Mental Illness: Faulty Neuro-Circuitry or Spiritual/Demonic Component?

[WhiteDove]

I really am torn and confused about this subject. Also, I’m skeptical about all the claims made by modern psychiatry, which usually ignores and denies the spiritual side of life.

It seems as if the trend in the past 20 years is to blame most weaknessess on genetic or congenital problems. Psychiatry has gone from psychotherapy to heavy reliance on pharmacuticals to relieve mental disorders, blaming everything from depression to sociopathic behaviour on chemical imbalances that are out of our control. It seems as if the idea of freewill and individual responsibilty are considered quaint and outmoded. And, the concept of sin is absolutely medieval, especially in the realm of sexual behaviour, leading to harmful repression.

Is this modern heresay? Are we letting an atheistic pychological industry redefine our outlook on the problem of sin and evil?

 

[hawkeye]

WhiteDove:

I really am torn and confused about this subject. Also, I’m skeptical about all the claims made by modern psychiatry, which usually ignores and denies the spiritual side of life.

It seems as if the trend in the past 20 years is to blame most weaknessess on genetic or congenital problems. Psychiatry has gone from psychotherapy to heavy reliance on pharmacuticals to relieve mental disorders, blaming everything from depression to sociopathic behaviour on chemical imbalances that are out of our control. It seems as if the idea of freewill and individual responsibilty are considered quaint and outmoded. And, the concept of sin is absolutely medieval, especially in the realm of sexual behaviour, leading to harmful repression.

Is this modern heresay? Are we letting an atheistic pychological industry redefine our outlook on the problem of sin and evil?

My friend, I don’t want to preach to you, but just let me say and I can back this up but at the minute I’m working from memory.
freemasonry has moved into every sector of our lives, it’s in the Church, & they always go for the top jobs, why ? because of influence (power)
Ok the Bible does say don’t neglect medical help, but if you go to these plausable people that smile you to death, with evil in their hearts, then do you think they want to help you ?
Over here in Ireland I have often heard"beware of those that bare the teeth" in otherwords they smile with their teeth and not with their heart, you can see it straight away because their eyes don’t even crease.
You my friend are going to people that only believe in the physical world, the Spiritual world doesn’t exsist, or at least the don’t want you to know it does.
Unless you can see a spiritual problem after trying the physical then it’s difficult.
Get back to me in the open forum or in private, I will respect your wishes.
Stephen

 

[MIDGIE]

WhiteDove:

Are we letting an atheistic pychological industry redefine our outlook on the problem of sin and evil?

I can understand your concern. I’ve never seen so many over-medicated, drug addicted people in my life! It seems to me if they threw their psychotrophic drugs away and went to confession instead, they wouldn’t need pills to get through each day. It appears pyschiatry has taken the place of the confessional in many people’s lives. Instead of realizing the wages of sin is spiritual death to them and repent of their sins, it’s easier to play the blame game or blame chemical imbalance for their problems. Sheesh!!!

God bless you

 

[Annunciata]

MIDGIE:

I can understand your concern. I’ve never seen so many over-medicated, drug addicted people in my life! It seems to me if they threw their psychotrophic drugs away and went to confession instead, they wouldn’t need pills to get through each day. It appears pyschiatry has taken the place of the confessional in many people’s lives. Instead of realizing the wages of sin is spiritual death to them and repent of their sins, it’s easier to play the blame game or blame chemical imbalance for their problems. Sheesh!!!

God bless you

Please keep in mind that when passing a judgement such as this, “unless you have walked in those ‘moccasins’ don’t judge…”.

 

[JCPhoenix]

<Originally Posted by MIDGIE
I can understand your concern. I’ve never seen so many over-medicated, drug addicted people in my life! It seems to me if they threw their psychotrophic drugs away and went to confession instead, they wouldn’t need pills to get through each day. It appears pyschiatry has taken the place of the confessional in many people’s lives. Instead of realizing the wages of sin is spiritual death to them and repent of their sins, it’s easier to play the blame game or blame chemical imbalance for their problems. Sheesh!!! >

This is very near and dear to me because my mother is bipolar and finally got the help she desperately needed when she tried to committ suicide.

The system, which “overmedicates”, also can do nothing without extreme circumstance…so in very blunt terms…until Mom went entirely off her rocker, no one could lock her up and force her to take the medication she needed to be able to live.

I have lived under the thumb of a person in the throes of mental illness (chemical imbalance) and she was (and is) an extremely devout Catholic. He Rosary turned GOLD when Desert Storm began, and I never before or in the time period of her illness saw her without her rosary. She is mentally ill and a saint to boot!

She was not beset by Satan, although without her religion she would have been VERY OPEN to an attack upon her soul and resultant possession.

I have also worked in mental health…and one woman actually looked me in the eye and told me that there wasn’t anything that could help her as she was possessed…and I can tell you her eyes had a very strange quality. I believe she had a chemical imbalance…but also that she wasn’t alone, if you get my meaning.

This is a complicated topic and I would encourage those of you with no direct experience with mental illness (through self or family members) to refrain from very judgmental comments.

I am still recovering from my Mother’s illness…and no, that’s not a typo. The damage done by chemical imbalances and the stigma inflicted upon the sufferer and their families is very far reaching.

It in fact is one of the reasons I do not want children. I do not want to impose such horrid genes upon my child, should I have one.

Please, be charitable. There are people who condemned my mother to hell because she was born with only one hand…and there are some who condemn her as possessed or faking due to a chemical imbalance.

These things hurt Jesus far more than they hurt me.

The mentally ill are naturally more open to spiritual attack because their defenses are disrupted. Without strong faith and prayer from others besides themselves, they would be lost. But through the Grace of God they are kept close to him and we are admonished to care for them for they are the “lesser” of us due to their disease.

Please, please withold hurtful comments against such people. They are very close to God and need prayers…not condemnation.

 

[Maggie]

WhiteDove:

I really am torn and confused about this subject. Also, I’m skeptical about all the claims made by modern psychiatry, which usually ignores and denies the spiritual side of life.

It seems as if the trend in the past 20 years is to blame most weaknessess on genetic or congenital problems. Psychiatry has gone from psychotherapy to heavy reliance on pharmacuticals to relieve mental disorders, blaming everything from depression to sociopathic behaviour on chemical imbalances that are out of our control. It seems as if the idea of freewill and individual responsibilty are considered quaint and outmoded. And, the concept of sin is absolutely medieval, especially in the realm of sexual behaviour, leading to harmful repression.

Is this modern heresy? Are we letting an atheistic pychological industry redefine our outlook on the problem of sin and evil?

And fifty years ago they did the same with cancer and diabetes… and before that leprosy. Should we stop treating illnesses at all because we can talk the people out of being ill? Or they should just go to confession and be healed? If you have read my posts you know my faith in God, you know my belief in His healing and that He has seen me through some incredibly rough and joyful times. But why do people insist on judging those with mental illness when they would not judge a diabetic? What good is talk therapy going to do for either?

I accept full personal responsibility for my actions and my choices. One of my choices is to take the medication that makes it possible for me to do more than merely fight to survive. I choose to be a contributing member of society rather than spending every ounce of energy struggling for survival. And I thank God for the courage to continue to take that medication in the face of such barbaric comments like some of those posted here and others that I get from people that make it sound as though I am a weak or immoral or faithless person because I accept the help that God has so graciously provided.

 

[dcmac]

White Dove, what affiliation with the mental health profession or the mentally sick do you have? Seriously? I want to know so I can consider your comments in light thereof.

1)“It seems as if the trend in the past 20 years is to blame most weaknessess on genetic or congenital problems.” – This is good. Intellectual growth within the discipline is good. Knowledge of mental illness has undergone a great growth in the past 40 or so years, with an explosion in the past 20 plus. Indeed we have barely scratched the surface, yet we have advanced in the past couple of decades at an exponential rate. There are real physiological reasons for a significant number of mental illnesses. To dismiss it so casually is reckless at best.

2)“Psychiatry has gone from psychotherapy to heavy reliance on pharmacuticals to relieve mental disorders, blaming everything from depression to sociopathic behaviour on chemical imbalances that are out of our control.”-- Wrong, wrong, wrong!!! Prudent & compassionate management of such illnesses requires mental health professionals attack the illness from all angles. There has not been a ‘great abandonment’ of the therapeutic approach in favor of an ‘over-doping’ one. Rather, prudent medication compliments regular therapy.

Further, depression is a chemical imbalance, as are other disorders like bipolar and anxiety at relatively opposite extremes. Sociopathic behavior is usually indicative of an extreme, if not irreversible, imbalance.

3)“It seems as if the idea of freewill and individual responsibilty are considered quaint and outmoded.”-- Are you actually suggesting that people will themselves to be bipolar or schizophrenic, or in a state of depression, or anxiety, or obsessive-compulsive? If so that is absurd.

I agree with you, however, that individual responsibility has been ignored like a redheaded stepchild and that free will has been perverted into a blanket OK for sin. Of course that is a societal phenomenon not merely a psychiatric one.

1. “And, the concept of sin is absolutely medieval, especially in the realm of sexual behaviour, leading to harmful repression.”-- I would venture that the concept of sin isn’t medieval enough! If that is your point I agree.

Good grief Charlie Brown…

Your unworthy brother in Christ and by the Grace of God a future priest,
Donnchadh mag Eochadha, Psy.D.

 

[dcmac]

1)“I’ve never seen so many over-medicated, drug addicted people in my life!” – What? What data are you using for this conclusion? Seriously? To make such a generalization as this, well, I must request you submit the data to support such a claim.

2)“It seems to me if they threw their psychotrophic drugs away and went to confession instead, they wouldn’t need pills to get through each day.” – I can’t believe you actually said and think this. Should we do the same for other illnesses? I mean, I had a bad kidney, so to heck with the meds and the surgeries…I will just throw them away and go to confession…that will fix it.

3)“It appears pyschiatry has taken the place of the confessional in many people’s lives. Instead of realizing the wages of sin is spiritual death to them and repent of their sins, it’s easier to play the blame game or blame chemical imbalance for their problems.” – So, if I understand you correctly you are saying that for example two of my family members (one a brother of a religious order and another a permanent deacon) who suffer from depression after the suicide of his brother/son can heal themselves if only they repent of their sins, quit playing the blame game for their great sorrow and depression, as well as the real chemical imbalance in his brain due to the prolonged state of depression? Give me a break…

4)“Sheesh!!!” – My sentiments exactly…

Your unworthy brother in Christ and by the Grace of God a future priest,

Donnchadh mag Eochadha, Psy.D.

 

[WhiteDove]

Hi.
What brought this subject up for me was. specifically, a patient I took care of Friday night. I’m am an RN and I work in a small community hospital. Although I don’t specialize in Psyche Nursing, in the natural course of my job I encounter many mentally ill people. Frankly, many of them are very manipulative and seem to have an evil influence on their lives. I’m not talking about run of the mill depression here, and I understand the need for psychotrophic medications in some cases although I do think they are very overused these days without examining nutrition, exersise, and spiritual issues.

The patient I cared for was a 29 year old anorexic/bulimic woman. Her main complaint last night was nausea. I’ve never seen someone complain so loudly about nausea, whimpering and whining, trying to get me to call the doctor for something to ‘knock her out’ She had been in, apparently, a few weeks ago and had gotten some narcotics at night, but this time the doctor was avoiding them, probably because of her mental health issues…

We had an order from social services to only allow her one bath per shift, because she was obsessed with taking them. She did request a bath in the middle of the night and I helped her into it. I noticed that she had a very trim body with a total tan, with no tan lines. She had some tattoos on her ankles, and several toe rings, along with perfectly done nails. Frankly, my impression of her was that she was suffering from an extreme case of vanity which had progressed into anorexia/bulemia. Her personality seemed utterly narcsisstic.

This woman was a the mother to a 16 month old baby. I got her to talking and apparently my patient’s own mother has been taking a lot of time off of work, caring for her and her baby. It made me judgemental of my patient that she could be so self centered when she had this vulnerable child. Normally I’m a very caring nurse, with a lot of compassion, but when I encounter a manipulative, demanding patient like this, I really have a hard time feeling any sympathy.

Anyways, it got me to thinking about freewill as it relates to mental health issues.

 

[petra]

Hi White Dove,

The background on your question is helpful. I think I would tend to have a similar assessment of someone like your patient, although there may be contributing biochemical factors. That’s certainly not an excuse to be a neglectful mother, but such factors may increase certain tendencies toward obsessive/compulsive behaviors, like excessive bathing.

In general [directing this to some of the previous posters], we humans are very complex! We have a physical, soulish, and spiritual component. These correspond to our 1) physiology, which includes brain chemistry; 2) our personality, mind, emotions, and will; 3) and the part of us that is capabable of having a relationship with God and hosting the Holy Spirit’s residence inside us. 1 Thess. 5:23 identifies us as being 3-part.

While these parts are distinct, we are so integrated as beings, the boundaries between body and soul or soul and spirit are sometimes fuzzy. The writer of Hebrews recognized this fuzziness and indicates that the Word of God is helpful in discerning what is soulish and what is spirit in our life. (Heb. 4: 12) These 3 parts to our being are very connected, and disorder in one area often affects others. Have you ever noticed that when you get the flu, it is easier to have your feelings hurt or feel like the future is bleak? Likewise, it is well documented that resentment and bitterness can create real pathologies in the body. So — we are complex beings.

That said, disorders in someone’s life may have a variety of factors. Biochemical imbalances are real and just as much a physiological disease as diabetes or cancer. And 2 people with the same apparent disorder (such as an eating disorder) may have very different originating factors. There are varying degrees in severity, too. It is impossible for any of us to completely and accurately judge someone else for their condition. We can judge people’s actions, but not their heart or degree of culpability.

Treatment for someone who displays symptoms of mental illness should be multifaceted to include medical treatment for the body; counseling for the soul; and prayer, scripture reading, and sacraments for the spirit.

For the record, I have struggled with depression most of my life and, in college, I had an eating disorder. The root of it all was hormonal imbalance, but the Lord needed to do some spiritual work in me too. I also benefited from counseling to learn how to deal with some childhood emotional injuries. Even after the emotional and spiritual healing, the dysthymic symptoms remained. Thank God I was able to have medical treatment for the physical problems. Correcting my hormonal deficiencies has made a huge difference.

 

[Bonnie]

Normally I’m a very caring nurse, with a lot of compassion, but when I encounter a manipulative, demanding patient like this, I really have a hard time feeling any sympathy.

Anyways, it got me to thinking about freewill as it relates to mental health issues.

This is understandable - I have very little patience with the mentally ill & I’m one of them!

I have chronic depression, ADD, & only God knows what else. Before I got on medication, my condition made life hell for my dh & children. I would blame them for how I felt, accuse them of saying negative things to me (which they didn’t), & spend days crying. Because of the up & down cycles I was sometimes normal, sometimes not, & no one could predict how I would be on any particular day.

We know a lot of mentally ill people (we’ve often joked about having magnets in our pockets!) & some are more difficult to deal with than others.

I believe, from my experience, that mental illness does open one up to demonic influence. Without medication, or if I need a change in dosage, I can find myself believeing that I have no faith, that “people” want me out of the Church, & so on. I have trouble praying & trusting God. I often think that God doesn’t exist. With medication, my faith is strong.

People who self-medicate - like the woman you mentioned - can be very demanding & unpleasant. I know I was! With correct medication, they can use their free will in a more mature way.

Even if you can’t feel compassion, you can still pray for these unfortunates.

 

[Annunciata]

Maggie:

And fifty years ago they did the same with cancer and diabetes… and before that leprosy. Should we stop treating illnesses at all because we can talk the people out of being ill? Or they should just go to confession and be healed? If you have read my posts you know my faith in God, you know my belief in His healing and that He has seen me through some incredibly rough and joyful times. But why do people insist on judging those with mental illness when they would not judge a diabetic? What good is talk therapy going to do for either?

I accept full personal responsibility for my actions and my choices. One of my choices is to take the medication that makes it possible for me to do more than merely fight to survive. I choose to be a contributing member of society rather than spending every ounce of energy struggling for survival. And I thank God for the courage to continue to take that medication in the face of such barbaric comments like some of those posted here and others that I get from people that make it sound as though I am a weak or immoral or faithless person because I accept the help that God has so graciously provided.

Maggie & The Compassionate Ones,

I’m crying reading your posts…thanks for having the courage and empathy to discuss your feelings and personal experiences w/ these ‘problems’,
I have suffered my whole life w/ Anxiety Disorder
(an inherited thing in my family). And, I am appalled by the rash judgements that some have displayed in their posts! Where is your Christian Charity?
I think these people must be very angry and unhappy or something to attack the vulnerable in this manner…and, they had better take a good look at themselves before passing another judgement such as this on any other of God’s children…especially ones in their care!

 

[cmom]

There are a lot of truly sick people out there: physically, emotionally, spiritually. While many of us can be helped by medication, there are zillions of people who could be helped by simply making an honest regular on to a good priest.
I think that is what the first poster was trying to get across.

 

[JCPhoenix]

White Dove, I also thank you for the background to your question.

I have done extensive work with the mentally ill (especially adolescents) and what you were describing may have been borderline personalily…and what a case!

Now, those same behaviors also go along with her disease of anorexia/bulemia.

For those who may not understand the roots of that disease: it typically begins in adolescence and the patients are typically very intelligent. They are driven hard by their parents, tend to come from very good families with strict regulations and demanding of results.

The people with the illness feel that they have no control, so they find ways to control their lives…which often begins with food. It may start as a desire to lose weight or find approval from the parents, then goes into a very adolescent attitude of “Ha, ha, look at me, you cant’ made me do anything!”

It’s all about control and manipulation. White Dove, the woman you described was all about manipulation and apparently she’s learned that whining and being a pain in everyone’s you know what gets results.

The best way to handle people like that is to stand firm. Set limits, respond to acceptable behavior only, and tell them very directly that they are behaving in a very manipulative manner and niether you nor anyone else there will stand for it. Demand that she/he make requests in a civilized manner, and be sure to carry through and assist them when they acquiesce to this.

Part of healing is being held accountable; and too many bleeding hearts are too caught up in “accepting the illness” to remember that human dignity is also dependent upon the very person in question.

I don’t mean to sound harsh, but I, too have little patience with the mentally ill. the system that tries to hard to help sometimes enables the behaviors even further. That’s not good for them, and it’s not good for their families, when all everyone wants is healing and the ability to cope.

Very complex issue.

 

[Annunciata]

cmom:

There are a lot of truly sick people out therehysically, emotionally, spiritually. While many of us can be helped by medication, there are zillions of people who could be helped by simply making an honest regular on to a good priest.
I think that is what the first poster was trying to get across.

I agree w/ you on that a good old fashioned Confession could be of some help if you go to a sympathetic and priest trained in this area. I know of some who have emotional problems who were scarred even worse by some priests and driven into even deeper problems w/ guilt imposed upon them by the priest’s direction. I worked for the Church for many years and have met many excellent priests and sadly, many not so great…so I guess what I’m saying is I am not just making an idle statement.

 

[WhiteDove]

Dear Annunciata,
You sound very meaning in your post, but if you are refering to me and my assessment of my patient, I would ask you kindly to walk a mile in the shoes of health care workers and the difficult jobs that we have before you make a judgement! We are dealing with the public on a very intimate level, with often a great deal of pressures and limited resources. Nursing is a very difficult job and a holy vocation, IMO.

Believe me, I treat all of my patients equally, and with professionsal standards, but I can’t help but notice if I have a patient with a severe character flaw. I also meet some incredibly spiritual people who face suffering with nobilty and patience! So, please withhold your own judgements until you are better acquainted with the complexities of caring for the sick and dying. I could tell you some stories that would make your hair curl, but others that would uplift your soul!

sincerely, WhiteDove

 

[Bonnie]

Believe me, I treat all of my patients equally, and with professionsal standards, but I can’t help but notice if I have a patient with a severe character flaw.

I hope you aren’t equating mental illness with character flaws! For many years I thought I had a character flaw & a weak will. So did all the therapists I talked with. We were all convinced that I could change if I really wanted to. But I couldn’t. I needed medication to be able to act the way I really wanted to.

 

[Irene]

Hello,
I’m a 17-year-old Catholic high schooler with major depression and anxiety. I take 30 mg of Prozac per day, in addition to monthly counseling and private prayer. I’ve been struggling for six months, but with professional help for the last three. Yes, God was always there with me, but in the deep blue sorrow of an “episode” I couldn’t see Him! The med has put my mind back on an even keel, to where I feel God’s love and mercy, not only His judgement.
My faith is a big part of my identity, and identity issues triggered the illness, so Faith has been on the table during counseling. My therapist is very understanding and knowledgeable about Catholicism. She has never tried to deny the spiritual component of my illness, but she has helped to place my identity issues in a healthier light.
For a girl who saw *The Exorcist *at 13 at a slumber party, requiring that her mother be summoned to take her home, the idea of demonic possession surrounding the mentally ill strikes a cord. I did feel that Satan watched and waited for his moment while I was in my hole of despair, but it never came. Possession is real, but that doesn’t (or shouldn’t) deny that our bodies and brains are real, too. God declared them good.
In Christ’s peace,
Irené

 

[Annunciata]

Irene:

Hello,
I’m a 17-year-old Catholic high schooler with major depression and anxiety. I take 30 mg of Prozac per day, in addition to monthly counseling and private prayer. I’ve been struggling for six months, but with professional help for the last three. Yes, God was always there with me, but in the deep blue sorrow of an “episode” I couldn’t see Him! The med has put my mind back on an even keel, to where I feel God’s love and mercy, not only His judgement.
My faith is a big part of my identity, and identity issues triggered the illness, so Faith has been on the table during counseling. My therapist is very understanding and knowledgeable about Catholicism. She has never tried to deny the spiritual component of my illness, but she has helped to place my identity issues in a healthier light.
For a girl who saw *The Exorcist *at 13 at a slumber party, requiring that her mother be summoned to take her home, the idea of demonic possession surrounding the mentally ill strikes a cord. I did feel that Satan watched and waited for his moment while I was in my hole of despair, but it never came. Possession is real, but that doesn’t (or shouldn’t) deny that our bodies and brains are real, too. God declared them good.
In Christ’s peace,
Irené

Irene, God Love you! I have been crying on and off for a while…these testemonies are so touching…thanks for the courage to speak about your struggle…God only permits an evil to draw a greater good!

 

[petra]

Irene:

Hello,
I’m a 17-year-old Catholic high schooler with major depression and anxiety. I take 30 mg of Prozac per day, in addition to monthly counseling and private prayer. I’ve been struggling for six months, but with professional help for the last three. Yes, God was always there with me, but in the deep blue sorrow of an “episode” I couldn’t see Him! The med has put my mind back on an even keel, to where I feel God’s love and mercy, not only His judgement.

Irene, I’m so glad you’re getting some benefit from your medical care and counseling. I know exactly what you mean by the “deep blue sorrow”. My prayers are with you as you emerge from this difficult time. I’m so glad you’re experiencing God’s love and mercy now!