MEN ONLY: Should women be ordained?

[Ambrose]

RobertinRSA:

I agree with you John. I am a male and voted yes!

Who are we (men) to say that woman are not allowed to be ordained as Priets?! It is not enough to say that woman may be ordained as deacons, if the church allows ordination of woman, then they must accept that they may be ordained bishops as well.

I just feel that a male dominant and sexist society, lends itself to woman abuse. A society like this perceives woman as a lesser sex and therefore says that it is acceptable for a man to abuse a woman as it is his right.

As long as we remain sexist, then we must accept that abuse statistics of woman will be high. To all the men that voted NO, think of your sister, wife, mother, etc and their rights in society!

Mary was very influencial in the growth of Christianity after Christ’s death. In fact the apostles were cowards at His passion - as only the woman were present.

If a woman has a sincere calling to the priesthood, how are we to say no - is that Christlike? Come on, we ordain priests who cannot get a degree at the seminaries - because that guy has a true calling and who are we to turn him away if God is calling him!!! Double standards here.

Anyway, just my view. Lastly, my President (Thabo Mbeki, South Africa), has done just this. We have a female deputy president. By the next elections in 2009, half of the South African government cabinet must consist of woman. A move in the right direction to liberate woman and put an end to this perceived rubbish that woman are lesser than men.

Thanks for reading and God bless.

WOW !

Looks like you’re fitting the square social-political peg in the round ecclesiatical hole and it ain’t gonna fit sorry to say. If the only criteron on who should be a priest is ‘anyone who feels called’ then we’re all in trouble. It’s amazing upon reflection some of the social mores that Christ broke. He drank water at the well with a Samaritan woman, he cured people on the Sabbath, he ate with tax collectors and sinners, all things someone of his stature would **never **do. You would think making a woman one of the twelve and passing authority to her would have been something easily done.

Think about ‘rights’ ?? Lets all think about becoming saints, isn’t that more important than sharing power or some worldy measurement of what we should be doing in this regard.??

 

[Lux_et_veritas]

Ambrose:

Looks like you’re fitting the square social-political peg in the round ecclesiatical hole and it ain’t gonna fit sorry to say.

:clapping:

This is what really gets me…

God is all knowing. He knows the number of hairs on your head, he knows what you are thinking, and even knows what will happen a thousand years from now because He si God.

Do people really think that God was not smart enough to know that this debate would be happening today? He could have easily had women amongst the apostles so that there would be no debate. However, it didn’t happen that way did it?

There are two choices: Trust the Church or trust yourself. Remember, this is the same Church that Christ instituted and the same Church that we profess to believe the Holy Spirit oversees. Why do people have so little trust in the Holy Spirit to guide the Magisterium? The Holy Spirit requires no protestors, no dissenters, and certainly doesn’t need women excommunicating themselves by getting “ordained” on a river in order to sway the Church one way or another on matters, especially one so well debunked by lack of foundation in the scripture or tradition.

If everyone went according to their own conscience, we would have everyone bumping into each other as they crossed paths heading in different directions. Jesus gave us the gift of the Papacy and the Magisterium to prevent this, to help us to form our conscience so that we have a good working compass.

People need to remember what Jesus represented: Simiplicity, Humility, Obedience, and Justice among others. He also represented Love and Mercy, but these other things go hand in hand.

 

[Bobby_A.Greene]

No.

 

[NetNuncio]

This is quite the pointless thread.

Our opinions are of no consequence. Those who wish to disagree with the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith are most welcome to. They, with the permission and in the presence of the Sovereign Pontiff John Paul the Great, clearly stated in the Dubium ad Responsum that Ordinatio Sacerdotalis is to be definitively held by all the faithful. If those who wish women to be ordained insist on disagreeing with Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, now Benedict XVI, and his predecessors of most happy memory, then they are guilty of the sins of disobedience and pride and should refrain from Holy Communion, as they are in the state of grave error and mortal sin.

Now, before I receive personal attacks concerning this post, please keep in mind that I make it a strict point to never relay my own opinions on this message board, but serve as is my calling, as a lowly and unworthy messenger of the Deposit of our Divine Faith.

Adam

 

[starrs0]

I deeply feel that if people continue to not accept the Magisterial Teachings of the CDF and insist on pressing this issue with the Vatican Pope Benedict XVI will invoke Papal Infallibility and declare/define Ex Cathedra that women are not to be ordained which will forever close the issue. So keep pushing Liberals keep pushing you’ll only end up shooting yourselves in the foot. :yup:

 

[Ambrose]

starrs0:

I deeply feel that if people continue to not accept the Magisterial Teachings of the CDF and insist on pressing this issue with the Vatican Pope Benedict XVI will invoke Papal Infallibility and declare/define Ex Cathedra that women are not to be ordained which will forever close the issue. So keep pushing Liberals keep pushing you’ll only end up shooting yourselves in the foot. :yup:

What’s the saying: *Succisa virescit - “*pruned it grows again.” THE CASE IS CLOSED !!!

 

[DJMarshall85]

Please please PLEASE let this topic rest! It has been settled by the Holy Father! (And just because it did not follow the specific guidelines of Vatican I does not mean Ordinatio Sacerdotalis isn’t infallible. The Church has infallible teachings before Vatican I and after without those guidelines from VI.) It is impossible to ordain women, no matter what your personal opinion. Christ chose men for the sacramental/ministerial priesthood. Period. :banghead:

Pax,
Dean

 

[John_Higgins]

NetNuncio:

I make it a strict point to never relay my own opinions on this message board

DJMarshall85:

It is impossible to ordain women, no matter what your personal opinion.

Gentlemen,

That’s fine for what it is, but the point of this thread (however pointless YOU might think it is) is to survey the opinions of men here as to whether or not women SHOULD BE ordained, not if they COULD BE ordained. No reason to drag out Canon Law of your part or mine. It’s an opinion poll.

John

 

[dennisknapp]

John Higgins:

Gentlemen,

That’s fine for what it is, but the point of this thread (however pointless YOU might think it is) is to survey the opinions of men here as to whether or not women SHOULD BE ordained, not if they COULD BE ordained. No reason to drag out Canon Law of your part or mine. It’s an opinion poll.

John

Could you provide an example of how this could happen? Can you provide an argument from Scripture and Tradition that shows how women can be priests?

The reason I ask is because it is only from these two sources, interpreted by the Magisterium, that doctrine can be developed.

Peace

 

[Lazerlike42]

Something from a Brother just out of the Seminary that may apply to this and help people to understand why things are the way they are:

The reason for calling God Father is twofold. 1. Beause Jesus reveals God and He called Him Father. That’s the short and sweet version. 2. The more detailed version: God is present to the world in transcendence and immanence. Transcendence is a reference to His superiority over the world, His standing over and above His creation. Immanence refers to God’s closeness to creation, His being a part of it. Now God is both transcendent and immanent with His creation but clearly His transcendence is greater. You wouldn’t want to emphasize His immanence because that would basically lead to paganism. We emphasize God’s transcendence because He is much, much greater than His creation and in fact cannot be compared to it. When we look at masculine and feminine we note that the masculine transcends his creation. The Father gives his seed and then stands back over and above and separate from his creation, i.e., the child. The feminine stands with her creation, she is immanent with the child. The child grows in her. Therefore when you emphasize transcendence you must refer to the masculine. This is why God must be called Father. Note how pagan religions always have priestesses. Its not a coincidence that those who emphasize God’s immanence always end up in paganism with priestesses.

 

[CJE]

John Higgins:

Gentlemen,
That’s fine for what it is, but the point of this thread (however pointless YOU might think it is) is to survey the opinions of men here as to whether or not women SHOULD BE ordained, not if they COULD BE ordained. No reason to drag out Canon Law of your part or mine. It’s an opinion poll.

That’s exactly the problem. Our opinion on this matter, DOES NOT MATTER. If I think the sky should be purple, that does not mean that God will make it so. The same holds true here.

 

[Vidar]

John Higgins:

I am over 50 and I voted yes. Ordinatio Sacerdotalis is not infallible under the Vatican I rules of infallibility, and I wouldn’t be all that surprised to see female deacons in my lifetime.

John

Does the Church have the authority to create a new sacrament? Does it have the authority to consecrate a lamb instead of bread and wine? If not, why not?

We have no record of Christ authorizing the Church to alter the matter of his sacraments, or to ordain women, or create new sacraments. Nobody in the Church has the authority to ordain women. Not even the pope.

 

[Church_Militant]

When His Holiness said that the church does not have the authority to change this, that settled the matter. It is not open to anything more than futile and useless debate. I think Vidar has it right.
Pax tecum,

 

[estesbob]

John Higgins:

I am over 50 and I voted yes. Ordinatio Sacerdotalis is not infallible under the Vatican I rules of infallibility, and I wouldn’t be all that surprised to see female deacons in my lifetime.

John

Remids me of the story of the man who asked God:

Will married men ever be ordained. God answered “not in your lifetime”. He then asked will women ever be ordained? God answered “not in my lifetime”.

You have a serious misunderstanding of Church doctrine if you believe that there is any chance women will be ordained. The Church has been crystal clear on this for 2,000 years and the answer is NO!

 

[Steve_Andersen]

maklavan:

…The poll confrimed my suspicions that it is women themselves who oppose the ordination of women.

since that poll is obviously not a random sample but represents a self selected group of (a.) people who choose to visit these forums, (b.) people who choose to respond to the poll, and (c) men who chose not to observe the honor system women only basis of the poll. It is probably not worth the electrons it is printed with (as is any internet poll)

maklavan:

Which woman would go to Confession to another woman and reveal her faults to her, or take advice from her? Now let me get my tin hat on!

You take advice from someone you trust who has something worthwhile to say…what does their gender have to do with it?

in fact if you want to resort to stereotypes it is men who are the irascible, laconic types who won’t even ask for driving directions

Since women currently largely outnumber men in the schools of law, medicine, and theology the future of who we take advice from in these areas is already pretty clear.

I cannot even begin to grasp what the concern is with the ordination of women

 

[dennisknapp]

Steve Andersen:

since that poll is obviously not a random sample but represents a self selected group of (a.) people who choose to visit these forums, (b.) people who choose to respond to the poll, and (c) men who chose not to observe the honor system women only basis of the poll. It is probably not worth the electrons it is printed with (as is any internet poll)

You take advice from someone you trust who has something worthwhile to say…what does their gender have to do with it?

in fact if you want to resort to stereotypes it is men who are the irascible, laconic types who won’t even ask for driving directions

Since women currently largely outnumber men in the schools of law, medicine, and theology the future of who we take advice from in these areas is already pretty clear.

I cannot even begin to grasp what the concern is with the ordination of women

I have started a thread that deals with the Scriptural and Traditional support of women’s ordination.

It is here:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=66728

Peace

 

[Steve_Andersen]

yes, I saw that, thank you

but since the scriptures were written by men at a time and place not known for its egalitarianism I doubt you’re going to find many first century writings that would make good Anne Murray lyrics.

 

[twiztedseraph]

It would never work considering that though they would be “ordained” no sacramental character would be conferred and their “ministries” would be an affront to God. We know God loves all humans equally, none is more important in His sight. But for some unknown reason He chose a male priesthood. We are not to know the reason we are to submit to His decision, such is the essence of Catholicism, submission to a higher authority. Now I know alot of priest’s wouldn’t mind their ordination if it was possible which it isnt so lets let the topic down, 'cause these so called bible christians that allow women to be “ordained” yet don’t follow commands from St Paul and other apostles for an all male ministry, seem to be on our backs about it quite a bit.

 

[Steve_Andersen]

twiztedseraph:

It would never work considering that though they would be “ordained” no sacramental character would be conferred and their “ministries”

Why?
If they were ordained wouldn’t they be…ordained?

twiztedseraph:

…would be an affront to God.

Why would God be affronted that all of His children could now choose to serve Him?

…………. so lets let the topic down,

  No, thank you

'cause these so called bible christians that allow women to be “ordained” yet don’t follow commands from St Paul and other apostles for an all male ministry, seem to be on our backs about it quite a bit.

Who cares? Let them get the specs out of their own eyes and not worry about what they think of us.

 

[dennisknapp]

Steve Andersen:

yes, I saw that, thank you

but since the scriptures were written by men at a time and place not known for its egalitarianism I doubt you’re going to find many first century writings that would make good Anne Murray lyrics.

Then you know with the basis for practices and teachings becoming official within the Church, being what they are, that women’s ordination can never happen.

If it is not found in Scripture and Tradition it cannot be done.

Peace