NOTE: Rather long post, sorry. Couldn’t think of how to reduce it. lol!!
From my college days.
You don’t think it’s more fun to be “bad” than to be “good”? Maybe it’s better phrased that it’s much more difficult to do “good” than “bad” or do “the right thing”.
Again, what is the standard by which an athiest would define a “decent” person? Is there a standard of good and evil? If so, what is it, and is it objective? And how is it derived?
What is the standard by which a believer would define a person as decent?
I’m watching the FLDS cult news at the moment, the ones that marry off 12 year old girls in the US. These people are “religious” believe they are following a higher power, and that they must submit to Gods will.
I spent time in the US, and had the dubious privaledge of watching a KKK rally and listening to their venom. These people are religious, they are following a higher power and they believe they are submitting to Gods will.
Both groups believe that their standard is correct.
This may come of some surprise, or may make people extremely angry, but everyone is coming to the conclusion of what is 'decent" for themselves. People aren’t forced into christianity FOR the most part(many exceptions to that). They are making a personal decision that Christianity is the correct faith, and that the rules of christianity /their church are correct. It’s a choice the individual is making, hence the reason there are so many religions.
At the end of the day, everyone is making up their own mind, and a religious persons 'choice" in relgion is no different than my choice on what is moral.
If it’s based on cultural norms, then there’s no true objective moral standard i.e. murder of an innocent person could be OK in some existing or developing culture.
That’s exactly correct. Some people believe in a concept of a “just” war, other’s believe it is alway’s wrong to kill, even in the process of self-defense(buddhists).
The whole “objective” morality is a red herring. Each individual is CHOOSING what they think is the correct moral code. Claiming it is God telling you this, doesn’t change the fact that you have “decided” it’s correct.
Just like everyone else.
I’m not arguing against athiesm (in this thread, anyway
)but am having trouble understanding the motivation for being good for an athiest…and I don’t mean not doing things to fit in with a civilized society.
I’ll explain it in a simple way. If we all run around stealing off each other, then we will spend our entire lives protecting what we have, and not living.
If we all run around killing each other, then we spend our entire lives, fighting FOR our lives and not actually living.
I’ve seen people decapitated in the name of objective morality, I’ve heard of people being stoned to death in the name of objective morality. I’ve read books written by adults who were sexually and physically abused in the name of objective morality.
The question I have for YOU is, what is to stop some-one from behaving horrendously, if they believe their objective morality is correct and to question them is to question God?
I can stop terrible behaviour, even my own, because I understand what it may do to another. The idea of Objective morality has the potential to be very dangerous, because it gives people free license to do what they want, as long as it’s a part of their faith.
IE…what’s to stop peolpe using “GOD” to do the wrong thing?
Answer…nothing at all.
Back to the feeding the hungry person; why bother? It’s no skin off my neck if they’re hungry or not, or if they die from hunger…one less person to feed, one less person that I’m taxed for “Are there no poor houses?”
Why try and help anyone if you know that they are going to heaven anyway? I mean if they die sooner, they go to paradise sooner? why bother?
Why do YOU help some-one, if the reason has nothing to do with heaven?
Honestly, I don’t think that the “faithful” and those that lack faith will ever truly understand each other. But you can come across many non-believers in your life, and you will notice that most of them are good people, just like most believers.
You may be “concerned” that athiests will go nuts and not care for anyone. I’m concerned as I watch the world go back to religious fundamentalism since I know where that can lead.
There is “nothing” to stop either camp from becoming horrible, other than the people themselves.
If you would, please, explain to Ebenezer Scrooge from an athiests perspective why one should be “decent” to other humans in need.
Because we know what it is like to suffer pain, and we cannot stand by and let another experience if we can avoid it. It is called empathy, and all human beings have the potential to feel this. many do not, and religion doesn’t really have anything to do with it.
Our morality, is most probably biological, along with cultural.
BTW, I take issue with the notion that the God of Christianity doesn’t/won’t help people in need or in pain.
Since you don’t believe he exists, how can you comment on his MO?
If he doesn’t exist, he’s hardly helping people is he? lol
