Medjugorje bishop: reported apparitions are 'not credible' [CC]

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I make no judgment on this one or the other since it’s not up to me
 
I’ve read some of the bishop’s other arguments against the apparitions. All of them come across as being pretty weak in comparison to 35 years of good fruit from Medjugorje. Not to mention that the bishop’s arguments are easily refuted with a little research. If he doesn’t have anything more substantial, I’ll ignore his opinions.
 
ProdigalSun said:
People are free to go to Medjugorje but not in an official church capacity. Are you suggesting all these preists and Bishops are not acting in good faith!
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How are these priests and bishops acting in “good faith” when the visions haven’t been approved by the Vatican?

I prefer to take the Pope Benedict’s wise and cautionary advice. My priest and bishop also advise to wait until a decision is made and the Vatican makes the “official” statement. That’s the prudent approach.

It may very well be that the official statement confirms the visions but until that is forthcoming, it’s best to wait.

What if the visions aren’t confirmed by the Vatican? Then what is happening at Medjugorje and what type of spirit are the visionaries communicating with? What type of spirit have all these pilgrims been exposed to and revered?
 
Some have reported her as saying “I and my son” Mary would never place herself before her Son - whose handmaid she is! AYKM?

As Fr. Antoninus Wall, O.P. states: “In the scriptures, Mary has very little to say. She ponders everything in her heart. Nowadays, she never shuts up!” - a clear allusion to suspected false apparitions.

There is a reason that these incidents keep going and going and going - longer than the energizer Bunny: $$$ and the Church cannot test them while they are in progress, lest they approve something that later turns bad. The incidents must stop, but they just don’t.
 
ProdigalSun said:
In this I agree!
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Me too.

I lean towards the sceptical until the evidence points elsewhere. I expect the church to do the same.

I know good Catholic Croatians who would so dearly like the apparitions to be true and I pray for them.
 
From the other thread:

Some have reported her as saying “I and my son” Mary would never place herself before her Son - whose handmaid she is! AYKM?

As Fr. Antoninus Wall, O.P. states: “In the scriptures, Mary has very little to say. She ponders everything in her heart. Nowadays, she never shuts up!” - a clear allusion to suspected false apparitions.

There is a reason that these incidents keep going and going and going - longer than the energizer Bunny: $$$ and the Church cannot test them while they are in progress, lest they approve something that later turns bad. The incidents must stop, but they just don’t.
 
There are now three threads on exactly the same topic - methinks it is time for a merger.
 
ProdigalSun said:
You know without actually going to this small village it hard to explain to you the attarction and serenity you feel while their. For myself many miracles were given to me and was a major pull for me and many others to come back to the Church in spirit as well as the body.

ONe does not need to go here and experience anything to do with the apparitions if lyou do not want. One can just immerse themselves in the Catholic culture that permeates the place. Their are masses said eveyday all day in many differnt languages. Confessional all day long. Outdoor mass and adoration. Adoration is everynight as the sun goes down. It is truly amazing. THeir is no preaching about waht goes on with the apparitions and is not even close to what is so beautiful about the place. I recommend going and leave the apparitions aside. THe beauty and serenity of the place speaks volumes!
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I say this with utmost respect - having been to Medjugorje myself, I have found just as much of the “Catholic culture” and “beauty and serenity” you speak of in other places - Rome, Assisi, Cologne, Paris, one or two places in my homeland of Australia - places with no connection to apparitions of the Virgin Mary or other special supernatural activity.

I rather suspect that visitors to all such places likely take away from them precisely what they bring to them, and possibly see what they wish/expect/hope to see.
 
SAVINGRACE said:
How are these priests and bishops acting in “good faith” when the visions haven’t been approved by the Vatican?
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I cannot speak for anyone of them, but is it not possible that they are there to minister to the Catholic faithful there? If a priest can minister to the faithful on the battlefield without approving the fighting, surely the “Catholic culture” as described there could justify the presence of clergy, even if they were there for a Star Trek convention. Like was just mentioned, this is also the case in places like Rome.

One argument that should be ignored is the idea that one needs to experience it to have an opinion about this apparition. This is the same argument Mormons use for their apparitions. A visitor has too much investment to be unbiased. This is part of the value of pilgrimages, and why the Church is cautious in approving locations for pilgrimages.
 
1Lord1Faith said:
I’ve read some of the bishop’s other arguments against the apparitions. All of them come across as being pretty weak in comparison to 35 years of good fruit from Medjugorje. Not to mention that the bishop’s arguments are easily refuted with a little research. If he doesn’t have anything more substantial, I’ll ignore his opinions.
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Music to the ears of the crowd down under.
35 years of contempt for the legitimate authority of two bishops, and disobedience.
Easily refuted arguments? Some examples?
By ignoring his “opinions”, you’re contributing to the contempt and disobedience. Our Lord set up His Church for a reason, and Heaven doesn’t ride roughshod over Her. Just ask Fr Manfred Hauke, Louis Belanger, Patrick Madrid, Donal Foley et al. These people, and the rest of us “sceptics” and "enemies of “Medjugorje” base our convictions on good evidence.
Donal Foley’s book “Medjugorje Revisited” is an eye-opener.

Hopefully, Vicka has thought up a better excuse than the original one she gave to explain her flinching during one of her “ecstasies”.

All of the calls to holiness, Eucharistic Adoration, more frequent Holy Communion etc could quite easily come from the mouth of Satan. He’s quite capable of telling the truth when it suits him: sucking in good, but unwary/gullible/ determined to believe, no matter what, people for his long-term gain.
Division. “Diabolical” comes from two words which mean “to tear apart”.

PS
po18guy:
i missed your “I and my Son…” earlier
In case you don’t already know:.
When “she” said that, “she” was uttering a threat against Bishop Zanic regarding his attempt to move two disobedient Franciscans. The threat was something like: “If the bishop doesn’t change his attitude, I and my Son will strike him down”. Uttered by Heaven"? Sure!!!

If the incidents were to stop, the game would be up, and no more Medjugorje gravy train.
 
The living Magisterium is the means by which reported private revelations are evaluated. That living Magisterium is through the local bishop-ordinary of that place.

It is appalling how easily Catholics nowadays reject the authority of their own bishop, or their pastor and the pope. But you can see how it leads them to reject the authority of the bishop-ordinary of Medjugorje, Detroit, or other places where we don’t live. (There is another thread now about rejecting a decision of Detroit’s ordinary). This is part of the climate of anti-religious-authority, fostered by the media. This is the same movement that also causes some people to trust the National Catholic Reporter, and other Catholics to join non denominational churches, and still other Catholics to support conservative religious websites unapproved the website city’s bishop.

Any time people disagree with Church authority, they say “this is still under investigation, the Church has not made its ****final ****decision, so I will keep doing what I was doing.” I hear this about contraception, about lobbying for women priests, or about SSPX.
 
commenter said:
The living Magisterium is the means by which reported private revelations are evaluated. That living Magisterium is through the local bishop-ordinary of that place.

It is appalling how easily Catholics nowadays reject the authority of their own bishop, or their pastor and the pope. But you can see how it leads them to reject the authority of the bishop-ordinary of Medjugorje, Detroit, or other places where we don’t live. (There is another thread now about rejecting a decision of Detroit’s ordinary). This is part of the climate of anti-religious-authority, fostered by the media. This is the same movement that also causes some people to trust the National Catholic Reporter, and other Catholics to join non denominational churches, and still other Catholics to support conservative religious websites unapproved the website city’s bishop.

Any time people disagree with Church authority, they say “this is still under investigation, the Church has not made its ****final ****decision, so I will keep doing what I was doing.” I hear this about contraception, about lobbying for women priests, or about SSPX.
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The Vatican gave the authority to the Yugoslavian Bishops Conference. The CDF has said that the bishop of Mostar’s opinion is just that, his opinion.

The following are part the findings:
“On the basis of studies made so far, it cannot yet be confirmed that these matters concern supernatural apparitions or revelations. Yet the gathering of faithful from various parts of the world to Medjugorje, inspired by reasons of faith or other motives, require the pastoral attention and care, first of all, of the local Bishop and then of the other Bishops with him, so that in Medjugorje and all connected with it, a healthy devotion towards the Blessed Virgin Mary according to the teachings of the Church may be promoted. The Bishops will also provide special liturgical and pastoral directives corresponding to this aim. At the same time, they will continue to study all the events of Medjugorje through the Commissions.”
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It doesn’t seem like the bishop of Mostar is following the Commission’s recommendations.
 
1Lord1Faith said:
The Vatican gave the authority to the Yugoslavian Bishops Conference. The CDF has said that the bishop of Mostar’s opinion is just that, his opinion.

The following are part the findings:
On the basis of studies made so far, it cannot yet be confirmed that these matters concern supernatural apparitions or revelations. Yet the gathering of faithful from various parts of the world to Medjugorje, inspired by reasons of faith or other motives, require the pastoral attention and care, first of all, of the local Bishop and then of the other Bishops with him, so that in Medjugorje and all connected with it, a healthy devotion towards the Blessed Virgin Mary according to the teachings of the Church may be promoted. The Bishops will also provide special liturgical and pastoral directives corresponding to this aim. At the same time, they will continue to study all the events of Medjugorje through the Commissions."

It doesn’t seem like the bishop of Mostar is following the Commission’s recommendations.
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There may be recommendations the bishop is or is not following. That is not for me to decide. I bolded the crucial sentence in the quote.

Suppose many Catholics are going to a public college, where there is no nearby parish, when there is an orthodox, faithful and appropriate Catholic school available to them. The bishop has a responsibility to reach out and provide care and instruction to them as best he can, in this irregular situation. But that does not mean the Church regards Ohio State University as an equal alternative to Franciscan University of Steubenville.

Likewise, even if the bishop is criticized for failing to provide adequate pastoral care to that very difficult situation, that still does no mean it is prudent for the individuals to ignore the bishop’s recommendation towards a faithful Catholic school.

Pope Francis is requiring bishops to provide outreach and pastoral care to many Catholics in very irregular situations. That does not mean he considers it equally beneficial for a couple to live together outside marriage, or get divorced and remarried outside the Church. Even if a bishop fails to do outreach to couples living together, the pope’s recommendation to the couple is ****still ****not to live together or have sex outside marriage.
 
Catholic_Press said:
Bishop Ratko Peric of Mostar-Duvno, in whose diocese Medjugorje is located, has issued a public statement repeating his insistence that “there have been no apparitions of Our Lady in Medjugorje.”

More…
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Didn’t the Vatican study this and they were supposed to tell us their findings? Or did I miss it? I frankly think there are too many things that have been said by these apparitions that don’t add up, but I know people who have been there numerous times, and think they are real. My greatest worry is that when they finally say it isn’t really happening, many people will either leave the church or there will be a schism. Given all of the controversy around Pope Francis, if he is the pope to announce it, they will certainly refer to him as an anti-pope, and I could easily see a split happening. Lord help us.
 
How long did Our Lady take in giving the children at La Salette or Fatima?

Not 36 years, I can assure you. There are videos all over Youtube of these supposed “seers” breaking eye contact during their moments of ecstasy.

Each person gets 10 secrets? 6 people? That’s 60 secrets. For those who believe or not, Our Lady gave only 3 at Fatima and even then, 1 of those may or may not have been revealed in whole.

What could Our Lady be saying in 60 secrets over a running time span now of 36 years?
 
coco2 said:
Didn’t the Vatican study this and they were supposed to tell us their findings? Or did I miss it?..
…I could easily see a split happening. Lord help us.
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Pope Benedict set up a commission (in 2010?]; and eventually it handed its findings to the CDF. It’s now up to Pope Francis…

You’re right about the anti-pope labelling and they’ll use the fake “Prophecy of St Malachy” to prove it, along with “locutions” spread around the world by the false Irish “prophetess” Mary Carberry.
There’s also some suspect stuff which Melanie tacked on to her La Salette testimony, decades after the Apparition.
You may well be right about the split, as well. There are those who think that Heaven is bypassing/overriding the Church.

Based on my own experience of a fair few Medj. promoters: if a “non” is given, the howls of rage will rival what happened on November 9th and following.:eek:
 
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