Men's purity - What can women do about it?

[Black_Jaque]

I’ve been noticing many thread dealing with men and their pornography addictions, unfaithfulness, and otherwise impurity.

What we are beginning to see is that this is not just “his” problem. Surprise, surprise, when the couple says “I do” his problems suddenly become her’s - it’s as if the two became one.

So it seems to me that women as a whole would benefit greatly if men as a whole were more pure - just a guess. But, since it’s the man’s problem, the women are totally helpless, and all they can do is pray that men will overcome their problems right? No, I’m not convinced of that.

For one thing, every porn-addicted husband mentioned on this forum is some woman’s son. The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world eh?

For another thing, just my personal experience, when a man says “I do” he is essentially making himself vulnerable to a little pipsqueak that he ordinarily should be able to throw around like a rag doll. I am continually amazed at how deeply some 115 # woman can hurt me. On the other hand, I’ve also seen how just a kind word can send me leaping skyscrapers in a single bound, taking on an M-1 tank with a bowie knife, and other wise conquering things thought impossible.

So is there any insight from you men and women on what has worked and what has failed? What have wives done that they found really helped their man struggling with purity? What have they done that made the problem worse? What can mothers do to assure the purity of their sons?

 

[manualman]

Hmm, dangerous. Almost sounds like you believe in some sort of ‘communion of saints’ or something like that.

That said, the primary responsibility for a man’s purity falls on him. In the history of Christendom, there were times when an unfair portion of the burden was born by the woman.

Here’s an easy one that would benefit BOTH sexes: Stop buying magazines that portray the ideal woman as an object of sexual pleasure to be used. An anorexic object at that.

You’ll feel better about how you look. We’ll be able to go buy some milk at the store without experiencing debilitating testosterone poisoning.

Secondly, there’s no need for you ladies to choke yourselves. But try not to waste TOO many of the buttons on those blouses. Such views are kinda hard on the virtue of many guys.

 

[Lexee15]

I think you are absolutely right!!! :clapping: I think it starts with the way society treats men. Women are expected to be pure, be good girls and behave and men are rewarded for their many conquests, affairs and notches on the headboard. And it does start at home if parents didn’t tolerate impure behavior equally with their daughters & sons we’d have men with more pure hearts living more pure lives and bringing this to the marriage as an asset. We need to get rid of the “Boys will be boys” attitude that most societies have. :tsktsk:

 

[dulcissima]

Black Jaque:

he is essentially making himself vulnerable to a little pipsqueak that he ordinarily should be able to throw around like a rag doll.

I’m kind of disturbed by this little snippet of your post. Pipsqueak is kind of a strange word to choose to describe a woman, and no man should think that he should be able to throw any woman around like a rag doll for any reason.

That being said, as the mother of three sons, I think you do bring up a great point. I would be interested in what other women have to say about this because I have been discussing this with my husband. Although he is not into pornography since we’ve been married, he seems to think it would be just fine to supply our sons with pornographic magazines and would not want me to even suggest to them that self-gratification is a sin. None of our sons are old enough for this to be an issue YET. If anyone has any good advice, I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[Black_Jaque]

That said, the primary responsibility for a man’s purity falls on him.

This is true, but the fact that he has the primary responsibility doesn’t exclude the existance of a secondary responsibility - in fact it almost suggests it.

Also, simply plopping the entire responsibility on the man’s lap, will leave women largely helpless. I guess I’m looking for a way to empower (I hate that word) women, since they seem to have a vested interest.

And don’t forget the motherhood. A wife may have less power to stop her husband from using porn - but does she have a better chance of preventing her son from inhereting the same sin?

 

[Ana]

A few years ago, my husband dabbled in internet porn. I had a dream that he did, and when I told him about it, he turned white, confessed that he had, and was so freaked out he never did it again. He still gives me a weird look every so often. It is not the first time, unconscious signals I pick up, come together in a coherant whole in a dream. Totally wigs him out, I think it’s just a woman’s sixth sense, we have a good intuition.

His appreciation for the need for purity grew along the years, greatly helped by his pro life stance, a respect of sexuality within our marriage that was addressed when we learned NFP, and the Church teachings behind it.

and of course …PRAYER!! (lots)

God bless!

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

Lexee15:

I think it starts with the way society treats men. Women are expected to be pure, be good girls and behave and men are rewarded for their many conquests, affairs and notches on the headboard. And it does start at home if parents didn’t tolerate impure behavior equally with their daughters & sons we’d have men with more pure hearts living more pure lives and bringing this to the marriage as an asset. We need to get rid of the “Boys will be boys” attitude that most societies have. :tsktsk:

I hate that “boys will be boys” attitude. Just who is the object of those boys’ impure behavior? It isn’t Martians or old ladies – it’s those same parents’ daughters!

Crazy Internet Junkies Society
Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag

 

[dulcissima]

Black Jaque:

A wife may have less power to stop her husband from using porn - but does she have a better chance of preventing her son from inhereting the same sin?

Hmmm, wouldn’t you think a woman would have MORE power over keeping her husband from using porn? I mean a wife does have more alternatives at her disposal, provided of course that the husband was agreeable and wasn’t more interested in maintaining his habits he had before they were married.

 

[Ana]

Black Jaque:

For another thing, just my personal experience, when a man says “I do” he is essentially making himself vulnerable to a little pipsqueak that he ordinarily should be able to throw around like a rag doll. I am continually amazed at how deeply some 115 # woman can hurt me. On the other hand, I’ve also seen how just a kind word can send me leaping skyscrapers in a single bound, taking on an M-1 tank with a bowie knife, and other wise conquering things thought impossible.

Very similar to my husband. We will be discussing virtues and ideals for behaviour. Inevitably logic prevails and he reminds me that “didn’t I know if he wanted to he could just squeeze my head in his arms and pop my head like a zit?” Then he proceeds to do just that, demonstrating how I can’t get loose, and if he just exerted a little more pressure, my head would pop. That’s when I know I have won.

Also, if he thinks I am upset (providing he doesn’t think he is to blame) he is my knight in shining armor, trying to do anything in his power to cheer me up. If he thinks he’s the one in the doghouse, he hides in the basement and tinkers with the motorcycle until forced to face the music when I call him for dinner. He is so adorable. (most of the time)

 

[Black_Jaque]

I’m kind of disturbed by this little snippet of your post. Pipsqueak is kind of a strange word to choose to describe a woman, and no man should think that he should be able to throw any woman around like a rag doll for any reason.

Perhaps I should not have used the word “should”. I didn’t mean to imply that this is acceptable behavior - just that it’s possible.

Yes pipsqueak is a strange word. And I used the imagery to bring out the contrast. I didn’t make the weight/power difference between men and women, God did. Is it wrong for me to notice it?

 

[miguel]

I remember sitting in an RN’s waiting room for NFP lessons when my wife and I were engaged. There was a magazine that had an article dealing with mental fidelity. Of course this is not a new idea in Catholicism. But it made the point that purity goes hand-in-hand with marital fidelity. You can’t be daydreaming about other women and consider yourself faithful. And for alot of men that is a lifelong struggle. It is up to men to see fidelity to their spouse as a manly challenge. But women need to realize they are pretty darn distractin’ as it is. They don’t need to add to it by wearing stuff that is too revealing.

 

[dulcissima]

Black Jaque:

Perhaps I should not have used the word “should”. I didn’t mean to imply that this is acceptable behavior - just that it’s possible.

Yes pipsqueak is a strange word. And I used the imagery to bring out the contrast. I didn’t make the weight/power difference between men and women, God did. Is it wrong for me to notice it?

You’re right. If you changed should to could, I would totally agree with you. No, it’s not wrong for you to notice the weight/power difference. I notice it all of the time when my husband is upset with me. He can definitely be physically intimidating, not only to me, but to other men as well. He is used to being the silverback that no one challenges.

 

[Ana]

Black Jaque:

I didn’t make the weight/power difference between men and women, God did. Is it wrong for me to notice it?

I don’t think so, and I think this differance plays an important part of perception of spouses within marriage. For example, in my post a little higher up in this thread, was an example of a loving and fun exchange between my husband and I, precisely BECAUSE of our differences and our comfort in them.

I am often amazed how it is because I am weak that I have such power over my husband. Brings out the protectiveness in him. We play fight all the time, and after a particularly brutal kick to his head (took martial arts as a kid), my husband admitted I was pretty tough “for a girl.”

 

[Ana]

dulcissima:

He is used to being the silverback that no one challenges.

That typically is hiding a deep fear and insecurity. I know what it is like to live with that kind of hostility (my hubby wasn’t always so nice). I am adding you and your spouse to my prayers. Sinful anger is so destructive.

 

[Black_Jaque]

Hmmm, wouldn’t you think a woman would have MORE power over keeping her husband from using porn? I mean a wife does have more alternatives at her disposal, provided of course that the husband was agreeable and wasn’t more interested in maintaining his habits he had before they were married.

Well I meant a woman may have less power as a wife to change her husband than she does as a mother to prevent her son from going the wrong way.

But, I know where you are getting at. I think back to that part in Huck Finn when Jim was watch Huck go to shore. Jim knew Huck was intending to turn him in as a runaway slave. Jim lavished compliments on Huck, and built up Huck’s loyalty. Huck was so ashamed, that he couldn’t bring himself to turn Jim in.

Makes me wonder if a wife could do something similar.

In my own marriage I’ve been learning that honey catches more flies than vinegar. Building my wife up has helped way more than even politely suggesting ways to improve. But that’s for a different thread.

Getting back to mother-son relationships… I wonder, if the interaction between mother and father contributed to what a man “needs” as an adult? They say a girl will grow up trying to “tame” men like her father, can a boy grow up trying to “win” women like his mother? What was the relationship between mother and son when these sons grew up to be porn addicts?

 

[dulcissima]

Black Jaque:

Getting back to mother-son relationships… I wonder, if the interaction between mother and father contributed to what a man “needs” as an adult? They say a girl will grow up trying to “tame” men like her father, can a boy grow up trying to “win” women like his mother? What was the relationship between mother and son when these sons grew up to be porn addicts?

Interesting. My husband has no interest in porn anymore, but his mom used to buy it for him when he was a teenager. I think that is pretty weird, and I hope he doesn’t plan on me being just like his mom. I don’t know, I just think pornography is really sick, not because of the sex, but because it objectifies women and it has nothing to do with love, which should be a crucial part of sex.

 

[kev7]

Why does it bother women so much when their husband masterbates?

If I had a wife that did such a thing I would pray for her and try to help her in a gentle way, but I would never let such a thing get to my head.

Everyone has a 'Sin" that they have to work on. Your sin might not be the same as your husbands, but you are not perfect either.

Women also have to understand that it can be very difficult for a man do go without masterbating. It can drive him nuts and force him to lose concentration. I’m not saying that it should be something that is acceptable. I’m just saying that it is a cross that all men have to carry. And as a loving wife it is important to be kind and understanding.

 

[dulcissima]

kev7:

Why does it bother women so much when their husband masterbates?

If I had a wife that did such a thing I would pray for her and try to help her in a gentle way, but I would never let such a thing get to my head.

Everyone has a 'Sin" that they have to work on. Your sin might not be the same as your husbands, but you are not perfect either.

Women also have to understand that it can be very difficult for a man do go without masterbating. It can drive him nuts and force him to lose concentration. I’m not saying that it should be something that is acceptable. I’m just saying that it is a cross that all men have to carry. And as a loving wife it is important to be kind and understanding.

Kev, that might be true for an unmarried man, but really for a married man, there is (or rather should be) no reason.

 

[rayne89]

kev7:

Why does it bother women so much when their husband masterbates?

Some women are more offended then others. I have a friend who was devastated when she walked in on her husband. She took it very personally. She felt it was an insult to her ability to please her husband sexually, she was very deeply hurt by it.

When this was an issue earlier in our marriage I remember feeling I was just means to an end. If I wasn’t in the mood, he would “entertain” himself. So I was just another form of masturbation for him. (And wasn’t because I wasn’t available often-we were very active in that area.)

This habit of my husband’s started as a kid and was “very regular” about it. He rarely ever falls into it now, and we have spans when we must refain from intimacy because we use NFP. He just made a concrete decision to stop. I am amazed myself at his self control. Frequenting the sacraments is definately helpful.

 

[kev7]

dulcissima:

Kev, that might be true for an unmarried man, but really for a married man, there is (or rather should be) no reason.

There never is a reason for it and that is my point. If you are not a man then you don’'t understand how powerfull and frustrating the urge can be. Sometimes you just have to do it to keep your mind away from impure thoughts.

For married men, there are times when a woman just can’t give herself to you. During these times it is very difficult for a man to be pure.

Women have to stop expecting that men can act like them. We can’t and it isn’t natural for us. Some women have to more understanding. The more that women refuse us in marriage the more likely we are to commit an impure act.