Men's purity - What can women do about it?

[Pug]

Rayne and Dulcissima,

I mean things like a dvd of Kill Bill or Species (yes, this is porn for some people…very potent porn). I suppose I wrote it in generic terms because a nameless individual (ha!) once threw away a book and several months worth of study notes that belonged to me. I am still annoyed if I think about it. Fortunately I don’t think about it. The book was unobjectionable, and I have since replaced it, but obviously not the notes. Oh, I also suppose the same nameless individual also threw away my laptop, without erasing my financial data from the drive. It was tossed in a public dumpster. Anyway, I don’t care to imagine what else would disappear if I embarked upon throwing out the Kill Bill dvd. Since I don’t want my stuff dumped, I don’t dump other people’s stuff. However, I admit, my situation is odd and most people could safely dump porn with no immediate consequences.

To forstall the question, yes, the nameless individual completely agrees with my version of events.

I think property rights are not absolute, for example, one could take a gun from someone who is going to kill someone with it, but I haven’t considered it beyond that. How about pornography in HIS office, locked in a safe? Or is every area and thing common in marriage to some extent?

 

[dulcissima]

I’m pretty sure he didn’t notice. He knew I knew about them. Plus, he isn’t someone who holds back his feelings. If something is bothering him, he lets me know.

 

[rayne89]

Pug:

Rayne and Dulcissima,

I mean things like a dvd of Kill Bill or Species (yes, this is porn for some people…very potent porn). I suppose I wrote it in generic terms because a nameless individual (ha!) once threw away a book and several months worth of study notes that belonged to me. I am still annoyed if I think about it. Fortunately I don’t think about it. The book was unobjectionable, and I have since replaced it, but obviously not the notes. Oh, I also suppose the same nameless individual also threw away my laptop, without erasing my financial data from the drive. It was tossed in a public dumpster. Anyway, I don’t care to imagine what else would disappear if I embarked upon throwing out the Kill Bill dvd. Since I don’t want my stuff dumped, I don’t dump other people’s stuff. However, I admit, my situation is odd and most people could safely dump porn with no immediate consequences.

To forstall the question, yes, the nameless individual completely agrees with my version of events.

I think property rights are not absolute, for example, one could take a gun from someone who is going to kill someone with it, but I haven’t considered it beyond that. How about pornography in HIS office, locked in a safe? Or is every area and thing common in marriage to some extent?

This is going to sound odd but I would recommend a Marriage Encounter weekend assuming the nameless individual is married to you. It is excellant at learning to communicate feelings on important issues in a non-confrontational way.
wwme.org/new.html

marriage-encounter.org/

Do you remember the childhood story about the sun and the wind? They made a wager to see who get the the coat off the man walking on the road? The wind blew and blew and the man only held on to it tighter. The the sun shined brightly and the man feeling the warmth took his coat off.

It sounds the nameless person feels it is an issue of control that has little to do with the actual items at hand, so he just hangs on tighter.

Just my humble opinion.

 

[Black_Jaque]

Pug,

I look at it as - This is my house. Yes it happens to be theirs too. But there are things that aren’t negotiable.

Anyway, I don’t care to imagine what else would disappear if I embarked upon throwing out the Kill Bill dvd.

Casualties of war are a given. You do damage control. But if you avoid war because you fear casualties - you’re doomed.

Is his office in your house?

Draw the line at having some control over the house - not control over him. Once he sees that you have some reasonable boundaries he can work with that.

 

[dulcissima]

Pug:

I think property rights are not absolute, for example, one could take a gun from someone who is going to kill someone with it, but I haven’t considered it beyond that. How about pornography in HIS office, locked in a safe? Or is every area and thing common in marriage to some extent?

Well, if he had something locked in a safe in his office, how would I know about it? If I did know about it, I couldn’t get to it, could I? I would have to ask him to get rid of it. If he refused, what else could I do? Not much. Plus that if it was something that was not in the house, not illegal, not physically harmful to anyone (himself included) and not spiritually harmful to anyone other than himself, I think it would be best to just leave it between him and God.

Here is an example that kind of falls into that category. Sometimes for business purposes (ie to entertain a client) my husband will go to strip clubs. He usually calls me and tells me that is where he is going. I do not approve of this, and do not encourage it. However, I think that is something between him and God.

 

[Ana]

dulcissima:

Well, if he had something locked in a safe in his office, how would I know about it? If I did know about it, I couldn’t get to it, could I? I would have to ask him to get rid of it. If he refused, what else could I do? Not much. Plus that if it was something that was not in the house, not illegal, not physically harmful to anyone (himself included) and not spiritually harmful to anyone other than himself, I think it would be best to just leave it between him and God…

Although it may not be spiritually harmful to someone other than himself in this case, the spouse still suffers the loss of the blessings to be had of a faithful and chaste husband. Even if she never knows what she is missing. But I agree that it would be overstepping his rights to enter in to HIS office and throw away his property. Unless “HIS” office is in “OUR” house, than it would be within mutual territory, and I would feel justified in insisting on it’s removal…

dulcissima:

Sometimes for business purposes (ie to entertain a client) my husband will go to strip clubs. He usually calls me and tells me that is where he is going. I do not approve of this, and do not encourage it. However, I think that is something between him and God.

Oh dulcissima! … How absolutely tragic!!:crying: This is NOT okay, and you are very much involved in this scenario!!

 

[Lexee15]

Going back to men’s purity and what we as women can do about it, I honestly feel that there isn’t much we can do unless we are the mothers of sons and can start teaching them at an early age how wonderful it is to be pure and chaste so that they will want to live that kind of lifestyle.

I (and it’s in another thread) am dealing with a man who has no concept of purity for himself…but expects it and demands in others, especially women. :bigyikes: It seems nothing I say or do seems to get through :banghead: He’s not into porn, but he certainly is into affairs (emotional & physical), gambling and drinking, but doesn’t seem to understand how bad this is for him not to mention us. Since there are men reading and responding to this thread I ask you…why this attitude and way of thinking?

 

[dulcissima]

Ana:

Oh dulcissima! … How absolutely tragic!!:crying: This is NOT okay, and you are very much involved in this scenario!!

I am not happy about it, but to be honest, neither is he. He only goes because he feels like he has to. I know he is not there lusting after women.

 

[Ana]

dulcissima:

I am not happy about it, but to be honest, neither is he. He only goes because he feels like he has to. I know he is not there lusting after women.

I Pm’d you so as not to hijack the thread.

 

[Pug]

Black Jaque:

Casualties of war are a given. You do damage control. But if you avoid war because you fear casualties - you’re doomed.

Is his office in your house?

No. After many years, we have established that I don’t like this stuff in the house. My wishes were not respected for a long time, but the principle seems mostly established now, save for the occasional lapse. I am much, much happier now. The garage, shed, and office are another ball of wax.

I do wage war, and have from day one. I suppose I am a bit of a tired soldier these days. The real war has been learning how to live this way, how to remain at some peace with myself, how to not blame God, how to be a decent human being, how to bless others, oh, a lot of things. If the war were to fix the other person or have a scrap of control of my lot in life, well, I “lost” that from the moment I took a vow. Actually, from the moment I was conceived in the womb. God’s done a better job with me than I ever would have done.

I don’t know what has gotten into me these last few days…I’ve been cooped up more than usual with a dumb cast on my leg.

 

[Pug]

dulcissima:

I think that is something between him and God.

I agree, some things are best left that way. I’m sorry about the strip club! Feel free to share about it, if that helps.

rayne89:

It sounds the nameless person feels it is an issue of control that has little to do with the actual items at hand, so he just hangs on tighter.

You are probably right. Previously, any joint activity like a retreat would not have been the right course of action. Maybe the winds are changing. I’ll wait and see.

 

[goravens]

As far as what women can do to help their husbands, I think showing them mercy is the best course of action. Me yelling at my husband, fighting unfairly with him, etc. is not going to get him to stop stumbling in sins of lust. It’s only going to make him feel bad and as though I don’t love him through the “for worse” parts of our marriage. He already knows I think it’s a serious and big deal. If we are called to mirror Christ to our spouses, it means showing them love, tenderness and compassion in the face of mistakes and sin. All the while, holding them to a higher standard. Of course, my disclaimer on this is that if your husband does not think there is anything wrong with his actions - it’s a whole different ballgame from the advice I’m giving.

Some practical examples of this - my husband and I agreed to install a filter on our home computer for which only I know the password. He simply is not able to access any sites that would be impure or pornographic, unless I turned off the controls. My husband is tempted at times on the computer so this has helped. He also recognizes he’s more tempted when his time is idle - so he sets a timer each time he gets on the computer to set a limit. We’ve talked about starting to rent our movies from Clean Flicks (www.cleanflicks.com) which automatically edits out violence, cussing, and illicit sex scenes. When we go out to movies we make a choice to not see one if it looks morally unacceptable, and often read the USCCB ratings beforehand. I encourage him to talk regularly with a close friend of his for accountability and community.

We pray regularly, and I pray for him. We seek the sacraments often.

 

[Ana]

goravens:

If we are called to mirror Christ to our spouses, it means showing them love, tenderness and compassion in the face of mistakes and sin. All the while, holding them to a higher standard. Of course, my disclaimer on this is that if your husband does not think there is anything wrong with his actions - it’s a whole different ballgame from the advice I’m giving.

We pray regularly, and I pray for him. We seek the sacraments
often.

:clapping: Exactly! We are called to love our husbands with the love of Christ. Not bitter and resentful because we are being sold short or so offended or degraded, but earnestly seeking the good of the husband for the sake of his own soul and the glory of God. Thankfully this sin has never grabbed foothold in our marriage, but others have and in all of the situations … it was when I am given this grace and respond to it, and only then, that my actions bear GOOD fruit. One good dose of GODS LOVE (in whatever form it may take, sometimes tough) is more efficacious than all the sermons, lectures, tears, and threats made in our pitiful self seeking human love, concerned only with how we (as the wife), or our marriage, or our family is being slighted.

For example, early in our marriage my husband was downright hostile, even at times getting physical. I went through all the stages of kicking him out, letting him back so concerned with … how dare he … who does he think he is… blah blah …

Life went on, so did the hostility from him (he was always SO ANGRY) and Christ taught me how to love better and one day I realized I loved him too much to enable him in this kind of behaviour. That he was a better man than that, even if he didn’t know it. That I couldn’t allow him to live like that anymore (a rotton husband and father) because I loved him. Suddenly, I felt so sorry for him, he seemed so … lost. My actions motivated from this Heavenly compassion, accomplished more towards the healing in our marriage in three months, than the prior three years.

Hang in there goravens, you two are on the right track!

 

[cynic]

Its so much easier for women, they are not physically attracted to the oppoisite gender. Men are, and pornography perverts it. Lust is a latent part of our nature, we are much more ‘fallen’ than women is this regard, and we’re pretty ashamed about it too, hence the aggression to cover that up.

 

[rayne89]

cynic:

Its so much easier for women, they are not physically attracted to the oppoisite gender.

Ok I laughed out loud. I am very physically attracted to my husband.

And as a teenager there were plenty of guys I thought were “hot”. In fact I can think of a few movie stars/rock stars off the top of my head that are very physically attractive. Doesn’t mean I want to see them naked.

 

[cynic]

rayne89:

Ok I laughed out loud. I am very physically attracted to my husband.

And as a teenager there were plenty of guys I thought were “hot”. In fact I can think of a few movie stars/rock stars off the top of my head that are very physically attractive. Doesn’t mean I want to see them naked.

A women may appreciate a mans appearence, but that’s not the same as lust, not even sexual. You’re fond of your husabnd so you’re fond of his appearence, that’s a world away from what goes on in mens minds.

 

[rayne89]

cynic:

A women may appreciate a mans appearence, but that’s not the same as lust, not even sexual. You’re fond of your husabnd so you’re fond of his appearence, that’s a world away from what goes on in mens minds.

I do appreciate what your getting at and yes women do place a greater importance on personality then men (generally) when it comes to attraction. But I am sexually attracted to my husband. If he’s clean shaven, wearing a sleaveless T (some guys are “leg” men I’m an “arm” woman ), and snug jeans his night is made.

I think men have sexual thoughts in general far more often then women and I definately think alot of it is biological. I believe hormones play a huge role here. Men need to be physically ready to procreate at anytime. Women only have a 2 or possibly 3 day window each month to conceive. While our hormones go up and down (kind of like our moods ) men have a steady stream of hormones all the time. So yes I believe it is easier for women in general to maintain purity then it is for men.

But women do have sexual feelings.

 

[wcknight]

Maybe a healthy talk with kids early on would help, but then again probably not. The sexual drive can not be so easily controlled. I seriously doubt whether one or two talks from a parent will magically solve the problems of hormones run rampant.

We had talks with our kids about smoking, drinking, and pre-marital sex at least on a couple of occasions, yet we know they have still had problems. Neither my wife nor I are smokers or drinkers, yet my oldest got into beer drinking binges with his friends in college AND we have caught him smoking during high school and a bit during college.

Talking might help a little but I seriously doubt it will ever solve the problems. I think the problem is greatly aggravated by the constant bombardment from the media both TV and the movies (not to mention ads in the papers and on the internet".

Out society is flooded with ads focusing on sex and sexual attraction. Look at the car ads, and stuff normally totally unrelated to sex. The common practice is to put a skimpily clad female as the main focal point and then somehow sneak in the product as an afterthought. Half the time, you have no idea what they are selling.

All you notice is some hot actress being hyped as the ultimate fullfillment of your desires.

Guys are more sexually oriented to begin with, toss on this focus by outside sources and it is no wonder that by the time they are teenagers, they are ready to jump into the sack with anything and anyone that moves and wears a skirt.

The popular image of the male hero is the debonair smooth talking guy with a bevy of hot babes. James Bond doesn’t just have one beautiful woman but several, most times within the same movie.

Yes, all of these images are just hollywood puttiing out fiction and fantasy. But if you put it out there often enough, the subconcious mind starts to thinks that maybe that is possible.

Realistically, the majority of guys will NOT end up with the sleek stacked movie star. 95% of females do not look like that and the few that do will in all likelihood, not be interested in the average every day guy. Some of them will end up with the handsome professional athelete, some will end up with the rich guy down the street, and the rest will marry a fellow movie star.

After we get back into the real world, we do get our expectations back to earth. We find someone ideal for us, beautiful becomes more like mom and less like Marilyn Monroe. We also discover that intelligence, personality, and trust makes a far better mate than great physical features. And, we figure out that living with someone for life, is far different from one night flings.

BUT in the back of our minds is the fantasy of the James Bond mentaility. Wouldn’t it be great to be able to have flings with a beautiful gal just about every day ? It’s all a fool’s fantasy, but it has been ingrained into the psyche from the popular media, and it is continually driven home with every risque commercial, every tv show with loose sexual values and every movie that exhibits affairs with mutliple partners.

How do you fight against such an onslaught ???

I think you do it be making folks aware of what is going on, making them realize that it is all fools gold, that the values (or lack of valus) presented are wrong, and not desirable in our society. I seriously doubt you can ever stop it, but you may be able to lessen its impact.

 

[BibleReader]

**Men’s purity - What can women do about it? **

My wife would answer, “Hopefully, not too much.”

 

[snoopy]

Black Jaque:

This is true, but the fact that he has the primary responsibility doesn’t exclude the existance of a secondary responsibility - in fact it almost suggests it.

Also, simply plopping the entire responsibility on the man’s lap, will leave women largely helpless. I guess I’m looking for a way to empower (I hate that word) women, since they seem to have a vested interest.

And don’t forget the motherhood. A wife may have less power to stop her husband from using porn - but does she have a better chance of preventing her son from inhereting the same sin?

Why do you hate the word empower?