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fix
Guest
Uh huh. The idea that a prom is anything but heterosexual is contrived homosexualist agitprop.
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fix
Guest
There is nothing theologically incorrect about defending heterosexual cultural norms. I would dare say we have plenty of priests and Bishops today whose parents dated. Your position is simply one to attempt to minimize the serious wrongness of allowing homosexual young persons to act out in a way that is not consistent with the moral good.
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Dakota_Roberts
Guest
A dance is not a grave matter however all the the extremely common pre marital sex (plus the occasional abortion) after proms are .
The idea that we should even have high school proms is nonsense.
I didn’t say they are theologically incorrect.
People, people
Something can only be mortally sinful if it is a grave matter
Many couples have sex after prom, many others go with the hope of sex with the date
Fornication is a grave matter and go somewhere in the hopes of engaging in a sin is sinful.
Modern high school proms encourages the above which are sinful therefore as proms encourage no virtue, but often tacitly encourage immorality they should be ceased.
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surritter
Guest
What you are missing is that it’s not just the kiddies with carnal ideas who might be falling into sin. The administrators of a school are charged with protecting and instructing the student body. So they also bear a huge responsibility in the “norms” that they establish for school events, including… dances!
I’m not judging the administrators to be in mortal sin; I’m merely pointing out that the playing field of who can sin in the situation named by the thread’s topic is a LOT wider that you are stating.
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HansTrappist
Guest
This is an abomination and did cross the line. There can be no compassion for something that is objectively disordered.
Here is the infallible teaching of the Catholic Church on this matter:
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.
2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
2359** Homosexual persons are called to chastity**. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace,** they can** and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.
So, forget all that propaganda that you here from the “authorities” about homosexuals being “born that way”. Nonsense. The infallible teaching of the Catholic Church is that homosexuality is “objectively disordered”; it is as objectively disordered as a human being sexually attracted to a goat.
Msgr. Charles Pope has an excellent article on this very subject, “Reaping the Whirlwind: A reflection on the deepening darkness that celebrates homosexual unions and activity”. In part, he says (blog.adw.org/2013/03/reaping-the-whirlwind-a-reflection-on-the-deeping-darkness-that-celebrates-homosexual-unions-and-activity/):
We heterosexuals have been involved in a down spiraling series of distortions and sexual misbehavior for over fifty years now. And this misbehavior is widespread and even celebrated in our culture.
Add to this terrible picture, the scandalous silence of pulpits, the shrugging over flagrant fornication, cohabitation and high divorce rates by Church leaders, parents, and other community leaders.
Yes, we have sown the wind. And now comes the whirlwind. Enter the “gay” community who have in effect called our bluff and illustrate the absurdity of our “no-necessary connection” philosophy. For, if sex has “no necessary connection” to procreation, and can just be about what pleasures you, or is just your way to show “care” for another, if this is the case, what’s wrong with homosexual behavior? And if marriage is just about two adults being happy and there is “no necessary connection” to procreation, why can’t homosexuals “marry”?
We heterosexuals have misbehaved for over fifty years now, and, in process dispensed widespread confusion about sex and distorted its purpose. We have loved the darkness, and now the darkness deepens with the obvious absurdity of homosexual “marriage” a misnomer before it is even uttered. But so is contraceptive marriage.
Is Homosexual activity disordered? You better believe it. But so is contraceptive heterosexual activity since it is no longer ordered per se to procreation. In fact, it is rightly argued that contraceptive sex is really just mutual masturbation, it is not true or ordered human sexual activity at all. It is disordered, for it is not ordered to its proper end.
The grave disorder of homosexual acts and the equally grave celebration on them in our culture is a very deep darkness. Scripture calls homosexual activity παρὰ φύσιν “para physin” (contrary to nature – cf Rom 1:26). Any cursory examination of the structure and design of the human body (which is revelation) makes it clear that the man is not for the man, the man is for the woman. The woman is for the man, not another woman. Having eyes do you not see, and having ears do you not hear? (Mk 8:18)
In Romans 1:17ff St. Paul and the Holy Spirit describe a culture that has gone very dark. For the men of St. Paul’s day “suppressed the truth by their wickedness” (v. 18). And this suppression of the truth led to an ever deepening darkness wherein their thinking became futile and their senseless minds were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools (vv 21-22). And darkness led to depravity wherein: God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth about God for a lie…Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in their bodies the due penalty for their error. (v 24-27).
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Dakota_Roberts
Guest
Sadly the administrators can not protect them from society and the media.
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surritter
Guest
But the administrators ARE obligated to set an example and defend the truths of the Faith. Sadly, they failed to do so in this case. Read the previous post from HansTrappist.
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fix
Guest
That is not the issue. The issue is those in authority encourage those with homosexual inclinations to attend a dance as if they are a couple. Encouraging such a thing is not consistent with the moral law.
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Elizabeth502
Guest
But it’s a construct which affects the practical communication, perception, expectation, and reality of high school students today, 2013. The model of “a couple,” including that which is supported and “celebrated” publicly (such as at a Prom or other dance) is recognized as an implicitly sexual attraction, whether or not that is chaste in intent and not necessarily any indication of future activity.
I think that’s what fix is trying to communicate, unless I misunderstand him.
It’s an affirmation and a “normalizing” or mainstreaming of an attraction which the Church herself defines as non-mainstream and “disordered.” There’s an obvious conflict there, between teaching and practice.
Very different from a non-coupled social event, in which students might be invited to bring “some friends,” “all their friends,” or even one friend – and in that case no sexual attraction would be implied.
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Dakota_Roberts
Guest
Why is it acceptable for society to force us to communicate in some ways, but we can’t communicate in terms they can understand what the Church teaches?
Okay.
You are aware that regarding proms these days many people will show up not as couples, but with friends right? Mostly people go as couples because those tickets are a lot cheaper.
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Elizabeth502
Guest
Yes, I’m aware. The concept of “a couple” still holds as representative of attraction.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not super-worked-up about it. There are even more important and more specific battles for Catholics regarding the issue, particularly on the legal and educational fronts. However, these students are still Catholics in formation; they are not yet independent adults, and example and official policy are important modes of communication.
There is enough practical ambiguity in the Church right now, regarding teachings and practices, that it adds to the fog, where clarity is needed. Our new Pope just gave a talk on witnessing to the faith, and the clarity and courage that requires. What’s going on in this school is not, i.m.o., an example of what our Holy Father is encouraging. That’s all.
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fix
Guest
It is a cultural norm consistent with moral truth. Homosexual couples are not.
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fix
Guest
This type of obfuscation will not help. The truth is heterosexual attraction is not disordered. Dancing is not disordered. Dating is not disordered.
Claiming homosexual persons can pretend they are dating is disordered.
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estesbob
Guest
I have been told that “gender” is an artificial construct.
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Dakota_Roberts
Guest
Some of modern concept of gender is, some is not.
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estesbob
Guest
In you opinion. in my opinion all you have to do is look at someone naked to see their gender. there is not “construct” at all about gender. Its biology-not philosophy
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Dawnia
Guest
McQuad is an all boys school. With your reasoning, this shouldn’t be happening.
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Dakota_Roberts
Guest
That’s sex not gender. Sex is almost always obvious.
You forgot the ban proms part.
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Dawnia
Guest
Gotcha…I’d be okay with that.
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