Men's Rights and the Catholic Church

[marymary1975]

Excuse me - I read a bumper sticker once that said ‘anyone who believes that women deserve better than to be treated like a small deposit of seagull poo on the windscreen of life is a feminist’.

Since I presume you fall into that category, I guess you are indeed a feminist. It simply depends on your definition/understanding of what feminism is.

Now when I was very young, before I’d even heard the f word, I knew of women such as Elizabeth I and St Joan of Arc who did not fit the traditional mould whereby women were expected to marry or enter religious life if they were to have any status or impact. As well as women such as my mother and grandmother who combined well very active and involved parenting with demanding and satisfying work (in Mum’s case as a doctor) which contributed greatly to their communities.

I didn’t need to know the f word to be an f word, neither did they.

What we are talking here is about the feminist movement which is a movement that promotes abortion, contraception, sex before marriage, homosexuality, transgenderism, is anti-family and believes that being male or female are social constructions, that there are no differences between the sexes and is heavily against the catholic church which according to them is an oppresor of women. St. Joan of Arc never promoted any of the above-listed. As i said, is mutually exclusive with Catholicism because the Catholic church has expressly condemned abortion, homosexuality, etc, so unless someone is one of those people who called themselves catholic but don’t believe in half of the church’s teaching (which to me are not real catholics) it is impossible to be both. I am a lawyer too and can combine perfectly parenting, home and work but since I am catholic and don’t agree with abortion, homosexuality, contraception,etc. and follow the church doctrine (which I am quite knowleadgeable) therefore believe in real equality, as Jesus Christ intended, can say quite confidently that both are pretty much exclusive.

 

[LilyM]

What we are talking here is about the feminist movement which is a movement that promotes abortion, contraception, sex before marriage, homosexuality, transgenderism, is anti-family and believes that being male or female are social constructions, that there are no differences between the sexes and is heavily against the catholic church which according to them is an oppresor of women. St. Joan of Arc never promoted any of the above-listed. As i said, is mutually exclusive with Catholicism because the Catholic church has expressly condemned abortion, homosexuality, etc, so unless someone is one of those people who called themselves catholic but don’t believe in half of the church’s teaching (which to me are not real catholics) it is impossible to be both. I am a lawyer too and can combine perfectly parenting, home and work but since I am catholic and don’t agree with abortion, homosexuality, contraception,etc. and follow the church doctrine (which I am quite knowleadgeable) therefore believe in real equality, as Jesus Christ intended, can say quite confidently that both are pretty much exclusive.

what exactly is this ‘feminist movement’ you speak of?
Who are its leaders?
Where are its head offices?
Where is its membership list kept?
Who does one apply to to join?
Who is responsible for denying or accepting new members?
Where does it advertise for new members?
Who writes and publishes its policy documents in such issues as transgenderism etc, and where can I get copies so as to determine whether I agree with them?
Finally, who owns the copyright on the word feminist - and since you are a feminist why would you object to marrying one?

I honestly do not know a single person, male or female, Catholic or atheist, self-described feminist or not, who would not have substantial disagreements with that list of “feminist” positions you have mentioned. Does that mean that there is actually no such thing as a feminist? And that each and every woman who would describe herself as a feminist is wrong since she disagrees with this mythical movement’s positions?

 

[silentfactor80]

what exactly is this ‘feminist movement’ you speak of?
Who are its leaders?
Where are its head offices?
Where is its membership list kept?
Who does one apply to to join?
Who is responsible for denying or accepting new members?
Where does it advertise for new members?
Who writes and publishes its policy documents in such issues as transgenderism etc, and where can I get copies so as to determine whether I agree with them?
Finally, who owns the copyright on the word feminist - and since you are a feminist why would you object to marrying one?

I honestly do not know a single person, male or female, Catholic or atheist, self-described feminist or not, who would not have substantial disagreements with that list of “feminist” positions you have mentioned. Does that mean that there is actually no such thing as a feminist? And that each and every woman who would describe herself as a feminist is wrong since she disagrees with this mythical movement’s positions?

Lobbyist groups such as National Organization for Women, Planned Parenthood, American Association for University Women, etc…

It is also the collection of literature that demonizes men while celebrating women as spotless benevolent angels.

Feminism is not just thinking women deserve to be treated better than seagull poo. Feminism is about “giving men what they deserve” and instilling a spirit of guilt in all men to make them pay for perceived crimes of the past. It is also about giving women unfettered and unchecked power to do as they see fit.

As someone said earlier, it would be great if we could unit under humanism. There is no reason why if feminism was ONLY about equality that it should be given a feminine label. The same is true of men’s rights. When black people demanded civil rights they didn’t call themselves blackists or institute blackism. The called it CIVIL RIGHTS because it was something for everyone. The fact that the word feminism even exists is troubling because it is almost like singling women out as something better than the rest.

 

[AlTheCollegeGal]

Lobbyist groups such as National Organization for Women, Planned Parenthood, American Association for University Women, etc…

It is also the collection of literature that demonizes men while celebrating women as spotless benevolent angels.

Feminism is not just thinking women deserve to be treated better than seagull poo. Feminism is about “giving men what they deserve” and instilling a spirit of guilt in all men to make them pay for perceived crimes of the past. It is also about giving women unfettered and unchecked power to do as they see fit.

As someone said earlier, it would be great if we could unit under humanism. There is no reason why if feminism was ONLY about equality that it should be given a feminine label. The same is true of men’s rights. When black people demanded civil rights they didn’t call themselves blackists or institute blackism. The called it CIVIL RIGHTS because it was something for everyone. The fact that the word feminism even exists is troubling because it is almost like singling women out as something better than the rest.

The part I’ve bolded is patently untrue. There are all sorts of people out there. Yes, some of them may claim to be feminist and believe these things. However, most women, myself included, just want to be treated equally. Some women like myself consider ourselves 1.) Catholic 2.) Pro-Life and 3.) (gasp!) a Feminist. Look at Susan B. Anthony and Elisabeth Cady Stanton, early feminists who garnered a women’s right to vote all the while being pro-life. See, as a feminist, I do believe that to be pro-women, pro-men, pro-human is to be pro-life. Thus, I know it’s a shocker, but us feministic pro-life women do exist out there. And, you know what? I have a boatload of respect for both women and men.

 

[gam197]

originally posted by AttheCollegeGal
The part I’ve bolded is patently untrue. There are all sorts of people out there. Yes, some of them may claim to be feminist and believe these things. However, most women, myself included, just want to be treated equally. Some women like myself consider ourselves 1.) Catholic 2.) Pro-Life and 3.) (gasp!) a Feminist. Look at Susan B. Anthony and Elisabeth Cady Stanton, early feminists who garnered a women’s right to vote all the while being pro-life. See, as a feminist, I do believe that to be pro-women, pro-men, pro-human is to be pro-life. Thus, I know it’s a shocker, but us feministic pro-life women do exist out there. And, you know what? I have a boatload of respect for both women and men

I believe you are speaking for a great number of younger generation girls. who have been brought up I with the old feminism and have rejected it. The women and gender studies crowd that for long has held a tight grip on girls is losing it . When you view youtube videos, a great deals of these tapes are women telling the true history - that men contributed a great deal to the progress of the American way of life .

It would be good to unite -let’s hope!

 

[Portrait]

Lobbyist groups such as National Organization for Women, Planned Parenthood, American Association for University Women, etc…

It is also the collection of literature that demonizes men while celebrating women as spotless benevolent angels.

Feminism is not just thinking women deserve to be treated better than seagull poo. Feminism is about “giving men what they deserve” and instilling a spirit of guilt in all men to make them pay for perceived crimes of the past. It is also about giving women unfettered and unchecked power to do as they see fit.

As someone said earlier, it would be great if we could unit under humanism. There is no reason why if feminism was ONLY about equality that it should be given a feminine label. The same is true of men’s rights. When black people demanded civil rights they didn’t call themselves blackists or institute blackism. The called it CIVIL RIGHTS because it was something for everyone. The fact that the word feminism even exists is troubling because it is almost like singling women out as something better than the rest.

Dear silentfactor80,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Jolly well said. Femenist ideology is the bane of the conntemporary Western world and needs to be denounced by Catholics in the strongest terms. Alas, its poisonious tenets have been embraced even by those who profess the holy religion of Christ, such is the extent if its influence since Sixties.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

 

[Nimzovik]

Excuse me - I read a bumper sticker once that said ‘anyone who believes that women deserve better than to be treated like a small deposit of seagull poo on the windscreen of life is a feminist’.

Since I presume you fall into that category, I guess you are indeed a feminist. It simply depends on your definition/understanding of what feminism is.

Now when I was very young, before I’d even heard the f word, I knew of women such as Elizabeth I and St Joan of Arc who did not fit the traditional mould whereby women were expected to marry or enter religious life if they were to have any status or impact. As well as women such as my mother and grandmother who combined well very active and involved parenting with demanding and satisfying work (in Mum’s case as a doctor) which contributed greatly to their communities.

I didn’t need to know the f word to be an f word, neither did they.

**Bolding Mine: **

I would assert that the term for those that care for women is **not **Feminist (especially so, in view of killing women in the womb that sooooo many Feminists argue in favor of.)

I should rather think the term should rightfully be …ahem… Catholic.

 

[Nimzovik]

I very rarely watch movies .Time after time on these forums there have been discussions about movies and what the USCCB allows - usual one that is brought up is Sclindlers List (R) nudity, language which is approved for viewing.

So now some well-done youtube videos on women and men issues and because there may be a few “choice” words in I am not suppose to watch th/em

Is this church teaching?

There is a a prolife group, Feminists for Life

Bolding Mine:

Yes. In regard to the bold, highlighted text, I echo your sentiments. We must engage the world where it lives and not seclude ourselves due to the perceived repulsiveness of the sinners sin. I, for one, will hear the laments of the flock, however those cries are offered.

We certainly do not have to become sinners ourselves and succumb to employing such language.

As for ‘Feminists for Life’ …are they 100% in compliance with the teachings of Holy Mother Church? If not, then why would a Catholic join them? Indeed, why would a Catholic join any Feminist group? The term we are discussing is Feminist. By it’s
very name it is exclsionary of 50% of the worlds population. Why on earth would I as a Catholic, label myself as this? No. I would never be a part of an organization that contributes to the **ignoring **of men yet once again. Not to mention that the Feminst brand is soooooo very tainted/associated in the Public consciousness via Abortion,contraception, man hating and Planned Parenthood just to name a few.

Advocate being a Feminist? Never. Whenever I am fortunate enough to be able to perform a ‘good work’ I give the credit to God, for it is He that then works in me. So. When I do this said good work I give the glory to God - not to Gloria Steinem. Nor to Gloria Allred.

 

[Armor_of_Light]

Dear silentfactor80,

Cordial greetings and a very good day. Jolly well said. Femenist ideology is the bane of the conntemporary Western world and needs to be denounced by Catholics in the strongest terms. Alas, its poisonious tenets have been embraced even by those who profess the holy religion of Christ, such is the extent if its influence since Sixties.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax

I would also venture a guess that the men of the '60’s had an equal share of responsibility for their capitulatization of attitudes and behaviour to the feminist cause.

Could it be that the problem began even earlier, say the '50’s… and the advent of rock-n-roll attitudes?

 

[Nimzovik]

I would also venture a guess that the men of the '60’s had an equal share of responsibility for their capitulatization of attitudes and behaviour to the feminist cause.

Could it be that the problem began even earlier, say the '50’s… and the advent of rock-n-roll attitudes?

Nimzovik Responds.

Indeed. The ‘unisex look’ of the sixties certainly contributed to such blurring of the lines of the sexes. I also have a hard time believing that AC/DC will playing concerts in heaven.

 

[Armor_of_Light]

Nimzovik Responds.

Indeed. The ‘unisex look’ of the sixties certainly contributed to such blurring of the lines of the sexes. I also have a hard time believing that AC/DC will playing concerts in heaven.

They are on the wrong highway for that!

 

[Crescentinus]

My own take on men’s rights is a little Catholic, which is weird seeing as a lot of the men’s rights activists I’ve seen aren’t Catholic.
I do not believe that men should go our own way separate from women. Why? Because men and women are complementary to each other. Also, if all the men go their own way as some men’s rights activists argue, then it would give a victory to the lesbian feminists and the misandric radical feminists who want men out of society altogether.
I do not want men and women killing each other over petty minutiae seeing as there are way bigger issues involved.

 

[gam197]

originally posted by Portrait
Cordial greetings and a very good day. Jolly well said. Femenist ideology is the bane of the conntemporary Western world and needs to be denounced by Catholics in the strongest terms. Alas, its poisonious tenets have been embraced even by those who profess the holy religion of Christ, such is the extent if its influence since Sixties.

Maybe it is semantics. The feminist movement started with the right to vote. Now you could call it something else if you would like but it was is this country throughout the 30’s,40’s and 50’s without a problem. Women went about their way doing work and taking care of their families just as the dads did.

During the 60’s this hatred of men and life came about. The under 40’s youtube generation is rejecting this as are the March for Life millions. The girls are prolife, rejecting abortion and many rejecting birth control. Many have joined the Men’s Right Group as they don’t know where to go and they are helpful in pointing out all the flaws of the movement and convincing the younger generation that the feminist leadership did a great deal of harm to woman.

As posters have stated, many catholic women have not embraced “feminism” because they understood to be catholic was to be pro-woman.

That is what this thread is calling for an understanding , stopping the division and embracing the faith.

originally posted by Nimzovik
We certainly do not have to become sinners ourselves and succumb to employing such language.

Not only should we not embrace it, we should try to correct it. Yet not to allow ourselves to get in the dialogue because in a half hour video, there are two swears doesn’t seem right.

 

[Crescentinus]

Maybe it is semantics. The feminist movement started with the right to vote. Now you could call it something else if you would like but it was is this country throughout the 30’s,40’s and 50’s without a problem. Women went about their way doing work and taking care of their families just as the dads did.

During the 60’s this hatred of men and life came about. The under 40’s youtube generation is rejecting this as are the March for Life millions. The girls are prolife, rejecting abortion and many rejecting birth control. Many have joined the Men’s Right Group as they don’t know where to go and they are helpful in pointing out all the flaws of the movement and convincing the younger generation that the feminist leadership did a great deal of harm to woman.

As posters have stated, many catholic women have not embraced “feminism” because they understood to be catholic was to be pro-woman.

That is what this thread is calling for an understanding , stopping the division and embracing the faith.

^This is what I want to happen.

 

[Nimzovik]

Crescentinus wrote: "
My own take on men’s rights is a little Catholic, which is weird seeing as a lot of the men’s rights activists I’ve seen aren’t Catholic.
I do not believe that men should go our own way separate from women. Why? Because men and women are complementary to each other. Also, if all the men go their own way as some men’s rights activists argue, then it would give a victory to the lesbian feminists and the misandric radical feminists who want men out of society altogether.
I do not want men and women killing each other over petty minutiae seeing as there are way bigger issues involved. "

Nimzovik Responds:

Yes. Very well said. Your paragraph is very Catholic IMHO.

No. Men’s Rights groups must learn from the glaring mistakes of the Feminists. Men’s groups should not allow themselves to be co-opted by a Politcal Party either IMHO. Unfortunatel I dare say that this just may be the ‘natural’ outcome reuslting from the Politics of today.

The Republicans are looking for a new Base for support. Methinks they just might tap into the, manufactured by Feminsts, Male angst that appears to be gaining audience in the public’s arena of Ideas.

 

[Crescentinus]

Yes. Very well said. Your paragraph is very Catholic IMHO.

No. Men’s Rights groups must learn from the glaring mistakes of the Feminists. Men’s groups should not allow themselves to be co-opted by a Politcal Party either IMHO. Unfortunatel I dare say that this just may be the ‘natural’ outcome reuslting from the Politics of today.

The Republicans are looking for a new Base for support. Methinks they just might tap into the, manufactured by Feminsts, Male angst that appears to be gaining audience in the public’s arena of Ideas.

I agree. Hence, men’s rights activists must not go their own way but rather, learn to live in unity and at the same time, go after the radical as well as lesbian feminism which have become mainstream. By the way, the idea of “men going their own way” (MGTOW) is highly similar to separatist feminism.

 

[Nimzovik]

Maybe it is semantics. The feminist movement started with the right to vote. Now you could call it something else if you would like but it was is this country throughout the 30’s,40’s and 50’s without a problem. Women went about their way doing work and taking care of their families just as the dads did.

During the 60’s this hatred of men and life came about. The under 40’s youtube generation is rejecting this as are the March for Life millions. The girls are prolife, rejecting abortion and many rejecting birth control. Many have joined the Men’s Right Group as they don’t know where to go and they are helpful in pointing out all the flaws of the movement and convincing the younger generation that the feminist leadership did a great deal of harm to woman.

As posters have stated, many catholic women have not embraced “feminism” because they understood to be catholic was to be pro-woman.

That is what this thread is calling for an understanding , stopping the division and embracing the faith.

Yes. Well said. (although the quote you quoted was not by me actually. )

 

[gam197]

Corrected. Thanks

 

[Nimzovik]

I agree. Hence, men’s rights activists must not go their own way but rather, learn to live in unity and at the same time, go after the radical as well as lesbian feminism which have become mainstream. By the way, the idea of “men going their own way” (MGTOW) is highly similar to separatist feminism.

Yes MGTOW is highly seperatist. Is it entirely by choice tho? Methinks much of the MGTOW faction is a move of frustration. Frustration with what secular women have become. Frustration with having their children aborted or denied to them. Frustrated with the slanted perspective of men by the legal system, and the precarious position they just might find themselves in, in terms of false dometic violence and rape allegations. Frustrated by being bankrupted by a biased legal system in terms of child custody and lawyers. Frustrated by Paternity Fraud not being recognized as the crime it is. Frustrated with having to pay child support for a child that was never even his to begin with,** and** being thrown into Debtors Prison at the whims of an ex - wife if unable to pay the support. They realize what Feminists have made of women today.

Methinks much of the MGTOW crowd would love to have a woman -with the proviso that said woman would be a decent person. Methinks MGTOW would be happy with a Catholic woman. Methinks there is indeed fertile ground here for the evangelizing Catholic.

Unfortunately, with so many Catholic women (and Gasp! men too! Oh no!) accepting the Feminist Label, it is understandable why the MGTOW people would be confused. Indeed. Are today’s Catholic women trully Catholic? Welllllllllllllllll… Given the number of women that ‘claim’ to be Catholic, yet use contraception, wellllllllllllllllll. One must wonder eh? And so do the MGTOW proponents.

 

[silentfactor80]

The part I’ve bolded is patently untrue. There are all sorts of people out there. Yes, some of them may claim to be feminist and believe these things. However, most women, myself included, just want to be treated equally. Some women like myself consider ourselves 1.) Catholic 2.) Pro-Life and 3.) (gasp!) a Feminist. Look at Susan B. Anthony and Elisabeth Cady Stanton, early feminists who garnered a women’s right to vote all the while being pro-life. See, as a feminist, I do believe that to be pro-women, pro-men, pro-human is to be pro-life. Thus, I know it’s a shocker, but us feministic pro-life women do exist out there. And, you know what? I have a boatload of respect for both women and men.

Please respond to the second part of my post where I said if you believe in equality you don’t have to be a feminist. As I said, black people didn’t create blackism or call themselves blackists to get get equal rights. They used a term everyone could unite under and it was genderless. It was called CIVIL RIGHTS.

Also, explain this article to me (huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/02/carla-bruni-apologizes-feminist-feminism_n_2227147.html). Why is when a woman renounces feminism she is made to apologize for it? Doesn’t she have free speech to speak her mind?