Meaning in life for an atheist

[crowonsnow]

I have no idea what you mean by this… explain again the meaning of life to an athiest. love of Neighbor? to what end?

If life must have an “end goal” to have meaning, what is the meaning of your god’s existence, your god’s life? Does your god lead a meaningless existence, or what is its purpose?

You are incorrect in implying that Catholics such as myself are motivated to love God and Neighbor solely as a means to get to heaven.

Then why do you do it?

And how do you **know **that Gods are not real?

The same way you know that Zeus and Odin and Chak are not real. I’m presuming you are not henotheistic.

 

[paul_c]

If life must have an “end goal” to have meaning, what is the meaning of your god’s existence, your god’s life? Does your god lead a meaningless existence, or what is its purpose?.

God is pure love and pure truth. He is the creator of heaven and earth.

Then why do you do it?.

I love God because I am compelled to do so. I can’t explain it adequately to you but every day this love grows and I feel a need to get closer and closer to God. This love of God spills out into love of Neighbor. I feel an increasing need to serve my neighbors, not because of any future reward but just because doing the right thing for its own sake is becoming more and more a part of my existence.

The same way you know that Zeus and Odin and Chak are not real. I’m presuming you are not henotheistic.

I’m sorry, but you paid absolutely no attention to what I wrote in my last post. Knowing that Zeus or Odin or Chak is not real, has nothing to do with understanding that there must be a God, creator of all things. You can see the fruits of his labor. If you know anything about science and philosophy you can ascertain the basics. Order can not spontaineously come from disorder, but requires intelligence and power to create and maintain. We call the source of this intelligence and power God. While there may be discussion on the nature of God (which I’ll save for another day), the fact that God exists has been shared by most men over time. This is because his existence is so obvious and that God draws all men to himself.

 

[Dameedna]

the fact that God exists has been shared by most men over time. This is because his existence is so obvious and that God draws all men to himself.

It is not a fact, it is a hypothesis that has yet to be proven.

And for every philisophical argument, that points toward a creator, there is another one that counters it.

We simply don’t know.

 

[crowonsnow]

God is pure love and pure truth. He is the creator of heaven and earth.

You haven’t answered the question, unless your god simply exists as an explanation for your feelings and for the universe. Is that all it is? Beyond that your god has no purpose or meaning? Is that correct?

I love God because I am compelled to do so. I can’t explain it adequately to you but every day this love grows and I feel a need to get closer and closer to God. This love of God spills out into love of Neighbor. I feel an increasing need to serve my neighbors, not because of any future reward but just because doing the right thing for its own sake is becoming more and more a part of my existence.

Does your god compel you or do you compel yourself?

Order can not spontaneously come from disorder, but requires intelligence and power to create and maintain. We call the source of this intelligence and power God.

I assume your god is ordered, intelligent and powerful. Where did this intelligence, order and power come from, or did these things just happen to exist as part of your god, no explanation needed?

 

[paul_c]

You haven’t answered the question, unless your god simply exists as an explanation for your feelings and for the universe. Is that all it is? Beyond that your god has no purpose or meaning? Is that correct??

I’m not sure what you are driving for here. Is creator of the universe insufficient as a purpose for you?

Does your god compel you or do you compel yourself??

I don’t know how to distinguish that.

I assume your god is ordered, intelligent and powerful. Where did this intelligence, order and power come from, or did these things just happen to exist as part of your god, no explanation needed?

God exists outside the universe and time, his creations. He told Moses, I AM who AM, indicating the eternity of his existence.

 

[paul_c]

It is not a fact, it is a hypothesis that has yet to be proven.

And for every philisophical argument, that points toward a creator, there is another one that counters it.

We simply don’t know.

What is an argument that counters the existence of God? i.e., that God CAN’T exist…

 

[Dameedna]

What is an argument that counters the existence of God?

Well, for me to counter an argument, you actually have to give one

God is your hypothesis. Show me why you believe it is proven, and I will give you a counter to it.

As I’m sure you are aware, it’s an age old debate

 

[paul_c]

Well, for me to counter an argument, you actually have to give one

God is your hypothesis. Show me why you believe it is proven, and I will give you a counter to it.

As I’m sure you are aware, it’s an age old debate

Yes, it is an age old debate. I included my arguments on post 59: And how do you know that Gods are not real? Where is your proof of that? How do explain how the laws of physics exist without a lawmaker? How do you explain how the universe has order without an intelligent and powerful entity to create that order? Have you any examples where order came spontaneously form disorder ? Can you explain conscience without a god? Or life? Sure, you can’t see God with your senses. Nor can you see wind or air. But you can see the works of all of them…

 

[Fran65]

We simply don’t know.

Actually you may find that while you don’t know, I do, as do many others.

Its a subjective knowledge, a gift if you like.

It does not matter that God’s existence has not been proved to your, or to anyone else’s satisfaction using empiricism.

Scientific evidence simply does not apply in the case of God.

 

[Dameedna]

Yes, it is an age old debate. I included my arguments on post 59: And how do you know that Gods are not real?

Gods? I need to know which gods you are talking about before I can answer.

Where is your proof of that?

I do not need to prove anothers hypothesis wrong. That’s the beauty and honesty of science. If you make a claim, you have to prove it as true. It’s your theory. You prove it and if you can’t don’t waste my time on your ideas , dreams or problems.

How do explain how the laws of physics exist without a lawmaker?

I can’t. There are many arguments around this also and philisophical debates, but I simply don’t know.

I’m pretty sure however, that the laws of physics and biology do not allow people to get up and walk around after they die.

There is a huge difference between the mystery of our universe, and the tribal and ignorant understandings of nature written in a book 2000 years ago.

How do you explain how the universe has order without an intelligent and powerful entity to create that order?

How does one explain a God that is intelligent and powerful without an enity to explain it?

Oh wait, tha’ts the first CAUSE argument. Something had to cause it. The universe alway’s existed in one form or another.

No? You seem to accept that God has alway’s existed, why not the universe?

Have you any examples where order came spontaneously form disorder ?

Yes. I’m living proof of it so are you .

Can you explain conscience without a god?

Can you explain God.

Or life? Sure, you can’t see God with your senses. Nor can you see wind or air. But you can see the works of all of them…

No, what I see is people who percieve a world they do not understand and create a hypothesis that something did it.

What I see around me is a universe. I have no idea how it came into being or why, if there even IS a why.

What I see, is a lot of humans who struggle with this question and rather than sit with the recognition they simply do not know, they invent ideas and claim them as truth.

That is what I see.

 

[Dameedna]

Actually you may find that while you don’t know, I do, as do many others.

Its a subjective knowledge, a gift if you like.

It does not matter that God’s existence has not been proved to your, or to anyone else’s satisfaction using empiricism.

Scientific evidence simply does not apply in the case of God.

Which basically leaves the world open to the concept of…

I know it’s true, therefore it is.

Makes the world rather narcisistic,

 

[Fran65]

It only applies the existence of God and the truth of His Word.

Narcissicts places self above all else.

Catholics place God above all else.

I think you’ll find that we are not narcissists.

 

[Dameedna]

It only applies the existence of God and the truth of His Word.

A human claiming a truth is meaningless.

It is what it is. A human…making a claim.

 

[paul_c]

Dameedna,
I’m sorry, but you put absolutely no thought into your post.
First of all, your precious science allows you to know the universe has a beginning. It can even point to when it happened. From this source on the big bang: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_bang

Extrapolation of the expansion of the universe backwards in time using general relativity yields an infinite density and temperature at a finite time in the past. This singularity signals the breakdown of general relativity. How closely we can extrapolate towards the singularity is debated—certainly not earlier than the Planck epoch. The early hot, dense phase is itself referred to as “the Big Bang”, and is considered the “birth” of our universe. Based on measurements of the expansion using Type Ia supernovae, measurements of temperature fluctuations in the cosmic microwave background, and measurements of the correlation function of galaxies, the universe has a calculated age of 13.73 ± 0.12 billion years

So its clear that scientific method demonstrates that the universe did have a beginning. It is further obvious that great power and intelligence was necessary to put such an event in motion. Our name for this in english is “God.”

This particular point is extremely lazy intellectually:
Quote:
Have you any examples where order came spontaneously form disorder ?

Yes. I’m living proof of it so are you .

Actually, you did not come into being spontaneously. I’m sure you don’t need the sex ed lecture…

Finally, in response to my quote:
How do explain how the laws of physics exist without a lawmaker?

**You said:
I can’t. There are many arguments around this also and philisophical debates, but I simply don’t know.

I’m pretty sure however, that the laws of physics and biology do not allow people to get up and walk around after they die.**

You are absolutely right. They don’t. And that’s why when Jesus rose from the dead, we were forced to acknowledge that he was the SON OF GOD, as he claimed… And that’s why the people who witnessed his resurrection were willing to die for what they saw, rather than to denounce it…

 

[Dameedna]

Dameedna,
I’m sorry, but you put absolutely no thought into your post.
.

I will accept you disagreeing with me

Cheers
Dame

 

[crowonsnow]

I’m not sure what you are driving for here.

You earlier stated:
paul c:

I see no equivalent meaning in life for an atheist. Without an end goal, how can life have any meaning at all?

So I’m attempting to communicate and pehaps get you to understand that a life can in fact have meaning and purpose without a god. It’s only natural for me to ask you to think about the meaning and purpose of your god’s life.

You’ve indicated so far that the purpose of your god’s existence, it’s life, is to get us to love it and for it to be the source of everything else that exists. But your god was allegedly around before anything else. What was its meaning and purpose before it made all this other stuff that I assume you believe it can get along without? Or was its life meaningless and without purpose? If not, how not?

And how do you explain gods without a godmaker?

 

[crowonsnow]

Scientific evidence simply does not apply in the case of God.

You are implying that only unscientific evidence applies. Ouch! I called you on that before.

 

[paul_c]

You earlier stated:

So I’m attempting to communicate and pehaps get you to understand that a life can in fact have meaning and purpose without a god. It’s only natural for me to ask you to think about the meaning and purpose of your god’s life.

You’ve indicated so far that the purpose of your god’s existence, it’s life, is to get us to love it and for it to be the source of everything else that exists. But your god was allegedly around before anything else. What was its meaning and purpose before it made all this other stuff that I assume you believe it can get along without? Or was its life meaningless and without purpose? If not, how not?

And how do you explain gods without a godmaker?

Okay. Fair questions. But first of all, I didn’t say that the purpose of God’s existence is for us to love it. As the creator of all things, God needs nothing from us. He created us out of love and by my definition of love (doing things for people without expecting anything in return), he loves everyone. For instance, the sun shines on you even though you don’t believe in God.

I did say that at the very least, his purpose was to be the source for all that exists. There may be more, I don’t know but that in itself is pretty important. As for what he did before that, well before that, there was no time. As for who made God, well, no one did. He is the alpha and the omega, the first and the last. As he told Moses, " I am who Am…

 

[paul_c]

You are implying that only unscientific evidence applies. Ouch! I called you on that before.

That’s not what (s)he said. The point is God can’t be measured directly. An entitiy capable of creating the universe is way too great to be measured by us simple humans. We can, however, measure his works. We can trace back the start of the iniverse 13.7B years ago. We can extrapolate where it started. we can see that they whole universe follows a consistent set of laws (like gravity) and is built of a set of common subatomic particles, all organized in consistent and predictable patterns. When you look out around you , you can see the majesty and creativity of God in his creations.

Or you can choose to believe that all this came together out of random chance (never bothering to calculate the odds), because you personally haven’t seen God and are incapable of extroplating his existence from his works (but I’m sure you can extrapolate the existence of air, which you also can’t see, but what it does)…

 

[crowonsnow]

Or you can choose to believe that all this came together out of random chance …

I’m asserting that this is exactly what a god is, something that just happens to exist. If a universe needs a maker, why doesn’t a god?

So claiming there’s a god still doesn’t answer the fundamental question.