Mental illness and moral responsibility?

[DarkLight]

Uh I think the OP deserves the benefit of the doubt that they were asking said question in reference to someone they know intimately or was just curious and is asking from an intellectual level. I have seen nothing to suggest otherwise have you?

For background I have dealt with mental illness personally for several years…this is a question I have often thought about, particularly as the effects of my condition exacerbate an already somewhat scrupulous temperament. I’ve been trying to figure out a more…rigorous way of handling things that leaves less to my own subjective senses. I’m unfortunately in a bad spot with treatment - I can’t afford most places and the waiting list for the rest is months long.

Before anyone says it, I’m not settled enough anywhere to really have a priest to talk to (lots of moving around).

 

[TheRealJuliane]

How would we be able to judge? I mean not just outside, but from the standpoint of the person themselves? It seems difficult, from the stance of “I know I should do x but I’m not sure if I’m capable of doing x or not.” I know well enough that it’s almost impossible to tell depression and anxiety from laziness and cowardice, from many perspectives.

No, it’s not impossible to tell depression and anxiety from laziness and cowardice. Not if you’ve ever been depressed and/or anxious. And not if you’ve ever been around someone who is depressed and/or anxious. Panic attacks do not resemble cowardice. The fear/anxiety makes no sense in the context of what is objectively happening.

People who want to be lazy do not cry all the time, sleep a lot, not sleep at all, want to hurt themselves, isolate, want to commit suicide, feel hopeless, feel despair, have no energy, lose interest in normal activities. Lazy people don’t lose their sense of humor, feel empty, have no affect or expression, and lose their appetite or eat way more than usual. All of those describe what depression does to a person.

From inside depression, I would say that the condition makes it harder to actually commit serious sin. Sins of commission, that is. It takes a tremendous amount of energy just to minimally function, let alone go out and do something objectively wrong and mortally sinful.

And I would think that the sins of omission would be mitigated because the person is incapable of doing their normal duties, say, to be a wife and mother. Anyway, that would be a venial sin, I think.

ADHD is not a mental illness by the way. It’s called a “disorder” but many experts in the field believe it is merely a normal variation in the way human minds work.

 

[Nate13]

For background I have dealt with mental illness personally for several years…this is a question I have often thought about, particularly as the effects of my condition exacerbate an already somewhat scrupulous temperament. I’ve been trying to figure out a more…rigorous way of handling things that leaves less to my own subjective senses. I’m unfortunately in a bad spot with treatment - I can’t afford most places and the waiting list for the rest is months long.

Before anyone says it, I’m not settled enough anywhere to really have a priest to talk to (lots of moving around).

hmm I don’t think there is an easy answer. A lot of people who don’t have depression enter a similar kind of hazy area of morality with regards to masturbation.

The Catechism says:

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.

Thus someone who is struggling with it and an addiction to it faces a tough question regarding how morally responsible they are every time they fail as they try to beat the habit. You really need the guide of a priest in these matters even if you can’t make it with the same priest every time. Depression is a common enough matter that more than likely most priests would have some experience already giving guidance to people who are struggling with it.

 

[DarkLight]

TheRealJuliane;9119699**:

No, it’s not impossible to tell depression and anxiety from laziness and cowardice. Not if you’ve ever been depressed and/or anxious.

And not if you’ve ever been around someone who is depressed and/or anxious. Panic attacks do not resemble cowardice. The fear/anxiety makes no sense in the context of what is objectively happening.

People who want to be lazy do not cry all the time, sleep a lot, not sleep at all, want to hurt themselves, isolate, want to commit suicide, feel hopeless, feel despair, have no energy, lose interest in normal activities. Lazy people don’t lose their sense of humor, feel empty, have no affect or expression, and lose their appetite or eat way more than usual. All of those describe what depression does to a person.

From inside depression, I would say that the condition makes it harder to actually commit serious sin. Sins of commission, that is. It takes a tremendous amount of energy just to minimally function, let alone go out and do something objectively wrong and mortally sinful.

And I would think that the sins of omission would be mitigated because the person is incapable of doing their normal duties, say, to be a wife and mother. Anyway, that would be a venial sin, I think.

ADHD is not a mental illness by the way. It’s called a “disorder” but many experts in the field believe it is merely a normal variation in the way human minds work.

Please…this may be your experience, but it is not mine. In my experience…yes sometimes it was obviously unreasonable. But for me, many of the manifestations came about as exaggerations of what would be ordinary. The spectrum ran seamlessly between being overtired and not wanting to get out of bed, and being unable to summon the energy to move in the mornings. The ends are distinct, but most days don’t seem to be on either end. Same with anxiety - the reaction to events that would normally produce fear and stress was greater. How much greater is not obvious. Panic attacks might be obvious, but the time you are stuck in the women’s room trying and failing to nerve yourself for a difficult meeting? Not so obvious.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Please…this may be your experience, but it is not mine. In my experience…yes sometimes it was obviously unreasonable. But for me, many of the manifestations came about as exaggerations of what would be ordinary. The spectrum ran seamlessly between being overtired and not wanting to get out of bed, and being unable to summon the energy to move in the mornings. The ends are distinct, but most days don’t seem to be on either end. Same with anxiety - the reaction to events that would normally produce fear and stress was greater. How much greater is not obvious. Panic attacks might be obvious, but the time you are stuck in the women’s room trying and failing to nerve yourself for a difficult meeting? Not so obvious.

I am sorry that you have struggled with this, as I have. I would never wish these conditions on anyone. Not even my worst enemy…

I guess my depression is more severe.

 

[Jennet]

… the effects of my condition exacerbate an already somewhat scrupulous temperament. I’ve been trying to figure out a more…rigorous way of handling things that leaves less to my own subjective senses.

Strangely enough, as soon as I saw this thread I thought of this very problem… particularly with regard to depression, anxiety and some personality disorders. Our powers to examine our own consciences cannot be relied upon as our perception of ourselves tends to become rather skewed towards the negative.

I have a “mood disorder” and - just to complicate everything further - medium to high functioning autism. Realising that I am being impeded by the depressive facet of the mood disorder is easy to accept when it is most severe for (as TheRealJuliane said) I can do little more than sleep and cry at those times. At the other end of the scale, there are also times when I am very well and can accomplish a great deal…

But it’s the middle ground between these two poles that is most difficult. Should I try to push myself to do the things I can do when I am well, even though such attempts have so often caused me to become more unwell in the past? Am I dropping out of something because I can’t be bothered, or because I am exhausted and the thought of it makes me want to cry? Do I not want to do something because I naturally dislike it, or because it will be genuinely and dangerously stressful?

I’m sorry that I don’t really have any advice for you. As you may have noticed, I have more questions than answers. I just keep on praying that God will lead me to be able to discern between what it is wise for me to do, and what it is best for me to avoid! I am praying for you too.