Men Only - Effeminate Church Decor?

[tdandh26]

yea yea,
do you mean the pink flowers they use

 

[Caelicola]

mosher:

This is in contrast to older generations when there was marble and carved wood.

I have to admit that I have a strong affinity for marble… but I’m not sure how exactly it’s masculine… or if it is. I have some underlying disorder where I believe everything should be made of marble - the darker the better, usually. This has gotten me thinking, I think I hate carpeting in churches, I just never knew it.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

The cathedral in Los Angeles has a EDIT “non-traditional” version of the Blessed Mother. If this is a trend, then count me out!

olacathedral.org/

 

[Dr.Bombay]

catcher5:

Maybe too many flowers could be considered effeminate decor. Other than that, I think large, ornate churches with high altars, statues, crucifix, traditional pews, etc. seem more manly than modern chuches with plain walls and cushioned seats. The things that really make the Mass seem more effeminate are female ushers, female altar servers, females readers, females distributing communion, lack of men in the pews, and non-traditional music.

Flowers. BAH!

We’ve still got throngs of poinsettias (sp??) stacked (literally) on our High Altar to the top of the baldachino. Now really. It’s two weeks after Epiphany! Dump the Christmas flowers. It’s a beautiful High Altar, made of marble and wood and manly stuff. But you can hardly see it because it’s covered with sissy flowers. :nope: Though, I suppose it’s an improvement over the fake green Hobby Lobby plants that live on the Altar the rest of the year.

Then we have more poinsettias in front of the free-standing altar, and all the side altars. A bit of overkill if you ask me.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Lux_et_veritas:

It wasn’t me who said some parishes are too effeminate, it was a radio show host, and I can’t remember who. And, I didn’t know what he meant, so I thought I would ask guys here what they thought it meant to them.

What you describe, definitely sounds effeminate to me

No it did not offend me because it was effeminate. Hey I had to pick my jaw up off the floor! It was what? The closest think I could think of was Disney’s Fantasia with all the fauns and sylphs and cavorting pans and such. And when the dancers came in with bowls of incense, I expected to look up and see the crucifix replaced by a statue of Marduc. Now if they had had bowls of flower petals with vestal virgins scattering them - That is might have found effiminate.

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

brotherhrolf:

No it did not offend me because it was effeminate. Hey I had to pick my jaw up off the floor! It was what? The closest think I could think of was Disney’s Fantasia with all the fauns and sylphs and cavorting pans and such. And when the dancers came in with bowls of incense, I expected to look up and see the crucifix replaced by a statue of Marduc. Now if they had had bowls of flower petals with vestal virgins scattering them - That is might have found effiminate.

Just curious, when did you see this happen? Recent? If so, it sort of surprises me because several commentaries have come out - one most notable (or two actually) from Cardinal Arinze on the subject of liturgical dance in the west.

 

[Ahimsa]

Thepeug:

I think this is precisely the reason why a lot of men find eastern Christianity more masculine: aesthetically, it more closely reflects the “Church of the Fathers.”

So the Catholic Church would be the “Church of the Mothers”?

 

[contemplative]

HGTV regularly airs a show called 'Designing for the Sexes’It is quite interesting to see how men and women have decidedly different tastes.
Two years ago I selected a new paint for the master bathroom in my home. For two years I heard nothing but complaints about the color I chose from my DH. There was nothing ‘right’ about it.
Finally a respectful grace period has passed …my DH went out and selected a color he likes and he just put the first coat on tonight!
My point is that men have tastes of their own. Some are more vocal about what they llike ( or don’t like) !
Perhaps more men should be involved with arts & environment committees in their parishes.

Good question Diane…involve more men in the process of creating the right envrironment in church.

PS. Now it is my turn to complain about the paint color for two years.

 

[brotherhrolf]

Lux_et_veritas:

Just curious, when did you see this happen? Recent? If so, it sort of surprises me because several commentaries have come out - one most notable (or two actually) from Cardinal Arinze on the subject of liturgical dance in the west.

This would have been in the mid 90s. But it wouldn’t have stopped the good sisters.

 

[ComradeAndrei]

Yes, the Church needs to be more “patristic”. Women have made many very important contributions to the Church, but they always knew their place. Likewise, men have made very important contributions to the Church and have always known their place. Now, I see that sometimes their is a blur in the distinction of places.

 

[coyote]

Anyone here ever see one of the Baroque-Roccoco style churches in Europe?

Would that style be considered “effeminate”. I loved the visual drama and aesthetic liturgical richness of those churches.

 

[Thepeug]

Ahimsa:

So the Catholic Church would be the “Church of the Mothers”?

Obviously not. I also don’t mean to suggest that eastern Christianity (both Catholic and Orthodox) is somehow more theologically patristic; indeed, the renewal of patrisitc study in the western Church following Vatican II has helped eastern Christians rediscover the roots of some of their own theology. When I said earlier that the aesthetics of eastern Christianity more closely resembles the “Church of the Fathers,” I simply meant that a first-century Christian would relate to eastern ecclesiastical decor more easily than to the pastel-colored quilts and abstract art that one finds in some western Churches, if for no other reason than the fact that liturgical aesthetics have remained largely unchanged in eastern Churches since that time. Hope that helps.

 

[asquared]

mosher:

The problem is that we have banners that look like Martha Stewart banners with big white words with bubble lettering that say Celebrate or Hallelujia and cute angels and pretty saints in all of our churches. Banners and flags with spring depictions. I swear I go into some churches and it is like everything was created from Hobby Lobby or some other arts and crafts shop. I .

that is so 70s. our old church had a liturgical committee addicted to long polyester panels of various pastels behind the altar, which as a contrast to the ski chalet design of the church, was jarring and tacky beyond belief. Just threw away about a ton of old felt banners we found in the attic providing a home for rodents–had to call professionals to haul it away. I feel like our church has been exorcised.

browsing through a catalog for holy cards, bulletins, certificates and other “church art” stuff, which featured all kinds of abstract cartoonish images, my secretary (20 something) commented yesterday “It all looks so old-fashioned.” She was right, looked like something designed by a post V2 liturgy committee in 1974. Showed her the traditional catalog with traditional holy pictures and images, and she fell in love with it.

 

[buzzcut]

I was browsing a bookstore a while back and I saw a book “Why Men Hate Going to Church.” It’s a protestant book so may not be applicable. On the author’s website he says 61% of churchgoers are women, and only 39% men. I don’t know if decor has anything to do with it. Here’s the author’s website: churchformen.com/allmen.php

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

buzzcut:

I was browsing a bookstore a while back and I saw a book “Why Men Hate Going to Church.” It’s a protestant book so may not be applicable. On the author’s website he says 61% of churchgoers are women, and only 39% men. I don’t know if decor has anything to do with it. Here’s the author’s website: churchformen.com/allmen.php

This triggered more of what that radio talk show host said…

He acknowledged that fewer men went to Church and that for some it just didn’t seem manly enough. That is when he suggested that things being as “effeminate” as they were, it was not helping to get them to Church.

I only wish someone else reading the thread knows who said it, what program it was. It was just within the last 7-10 days and it was on Catholic Radio - either EWTN or Ave Maria

 

[Dorothy]

asquared:

that is so 70s. our old church had a liturgical committee addicted to long polyester panels of various pastels behind the altar, which as a contrast to the ski chalet design of the church, was jarring and tacky beyond belief. Just threw away about a ton of old felt banners we found in the attic providing a home for rodents–had to call professionals to haul it away. I feel like our church has been exorcised.

browsing through a catalog for holy cards, bulletins, certificates and other “church art” stuff, which featured all kinds of abstract cartoonish images, my secretary (20 something) commented yesterday “It all looks so old-fashioned.” She was right, looked like something designed by a post V2 liturgy committee in 1974. Showed her the traditional catalog with traditional holy pictures and images, and she fell in love with it.

 

[Dorothy]

Ooops, I clicked the wrong button!

What I was going to say that there is a parish near me who does those long polyester banners frequently. It must require quite a bit of work to get them up so high, and all it does is cover the beautiful brickwork that surrounds stunning stained glass windows right next to it.

I have even seen styrofoam wreaths (huge) covered with fabric (yellow silk) and with long streamers hanging down. They do this when there is no polyester fabric hanging there. This was done at Easter.

For Christmas they had about four foot tacky looking styrofoam cones and balls that were designed with white tulle and gold sequins, to look like angels. They had fabric wings in the back. There were about six of them in the altar area. A great distraction.

 

[Isidore_AK]

I think that as long as we use these ugly as sin buildings that were built during the idiocy of the 70’s & 80’s Men will have problems…

What we need is to get back to Churches that look Catholic. If can’t tell if the Church is Catholic from the outside (looking at the sign is cheating!) you have a problem. When the local parish looks just like the non-denom church down the street we have a serious problem.

Stone is what we need. Immovable stone alters. Murals (in a classical style) are great on the inside walls. The place needs to scream “I’m a Catholic Church”…statues of the Saints & Martyrs. A big freakin High Altar. No pastel blue carpet! No light blue wall panels! And someone please burn the pews & chairs with the matching blue upholstery! Wood & stone. Whitewash if you must. Alter rails & kneelers of wood.

The other big man-killer is the sappy koombayah music. Again, crappy 70’s folk music. What happened to the chant? The sacred polyphony? Please don’t use anything from the ‘Oregon Press’, I’m begging here!

 

[MrS]

Ahimsa:

So the Catholic Church would be the “Church of the Mothers”?

no… perhaps the Mother Of All Churches

 

[SnorterLuster]

Isidore_AK:

I think that as long as we use these ugly as sin buildings that were built during the idiocy of the 70’s & 80’s Men will have problems…

What we need is to get back to Churches that look Catholic. If can’t tell if the Church is Catholic from the outside (looking at the sign is cheating!) you have a problem. When the local parish looks just like the non-denom church down the street we have a serious problem.

Stone is what we need. Immovable stone alters. Murals (in a classical style) are great on the inside walls. The place needs to scream “I’m a Catholic Church”…statues of the Saints & Martyrs. A big freakin High Altar. No pastel blue carpet! No light blue wall panels! And someone please burn the pews & chairs with the matching blue upholstery! Wood & stone. Whitewash if you must. Alter rails & kneelers of wood.

The other big man-killer is the sappy koombayah music. Again, crappy 70’s folk music. What happened to the chant? The sacred polyphony? Please don’t use anything from the ‘Oregon Press’, I’m begging here!

Gee, I wish you would tell us how you really feel.

I will add that my church has a large painting of St. Michael, sword in hand, standing on lucifer, banishing him to hell. A very masculine image.