MEN ONLY: Should women be ordained?

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dennisknapp:
I think there is a big difference between head coverings and women’s ordination.

One is a piece of cloth and the other is a Sacrament.

Peace
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Amen!
BUT, they’re both in Scripture, and they’re both in unbroken Tradition. Yet the church did not “develop its teaching in that regard”. That’s all. That rule was broken. That’s all.
Quit answering my posts, I’ll get no sleep!
Besides…99 posts ought to finish any thread.
Ok. One last thing:
Women cannot hear confession because they
NEVER FORGET ANYTHING BAD!
 
I refused to answer this poll because I don’t like the options that I was given. Try to be a bit more objective next time.
 
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TNT:
Alan, you ARE funny!
I just drink Barringer’s until it comes to me. I’m on my last 2 oz’s so I need to sign off.
Y’all keep that Doctrinal Development" on Steroids…we’ll get there.
God Bless the “Fruit of the Vine”
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:rotfl:

Once upon a time I think it was considered OK to have a “gay” party at which we drank the “fruit of the vine.” 😛

Of course you are excused; hopefully the stores are still open in your state. 👍

When they get the Flintstones to dub their theme song, though, I know those days are gone forever when we can use words to express emotions without sexual perversion ideas coming along for the ride. Oh gosh I can’t even write a sentence without, I mean, “without sexual perversion ideas being brought to mind by associated memories of alternat uses of the words.” There. Hopefully that is a safe way to say it. :whistle:

Whew! This political correctness can be hard work when it doesn’t come naturally! :yup:

Alan
 
Church Militant:
I think I have to agree with Scott!
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Yeah, I have a hard time with polls when the options are intimately connected to motives.

Sometimes I wish I could “pick and choose” which motives and which options go together for me, but alas I am not given that option as I have no authority to revise the questions of the poll to suit my personal tastes. Thus I have to take or leave them. Sometimes I answer the way I think I’m “supposed” to so as to avoid sin, and other times I just pick one that I think is the most hated of the options because I want to see the reaction.

I guess being confused over which poll option is the best can be as much a game as a disappointment. Luckily in this poll, my “real” choice – 40-50 and no, was combined by a motive I didn’t find too objectionable – my wife herself would not want women priests so as far as I’m concerned she represents “women” to me! Therefore I was able to cast a vote without either holding my nose or holding back my mischievious snickering!

Funny that, too. It never occurred to me to intentionally vote the “wrong” way on a poll, until some twit posted a poll and then totally went off on me for being the first one to vote “no” on it. I guess I had missed the part where it says, “the right answer to this question is yes and any other answers are not allowed.” Yeah, they said, in apparently earnest, “thanks for messing up my poll” and railed on about how I am careless and stuff. You know what was funny? All of a sudden a whole lot of other people voted with me. Guess that’s what happens when you vilify someone for being honest! 😉

Alan
 
I think the Church needs to start Excommunicating those that voice a desire to have women ordained they clearly aren’t accepting the authority of the Pope or the Magisterium and so thus aren’t truely Catholic so lets kick them out and be done with it.
 
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starrs0:
I think the Church needs to start Excommunicating those that voice a desire to have women ordained they clearly aren’t accepting the authority of the Pope or the Magisterium and so thus aren’t truely Catholic so lets kick them out and be done with it.
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That is so so so not “unity in diversity” of newchurch!
Besides, newchurch has restricted excommunication only to traditionalist members.
That enviable ecclesiastical authority has been given over to the writers of the Wanderer We must turn to them for any identification of those excommunicated OR schismatic.

Original
Hi-Priest of the Painful Truth
 
Well the Church needs to be fair and deal just has harshly with the far-left as it does with the far-right both are equally guilty of disobeying the Authorities.
 
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AlanFromWichita:
You realize, I suspect, that originally the term moot meant open for argument or debate.

In some contexts it means arguable, though not valuable. It used to be used to mean “practice” arguments that legal students would use that were arguable, but of no practical consequence.

Therefore, calling this moot, I choose to interpret using the context that we aren’t going to get anywhere but it’s something we can use to practice our debating skills.

Alan
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I thought moot meant not open for debate - I guess I was wrong.

My point was that this subject is not open for debate. Women cannot be ordained.
 
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Adonis33:
I thought moot meant not open for debate - I guess I was wrong.

My point was that this subject is not open for debate. Women cannot be ordained.
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It does, these days. It was just a trivia point I heard a philosopher make once, that the word has evolved in its meaning. 😃

You did not misspeak; I knew what you meant but I just wanted to show off that little gem. :o

I’m sorry if I embarrassed you. If so, “my bad” entirely. 😦

Alan
 
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AlanFromWichita:
It does, these days. It was just a trivia point I heard a philosopher make once, that the word has evolved in its meaning. 😃

You did not misspeak; I knew what you meant but I just wanted to show off that little gem. :o

I’m sorry if I embarrassed you. If so, “my bad” entirely. 😦

Alan
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No harm no foul.
 
Dear sir,
I ask that you read this post with charity. I am responding to your statements in your thread regarding Women priests. I understand what motivated you to post such a thread (after exclusion of males from a similar post). However, I believe that the purpose of that thread was to determine solely what the women’s perspect was, based on the argument that women support such an idea.

More importantly, I must respectfully disagree with you’re statement that men instituted the male priesthood. God alone did such a thing, through Jesus’ choice of apostles and finally through the traditions and writings of the Church. I am sure that you did not intend to seem disrespectful to the dignity of women, and rather just intended to point out the differences in the roles of male and female on earth (specifically in the church). However, you may have caused the wrong impression. I have not read every post in this thread, so I hope I am not “beating a dead horse” and I appologize for writing in a thread uninvited (as a am a woman), but I felt the need to respond.

God bless,
k
 
Well said Katieq!

I disagree with those who seem to feel that the church has dealt unfairly with “left and right”, or that it has dealt harshly with some extremists/sedecvacantists. Those clergy who have taken a vow of obedience and then choose to dissent (along with those laymen.) because they wish to hop into a liturgical and practical time machine thinking that it will cure all the ills of our most holy faith are (IMO) doing just as much harm to Holy Church as many anti-Catholics and need to be reminded of their vows.

Those who feel that the church should waste time in officially discussing the ordination of women to the priesthood need only look to Pope John Paul II’s simple statement of fact. The church has no authority to change this.

Pope John Paul II wrote (ORDINATIO SACERDOTALIS),

4. Although the teaching that priestly ordination is to be reserved to men alone has been preserved by the constant and universal Tradition of the Church and firmly taught by the Magisterium in its more recent documents, at the present time in some places it is nonetheless considered still open to debate, or the Church’s judgment that women are not to be admitted to ordination is considered to have a merely disciplinary force.
Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church’s divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church’s faithful.

The church need not get into the issue…it is settled.

As an aside, I would also point out that those who think that women n-C ministers are all fine and good should ask around among n-Cs and you’ll pretty quickly find that there are many who will not attend a service or church where a woman is preaching or pastoring. I’ve seen this myself.

We all need to listen carefully to what the Holy Spirit calls us to do within the Body of Christ and obey that, knowing that with the call also comes the graces of obedience and the spiritual equiping to carry out that call.
Pax vobiscum,
 
If the Church truly hated women, or even if it coincides with the Pauline restrictions about women speaking in Church (which I don’t understand but think it may have to do with them preaching homilies?) then I don’t think she would allow women altar servers, women Eucharistic Ministers (pardon if that’s not the proper term) or women lecters like they do now.

I know being ordained is different, but my point is that the Church did bend on those policy issues, because they evidently weren’t contrary to unchangeable dogma. That tells me that she isn’t unilaterally excluding women from involvement.

I mean, they may not preside over the actual transubstantiation, but they administer the sacrament one-on-one that used to be reserved only for priests, right?

The downside is that people who push for “women’s involvement” don’t look to move to the right balance, but to one end of the scale so at this point I’m speculating about others’ thoughts so maybe I’d best just leave it there.

My :twocents:

Alan
 
John Higgins:
Nah, LL42, don’t bother. It’s been done to death on these forums. Do a search on Ordinatio Sacerdotalis and you’ll find most of them. I’m in the minority here; I know it, and I don’t care.

John
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If Ordinatio Sacerdotalis is infallible, so important a judgement was delivered in a very “undogmatic” manner - it would have been a great help if the Pope had used a formula such as “We…pronounce, define and declare, that it is a divinely-revealed truth that…”.​

Calling the decision “definitive” is not exactly an overt and unmistakable exercise of infallibility; “definitive” is a word which can very well mean far less than “final, irrevocable, having dogmatic weight”, and so on.

At least with Pius XII and the Assumption (for example) it is made extremely clear that the Pope had every intention of engaging his full authority to define a dogma binding in conscience on all Catholics for all time to come, and that to deny the dogma is heretical and excommunicates the heretic from the Church.

If the Pope’s decision that ordination is restricted to men alone is also of dogmatic force, it would be a great help if his successor could re-iterate that decision, this time in the clearest and firmest and weightiest terms possible. #
 
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starrs0:
I think the Church needs to start Excommunicating those that voice a desire to have women ordained they clearly aren’t accepting the authority of the Pope or the Magisterium and so thus aren’t truely Catholic so lets kick them out and be done with it.
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oh, that is real a good way to convince people:eek:

I’m assuming that you’re joking
 
Steve Andersen:
oh, that is real a good way to convince people:eek:

I’m assuming that you’re joking
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He may be kidding or being satirical but I’m sorry to say this sentiment is more common than you might like to believe, on this very board. 😦

It seems the new mantra is to bring unity through harsh, divisive language and get rid of those you consider inferior. :whacky:

Alan
 
Well, the idea of excommunication is a bit harsh, but I would say that it is probably a good idea as far as the very prominent Bishops and Priests who are strongly pushing the idea.
 
oh, that is real a good way to convince people:eek:
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I’m assuming that you’re joking
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I’am not I’m being deadly serious dissenters that don’t accept the Popes word on this matter and refuse to accept this teaching as being a definitive truth need to be shown that The Church means what it says and if that means getting rid of those who what to disagree then so be it.
 
first they came for those who questioned women’s ordination but I didn’t support that so I said nothing…

be careful what you wish for Starrs0
 
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