Mayor wants Trump to delay Phoenix rally

[OraLabora]

None of your sites work, i.e., for the Washington Post there is no page to be found.

Try this one:

washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/08/16/president-trumps-false-claim-that-counter-demonstrators-lacked-a-permit/

or this one:

scribd.com/document/356483336/2017-Public-Demonstration-Unity-and-Love-Free-Speech-August-12-2017Certificate-of-Approval

 

[josie_L]

Try this one:

washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/08/16/president-trumps-false-claim-that-counter-demonstrators-lacked-a-permit/

or this one:

scribd.com/document/356483336/2017-Public-Demonstration-Unity-and-Love-Free-Speech-August-12-2017Certificate-of-Approval

They had a permit to hold their own rally, but they protested at and physically disrupted another rally, which there is no permit for, nor do they have the constitutional right to do.

I was referring to Emancipation park where the “Unite the RIght” rally was being held.

 

[J_Peterson]

There was no need nor did they have a permit, i,e, they did not need one to assemble in a public park, moreover, they physically disrupted another rally, which NO ONE HAS A PERMIT FOR.

Just to be blindingly clear here, here is an example of what was disrupted. Should this have been allowed with no dissenting voices present? The best you can say about these people is that they had a permit to march.

‘Sieg Heil’ and assault rifles: The president of Charlottesville’s synagogue described a harrowing scene outside the temple

“Several times, parades of Nazis passed our building, shouting, ‘There’s the synagogue!’ followed by chants of ‘Sieg Heil’ and other anti-Semitic language,” Zimmerman said. “Some carried flags with swastikas and other Nazi symbols.”

“This is 2017 in the United States of America,” he added.

Zimmerman described how he advised congregants to leave the temple through the back door, and that the temple was forced to take the “precautionary step” of removing their Torahs — including a Holocaust-era scroll — from the building.

 

[OraLabora]

They had a permit to hold their own rally, but they protested and physically disrupted another rally, which there is no permit for, nor do they have the constitutional right to do.

I was referring to Emancipation park where the “Unite the RIght” rally was being held.

The point is clear. Mr. Trump claimed they did not have a permit. Mr Trump either lied, or did not check his facts. Neither are particularly flattering to his competence.

Those are the facts.

Also clear, is that there is NO moral equivalency between opposing neo-Nazis, and the neo-Nazis themselves. Opposing nazis or fascists, even with violence, has been a noble cause in the past. All of WW II was to fight nazis and fascists and the US was at the forefront of that fight. This is also a fact.

Now whether it was wise of the municipal administration to issue permits for two demonstrations of opposing camps in the same town at the same time, is something that we can debate.

 

[randomuser]

Just to be blindingly clear here, here is an example of what was disrupted. Should this have been allowed with no dissenting voices present? The best you can say about these people is that they had a permit to march.

‘Sieg Heil’ and assault rifles: The president of Charlottesville’s synagogue described a harrowing scene outside the temple

And just so everyone is clear, his refusal to condemn this vile act of hatred is that any “pro-life” legislation will now be in jeopardy: why would Congress approve any more of his SCOTUS picks knowing they could be BFF’s with these neo-Nazi losers? That’s what’s at stake here: the unborn babies that won’t get saved because of Trump’s mouth.

 

[josie_L]

Just to be blindingly clear here, here is an example of what was disrupted. Should this have been allowed with no dissenting voices present? The best you can say about these people is that they had a permit to march.

‘Sieg Heil’ and assault rifles: The president of Charlottesville’s synagogue described a harrowing scene outside the temple

No, of course, not, but I am trying to make clear that they did not have a permit as so many are suggesting where the rally for the “Unite The Right” was taking place.

 

[Sy_Noe]

*The mayor of Phoenix, Arizona, issued a statement Wednesday night urging President Trump to delay his campaign rally in the city while “our nation is still healing” from the violence that took place in Charlottesville, Va.

“It is my hope that more sound judgement prevails and that he delays his visit," Mayor Greg Stanton (D) said in a statement, also saying he is “disappointed” with the president.*
thehill.com/homenews/administration/346903-phoenix-mayor-tells-trump-to-delay-his-rally

I had posted this last night on the Joe Arpaio pardon thread. I agree with the mayor if the President of the United States goes through with this campaign rally over 3 yrs until the next election and in the short aftermath of the terrible tragedy occurring in Charlottesville just last weekend that rocked our nation, and he goes to announce the pardon of Arpaio, he indeed will clearly be showing his true colors once again and his intent to further enflame and divide our nation.

 

[josie_L]

The point is clear. Mr. Trump claimed they did not have a permit. Mr Trump either lied, or did not check his facts. Neither are particularly flattering to his competence.

Those are the facts.

Now whether it was wise of the municipal administration to issue permits for two demonstrations of opposing camps in the same town at the same time, is something that we can debate.

From what I understand he meant that they did not have a permit to demonstrate at Emancipation Park where the “Unite the Right” rally was taking place.

If they had a permit for a rally, then I would suppose that it was meant to take place elsewhere, not on the exact same premises or for that matter at the same time?

My issue is that they physically disrupted the rally, i.e., it’s okay to protest at a rally, but you cannot physically disrupt it, no matter how much you disagree with said messages.

And let us be clear, the messages were repellent, but all Americans are accorded First Amendment rights.

 

[Joyful_Song]

Apart from the inane claims made, who is Democracy Now???

Inane- You just called me silly; stupid.
“don’t constantly badger people with inane questions”
synonyms: silly, foolish, stupid, fatuous, idiotic, ridiculous, ludicrous, absurd, senseless, asinine, frivolous, vapid;

But I won’t take the bait anymore.

I’m not the only one who is concerned and alarmed he defended white supremacists and blamed “both sides” for violence in Charlottesville, Virginia; has flirted with provoking a nuclear war with NK and failed to provide moral and issues leadership.

 

[josie_L]

Inane- You just called me silly; stupid.
“don’t constantly badger people with inane questions”
synonyms: silly, foolish, stupid, fatuous, idiotic, ridiculous, ludicrous, absurd, senseless, asinine, frivolous, vapid;

But I won’t take the bait anymore.

I’m not the only one who is concerned and alarmed he defended white supremacists and blamed “both sides” for violence in Charlottesville, Virginia; has flirted with provoking a nuclear war with NK and failed to provide moral and issues leadership.

No, I did not call you “silly”, I assumed those were claims made by “Democracy Now!”.

 

[7_Sorrows]

7Sorrows, that should tell you something that even fellow Republicans are up in arms against him.

Something that should of caught your attention, was when the business leaders left him after the protests. Many Trump supporters raved at the beginning of the year when Trump announced that he would set up a team that would find ways to help move the economy, but once these men started jumping ship, you guys went to the defense of Trump.

You can’t have it both ways. If you call Trump a smart man for picking the men and women that he does to their posts, and after a few weeks these people leave, you can not crucify these people and not blame Trump.

Trump picks them, Trump gets blame

Trump ran on draining the swamp and shaking things up in Washington and that is why he is met with resistance from all of these fronts.

 

[7_Sorrows]

From what I understand he meant that they did not have a permit to demonstrate at Emancipation Park where the “Unite the Right” rally was taking place.

If they had a permit for a rally, then I would suppose that it was meant to take place elsewhere, not on the exact same premises or for that matter at the same time?

My issue is that they physically disrupted the rally, i.e., it’s okay to protest at a rally, but you cannot physically disrupt it, no matter how much you disagree with said messages.

And let us be clear, the messages were repellent, but all Americans are accorded First Amendment rights.

No they did not have a permit for their own rally there or anywhere else.

Someone posted on one thread that counter protesters do not need a permit.
Perhaps if they wanted to counter protest they should have got a permit for
another location far away from the white supremists and then perhaps no violence
would have occurred and the young woman would still be alive today.

But I do feel the people with the permit had a right to protest the removal of the
Robert E. Lee statue. That was the original reason for the protest.
It is too bad the white spremists and neo-nazis had to be there to give a bad name to the people who wanted the statue to remain.

 

[Joyful_Song]

Trump ran on draining the swamp and shaking things up in Washington and that is why he is met with resistance from all of these fronts.

Drain the swamp -this phrase was repeated at rallies, in debates and television interviews, at town halls and in tweets until it became a sort of mantra.

A Trumpian swamp has been created with the already achieved goal of lining his own pockets.

vanityfair.com/news/2017/08/donald-trump-hotel-profits

 

[7_Sorrows]

From what I understand he meant that they did not have a permit to demonstrate at Emancipation Park where the “Unite the Right” rally was taking place.

If they had a permit for a rally, then I would suppose that it was meant to take place elsewhere, not on the exact same premises or for that matter at the same time?

My issue is that they physically disrupted the rally, i.e., it’s okay to protest at a rally, but you cannot physically disrupt it, no matter how much you disagree with said messages.

And let us be clear, the messages were repellent, but all Americans are accorded First Amendment rights.

They don’t want to listen to reasonable arguments.

 

[Zzyzx_Road]

The police were responsible for the escalation in Charlottesville. Crowd control 101 says keep the opposing protesters apart, says if one side can be evacuated safely away, then do so. That didn’t happen, instead of evacuating the protesters through the exit away from the antifa, the cops pushed the protesters toward the antifa and then stood back and let them have at each other.

Whatever happens in Phoenix is going to be watched closely. The cops who show up need to do their job properly, not push one group into another like they did in Charlottesville. The antifa need to restrain themselves, the alt right needs to police their own ranks and kick out the nazis. But I still think there will be agent provocateurs on both sides agitating for violence.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Drain the swamp -this phrase was repeated at rallies, in debates and television interviews, at town halls and in tweets until it became a sort of mantra.

A Trumpian swamp has been created with the already achieved goal of lining his own pockets.

vanityfair.com/news/2017/08/donald-trump-hotel-profits

While it’s good for citizen watchdog groups to be on the lookout, I note the following from Vanity Fair

1. It lives up to its reputation here
2. It actually cites hotels charging higher rates during a marquee event That’s what hotels do, and maybe if they are so worried they can do a story on how hotels near universities jack up prices when graduation comes around.
3. It concedes that even though there is litigation pending in the orbit of special interest conflict, it “faces an uphill court battle” despite citing later that the courts have been unfriendly to the Administration
4. It even notes the establishment swamp Trump talked about during the campaign is mostly if not completed drained.

All in all, they had to really labor to make their case.

 

[exnihilo]

The police were responsible for the escalation in Charlottesville. Crowd control 101 says keep the opposing protesters apart, says if one side can be evacuated safely away, then do so. That didn’t happen, instead of evacuating the protesters through the exit away from the antifa, the cops pushed the protesters toward the antifa and then stood back and let them have at each other.

Whatever happens in Phoenix is going to be watched closely. The cops who show up need to do their job properly, not push one group into another like they did in Charlottesville. The antifa need to restrain themselves, the alt right needs to police their own ranks and kick out the nazis. But I still think there will be agent provocateurs on both sides agitating for violence.

The police didn’t even try to protect that speaker who was attacked the day after the rally. If that is how they did things the day before no wonder violence broke out.

There are definitely agent provocateurs on both sides. The government always has a guy in on any plot.

 

[Joyful_Song]

Conscience of a Conservative: A Rejection of Destructive Politics and a Return to Principle
origin-mnr.barnesandnoble.com/w/conscience-of-a-conservative-jeff-flake/1126868508

 

[Amator_Dei]

While I disagree with many of Stanton’s policies and decisions, I think he is being prudent by encouraging Trump to wait. The country is inflamed and a one week announcement is ample time for protesters from around the country to descend on Phoenix. If Trump pardons Arpaio while he and a whole slew of protesters are there, there is the potential for violence. I am sure the good people of central Phoenix don’t want that, nor does the gorgeous basilica across the street from the rally.

 

[7_Sorrows]

The police were responsible for the escalation in Charlottesville. Crowd control 101 says keep the opposing protesters apart, says if one side can be evacuated safely away, then do so. That didn’t happen, instead of evacuating the protesters through the exit away from the antifa, the cops pushed the protesters toward the antifa and then stood back and let them have at each other.

Whatever happens in Phoenix is going to be watched closely. The cops who show up need to do their job properly, not push one group into another like they did in Charlottesville. The antifa need to restrain themselves, the alt right needs to police their own ranks and kick out the nazis. But I still think there will be agent provocateurs on both sides agitating for violence.

Phoenix is a huge city and I hope they will act more professionally and better trained.

I agree the police held a big responsibility for what happened on
Saturday. Knowing what I know about the mayor now, and the governor being Terry
McAuliffe, I wonder how high up the ladder the agent provocateurs are…