Men Only - Effeminate Church Decor?

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This is a good question Diane. I have not seen anything in our church that could be considered effeminate.
If the décor is inappropriate the pastor should do something about it. I guess we are fortunate to have a strong pastor who will not allow anything inappropriate to be used to decorate the church.

It seems the whole “effeminate issue” is nothing more than an excuse for men not to go to church. I guess for some not feeling “manly” is of greater concern than worshiping God.
 
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Isidore_AK:
I think that as long as we use these ugly as sin buildings that were built during the idiocy of the 70’s & 80’s Men will have problems…

What we need is to get back to Churches that look Catholic. If can’t tell if the Church is Catholic from the outside (looking at the sign is cheating!) you have a problem. When the local parish looks just like the non-denom church down the street we have a serious problem. :eek:

Stone is what we need. Immovable stone alters. Murals (in a classical style) are great on the inside walls. The place needs to scream “I’m a Catholic Church”…statues of the Saints & Martyrs. A big freakin High Altar. No pastel blue carpet! No light blue wall panels! And someone please burn the pews & chairs with the matching blue upholstery! Wood & stone. Whitewash if you must. Alter rails & kneelers of wood. 👍

The other big man-killer is the sappy koombayah music. Again, crappy 70’s folk music. What happened to the chant? The sacred polyphony? Please don’t use anything from the ‘Oregon Press’, I’m begging here! 😦
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I Second the motion.
 
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ComradeAndrei:
Sorry to the ladies out there, but really what the Church needs to do in order to stop the effeminization of the Church is put a stop to female alter servers, lectors, ushers, Communion ministers, and the non-traditional music. I agree with catcher5 in this.

Psychologically, women are just more “committee oriented” and/or willing to participate in things. Nothing is wrong with that, but that leads to the idea that women can do everything a man can do-which is of course wrong especially in Church. Church needs to be made a manly thing, and not with rediculousness but rather put the idea back into people’s heads that the Faith is a very manly thing. A man that is loyal to the Church and is faithful to Christ is much more manly and masculine to a much truer and finer point than the average oaf that watches football all day and makes a spectacle of his bodily noises.
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So what you are saying is that men are not really that willing to participate, but are more than willing to complain about how the women did what needed to be done?

I guess I always figured it better to participate than to complain and that serving God in of greater import than worrying about what is “manly” and who has forgotten “their place”. We should all be faithful and serve God and recognize that faith is both manly and womanly.
 
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Dorothy:
For Christmas they had about four foot tacky looking styrofoam cones and balls that were designed with white tulle and gold sequins, to look like angels. They had fabric wings in the back. There were about six of them in the altar area. A great distraction.
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least Easter old parish had these huge butterflies which looked like kindergarten class projects hanging from the ceilings. then the weather got warmer, they turned on the fans–and butterfly body parts all over church.
 
I participated in a men’s group where the priest was guided by a book that said the Mass and church attendance do present a very feminine “picture” to men. He gave for example the Latin countires where the men are far outnumbered by women at mass because of this perception. A Protestant critic of the Church in the 19th century said the Mass(then TLM) was fine for women but was not a manly thing.

I would have to say a man’s perception comes from his own father. My father was very adamant about Mass and therefore I am too. He HATED the changes of Vatican II from the loss of Latin, EMHCs, Communion under both species etc. He has been dead 21 years now so I can only imagine what he would think of female altar servers etc.

I think a lot of it comes down from the parents. I am in a mixed marriage and I think the stats are: if both parents go to church the kids will go as adults, if only Dad it is lower but if only Mom it went way, way down and if neither went then only 7% would go as adults. Sorry I can’t remember the numbers.

I don’t think we can ignore the priest. If the priest is “effeminate” do fewer manly men come? I heard it argued that there were/are so many gays in the seminary that it scares of the regular guys. Why would they be any less scary in the pulpit or confessional? The same host argued that the Church needs strong manly dads to be involved in the parish and when Fr. is out of line with going to activities with boys, tell him to knock it off.

When I was in a public JHS back in NYC there was a teacher I knew very little except for a few assemblies where we had a academic contest(I was a contestant) he hosted in front of the school. He was never my teacher but he came over to me the morning after conferences(where I helped direct parents to rooms so I could be in the honor society) and he said “I am so hurt you did not introduce me to your father.” I was 14 and just ignored him and it until the next semester when my father came home and told me firmly “Stay away from Mr. N_____” He came over to me to introduce himself and he is an oddball." Maybe Dad was overly protective and “judgmental” but THAT is what parents should have been thinking when all these abuse cases happened. Too many people would think oh wasn’t that nice that he BARELY knows my son but he is interested in our family. Unfortunately that is not alays a good interest.
 
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asquared:
least Easter old parish had these huge butterflies which looked like kindergarten class projects hanging from the ceilings. then the weather got warmer, they turned on the fans–and butterfly body parts all over church.
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LOL! Flying insects!
 
Isidore_AK
Stone is what we need. Immovable stone alters. Murals (in a classical style) are great on the inside walls. The place needs to scream “I’m a Catholic Church”…statues of the Saints & Martyrs. A big freakin High Altar. No pastel blue carpet! No light blue wall panels! And someone please burn the pews & chairs with the matching blue upholstery! Wood & stone. Whitewash if you must. Alter rails & kneelers of wood. 👍
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The other big man-killer is the sappy koombayah music. Again, crappy 70’s folk music. What happened to the chant? The sacred polyphony? Please don’t use anything from the ‘Oregon Press’, I’m begging here!😦
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Is this the type of church building you are looking for? There are still some around.
This is my parish…No stone altar though. But no koombayah music, strictly organ and great old time songs and chants. No G&P books. Ohhh, sorry the kneelers do have light paddings. The altar rails have beautiful cushions kneelers that were made by the womens altar guild. Click on the picture gallery. The organ you see in the picture of the choir loft is a small organ that will be moved to the Sacred Heart Chapel that is being built. A huge pipe organ will take its place.
 
That is a beautiful Church, Toby. I especially like the Sacred Heart Chapel and the Chapel of Our Lady. The pro-life section of the website is also inspiring.

On a side note, did you notice the news story on the website about Ferrari’s donation of $1.1 million dolars to Benedict XVI? I’m a Honda fan when it comes to Formula 1, but go Ferrari!
 
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TobyLue:
Isidore_AK
Is this the type of church building you are looking for? There are still some around.
This is my parish…No stone altar though. But no koombayah music, strictly organ and great old time songs and chants. No G&P books. Ohhh, sorry the kneelers do have light paddings. The altar rails have beautiful cushions kneelers that were made by the womens altar guild. Click on the picture gallery. The organ you see in the picture of the choir loft is a small organ that will be moved to the Sacred Heart Chapel that is being built. A huge pipe organ will take its place.
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Thats a BEAUTIFUL parish. I envy you. Except for the single ‘spanish mission’ parish (an ethnic Latino parish) most of ours look like protestant churches. The Cathedral is the only church that looks vaguely traditional, and it was butchered years ago…

I don’t mind padded kneelers…its the whole ‘must coordinate all the colors’ that bothers me. Cushioned kneelers are fine, I just don’t like it when they have a blue tile floor (beneath/around the altar), blue carpeting, blue wall paneling, blue kneelers, & blue seat cushions. If everything else weren’t color coordinated I wouldn’t mind so much. :puke:
 
Thepeug
That is a beautiful Church, Toby. I especially like the Sacred Heart Chapel and the Chapel of Our Lady. The pro-life section of the website is also inspiring
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The altar at our Lady’s Chapel was from an old dilapidated monastery that was being torn down. Our priest found out about it and he rescued it and one man from the parish refurbished it. Unfortunately the Sacred Heart Chapel has been torn down to make room for the church expansion. It was small and cramped with seating for only about 10 people. However, a new Sacred Heart Chapel is under construction next to the main church and should seat about 70-80 people. If you notice behind the altar in the old Sacred Heart Chapel there were some marble niches. That is for people that want to have their remains there after cremation. That will also be available in the new chapel but with more room for extra niches. That way the remains are always present when mass is offered. My understanding is that this is very common in England and some churches in the USA are now offering that to whoever prefers to have their remains there rather than at a cemetery.
 
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mosher:
I Second the motion.
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I third the motion!

Hey, everyone need to show up at my parish during lent. Out comes the statue of the scourged Christ. Skin peeling off the whole nine yards.
Masculinity at it’s finest! Shows just what Christ the MAN went through.
 
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Lux_et_veritas:
I had never heard before that some men feel that parishes are decorated in an effeminate manner, which allegedly (maybe subconciously) contributes to why some boys and men don’t come to Mass.

As a female, I never really thought about how men and women may perceive decorations used in Church and during liturgies and it recently shocked me when I heard someone - I think on a Catholic radio program say that some of the effeminate decorations need to go. I think it was in reference to getting young boys to have less difficulty wanting to be in Church. It is true that a large percentage of women are on liturgical committees which may be responsible for what is on the walls and floors and maybe that feminine influence may be there.and I’m just curious:

Do you see things that you consider effeminate in your parish? If so, what are some examples? Help me out here

:rotfl:
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Well, this is certainly going to be a stereotype, but I see a lot of effeminate things at church that kind of turn me off. Many of the priests don’t follow football or baseball and they don’t do much outdoors stuff like hunting, fishing, or hiking. They like talking about how people feel and community involvement and stuff that sounds like girlie talk to me.

Plus, I don’t have a problem with a crucifix in the church or statues of the saints or talking about hell and damnation and capital punishment (which incidentally, the Catholic Church still recognizes the state’s right to administer). Alot of the flowers and Risen Christ crosses and stuff like that just isn’t my cup of tea.

I think a lot of priests place a lot of emphasis on traditionally feminine decorations and feminine values and you get a kind of woosie feeling church that just doesn’t seem very attractive to a man like me.

Of course, that may be why I go to a Latin Mass or a Greek Orthodox liturgy. There’s nothing girlie about those Eucharists.
 
Not merely the decor.

Remember!! They abolished the Feast of the Circumcision!! With the circumcision, we know definitely that Jesus was male. Without it, the door is opened for the second person of the Blessed Trinity to “possibly” be of some other gender.

AND here are a couple of books to buy and read:

amazon.com/gp/product/0785260382/qid=1137716421/sr=1-4/ref=sr_1_4/002-3179456-7263215?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

Why Men Hate Going to Church (Paperback)
by David Murrow

List Price:
$13.99
39 used & new available from $7.49

amazon.com/gp/product/1890626198/ref=pd_bxgy_text_b/002-3179456-7263215?%5Fencoding=UTF8
The Church Impotent: The Feminization of Christianity (Paperback)
by Leon J. Podles
List Price:
$17.95

3 used & new available from $12.21
 
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SFH:
Well, this is certainly going to be a stereotype, but I see a lot of effeminate things at church that kind of turn me off. Many of the priests don’t follow football or baseball and they don’t do much outdoors stuff like hunting, fishing, or hiking. They like talking about how people feel and community involvement and stuff that sounds like girlie talk to me.

Alot of the flowers and Risen Christ crosses and stuff like that just isn’t my cup of tea.
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What do you mean they don’t follow football?!? You just said that they have Touchdown Jesus… 😃

 
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JKirkLVNV:
The cathedral in Los Angeles has a EDIT “non-trditional” version of the Blessed Mother. If this is a trend, then count me out!

olacathedral.org/
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Oh my gosh - is that her above the ‘bronze doors’? :eek:

I’m sorry, I know this is personal taste, but that Cathedral is the ugliest thing I’ve seen in a long time, with the exception, perhaps, of an ice sculpture-looking crucifix I saw in a picture once - looked like it belonged on a cruise ship buffet table.

I’m not a man, but give me marble floors, dark wood pews and thick molding, *Catholic *stained-glass windows (ones that display our Catholic faith with brilliant colors - not the ‘Protestant sunrise/sunset wheat growing in the fields with pastel colors’ windows), a gold tabernacle front and center behind the altar, a prominent *crucifix *above or behind the altar, and the heavy smell of incense lofting in the air and I’m in heaven before Mass even begins.
 
That “L.A.” figure above the bronze doors is supposed to be Our Lady?

If you had not told me, I would have reckoned it to be a Jedi Knight!

I guess the masculine bit could get carried too far… 😦
 
You know, since no one has mentioned it, the “old” churches would be insanely expensive to construct.

This book has a pretty good summary of why.
 
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tjmiller:
That “L.A.” figure above the bronze doors is supposed to be Our Lady?

If you had not told me, I would have reckoned it to be a Jedi Knight!

I guess the masculine bit could get carried too far… 😦
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I can just picture a certain cardinal, in a flowing black robe sneering, “I’ve waited a long time for this moment, my little green friend. At last, the Catholic Church is no more.” (Obscure Star Wars reference. Sorry.) :tiphat:
 
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Isidore_AK:
I think that as long as we use these ugly as sin buildings that were built during the idiocy of the 70’s & 80’s Men will have problems…

What we need is to get back to Churches that look Catholic. If can’t tell if the Church is Catholic from the outside (looking at the sign is cheating!) you have a problem. When the local parish looks just like the non-denom church down the street we have a serious problem. :eek:

Stone is what we need. Immovable stone alters. Murals (in a classical style) are great on the inside walls. The place needs to scream “I’m a Catholic Church”…statues of the Saints & Martyrs. A big freakin High Altar. No pastel blue carpet! No light blue wall panels! And someone please burn the pews & chairs with the matching blue upholstery! Wood & stone. Whitewash if you must. Alter rails & kneelers of wood. 👍

The other big man-killer is the sappy koombayah music. Again, crappy 70’s folk music. What happened to the chant? The sacred polyphony? Please don’t use anything from the ‘Oregon Press’, I’m begging here! 😦
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I concur! There’s nothing that screams effeminacy louder than the Oregon Catholic Press. Makes me want to slam the piano keyboard cover on somebody’s fingers. Grrrrrr. I’m feeling manly. Must go break someting. :mad:
 
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