Mental Illness: Faulty Neuro-Circuitry or Spiritual/Demonic Component?

[Maggie]

JCPhoenix:

I don’t know your specific experiences with bipolar, but I would like you to understand that my first act as an 18 year old was to sign a 72-hour-hold order on my mother after she had attempted suicide.

I want you to understand that although I was just starting out in life, at a time that I desperately needed my parents, I had neither. My father had died, and my mother was calling me several times per week for advice she should not have needed. In effect, I became her parent…and I am still struggling with that dichotomy, although she is better now.

I understand and I empathize. I dropped out of college after my second year because I couldn’t take the daily phone calls that would be anywhere from an hour to six hours long. My room-mate called me a “mommy’s girl” but little did she understand that I was the one doing the parenting. The night before my chemistry final my mother kept me on the phone for six hours. Mind you I was a chemistry major. She’d been talking about suicide at that point for three weeks. I decided that summer I needed to be there rather than at school. Thankfully she never attempted it (unless you count totalling seven cars) but she didn’t even get diagnosed for another 13 years. At that point she’d been in therapy for well over 25 years.

JCPhoenix:

I was flailing in my early career life, I had no support even from extended family for my career choice, I did not know anyone in the large metro area I had entered…and yet, I had somehow to emotionally support the parent I needed to support me!

God Bless you for doing so. I am sure plenty of people didn’t understand your burden or your choices, but in your heart you understood that something wasn’t right and you couldn’t just abandon her. But there’s a price to pay for that, and I haven’t figured out when we stop paying it.

JCPhoenix:

I still don’t feel like I can lean on my mother, and I’m sure she doesn’t feel like she can lean on me…and finally, it’s almost the “right” time for her to be able to do so.

My therapist reprimanded me for that. She had to tell me that what mom expects of me now is acceptable. But that is how distorted our views become… we are so accustomed to the irrationality of their demands that we fall into the trap occassionally of writing them all off as such… I know that I and my siblings will never feel as though we will be able to rely on mom, although she is healthier now than she has ever been. It’s been necessary to excise that expectation out of our relationship with her. We still love her, but we know we cannot rely on her.

JCPhoenix:

Mental illness does not just cause suffering to those who have the diseases…it causes waves of suffering around it.

Sometimes for generations to come.

JCPhoenix:

Thank the Lord that Jesus is with us or we would all be crushed under the weight.

 

[clarkal]

This post is directed toward those who said that being mentally ill makes one vulnerable to demonic possession.

If you truly believe that this is true, then I must inform you that you are not worshipping a loving god, but a cruel and sadistic one who would allow such a heinous thing as demonic possession to occur in the already heavily burdened mentally ill person.

This god is the mentally ill one, and I will never worship him.

Clarkal

 

[Maggie]

clarkal:

This post is directed toward those who said that being mentally ill makes one vulnerable to demonic possession.

If you truly believe that this is true, then I must inform you that you are not worshipping a loving god, but a cruel and sadistic one who would allow such a heinous thing as demonic possession to occur in the already heavily burdened mentally ill person.

This god is the mentally ill one, and I will never worship him.

Clarkal

Being one of those, I know I said (or intended) spiritual/demonic attacks. And God doesn’t allow them. In fact God protects us from them. They happen. We are more vulnerable then. People can do and do do many things to bring on possession, but mental illness is not necessarily one of those. But spiritual attacks happen to both the healthy and the ill, and the mentally ill do not have all of their faculties when being attacked which is why if they commit suicide in the depths of despair we must be especially careful not to render human judgment on them as we cannot know how much consent they rendered upon the act. If you are looking for an excuse to not believe in God, please use a different one. We have enough problems to deal with in coping with mental illness than being blamed for your lack of faith. If you suffer from mental illness or know someone who does, get on your knees and go to God, for it is only with Him that there is any hope. We are here to support you, but you need Him first and foremost.

 

[dcmac]

clarkal:

This post is directed toward those who said that being mentally ill makes one vulnerable to demonic possession.

If you truly believe that this is true, then I must inform you that you are not worshipping a loving god, but a cruel and sadistic one who would allow such a heinous thing as demonic possession to occur in the already heavily burdened mentally ill person.

This god is the mentally ill one, and I will never worship him.

What God do you worship? Do you worship God at all? OR is your vision of God rose-colored?

The one, true God has always allowed evil to befall his people whom He loves. This does not make Him “mentally ill” or anything of the sort. Poor Job was afflicted with loss of family, loss of property, and physical illness. Indeed God allowed Satan to essentially devour Job…and unjustly for that matter (Job is the most wonderful book to read for those who suffer anything in any manner). Everything has a purpose. In suffering we learn much and, hopefully, move ever closer to God. God only allows any affliction, whether natural or supernatural, to befall any of us to better, or refine us. Just as the blade is heated and beaten and heated and beaten time and again until it becomes a masterpiece of weaponry, so too are we in order to become a masterpiece of weaponry in the war between Holiness and Evil.

In truth ill people are more susceptible than others are to more physical illness and even spiritual illness. When you are engaged in a serious battle already you are weak and less able to fight off another attack. We see this in the physical world with ailments being very opportunistic and aggressive. So it should come as no surprise to us that those who physically suffer are at greater risk of spiritual illness; that may mean anything from questioning of or the outright loss of faith, or perhaps, oppression or possession.

How many times have we heard someone who receives bad news of any kind and the first thing said is, “why me?” My question is always, “why not?” In the end we must remember that God allowed His only begotten son, Jesus, the God-man, to suffer in a most unjust manner. The reason He did so was because through that suffering He was able to Redeem us and by doing so show us the way in which we can be co-redeemers with him, as St. Paul tells us. Jesus tells us we must pick up our cross and follow Him; that is to say we must embrace our trials and sufferings and use them to come closer to Him. If God allows Jesus to suffer unjustly for a greater benefit, why not us? Re-examine this one through meditation on the Passion. I suggest Thomas Moore’s writings for this.

Your unworthy brother in Christ and by the Grace of God a future priest,
Donnchadh

 

[Maggie]

dcmac:

What God do you worship? Do you worship God at all? OR is your vision of God rose-colored?

The one, true God has always allowed evil to befall his people whom He loves. This does not make Him “mentally ill” or anything of the sort. Poor Job was afflicted with loss of family, loss of property, and physical illness. Indeed God allowed Satan to essentially devour Job…and unjustly for that matter (Job is the most wonderful book to read for those who suffer anything in any manner). Everything has a purpose. In suffering we learn much and, hopefully, move ever closer to God. God only allows any affliction, whether natural or supernatural, to befall any of us to better, or refine us. Just as the blade is heated and beaten and heated and beaten time and again until it becomes a masterpiece of weaponry, so too are we in order to become a masterpiece of weaponry in the war between Holiness and Evil.

In truth ill people are more susceptible than others are to more physical illness and even spiritual illness. When you are engaged in a serious battle already you are weak and less able to fight off another attack. We see this in the physical world with ailments being very opportunistic and aggressive. So it should come as no surprise to us that those who physically suffer are at greater risk of spiritual illness; that may mean anything from questioning of or the outright loss of faith, or perhaps, oppression or possession.

How many times have we heard someone who receives bad news of any kind and the first thing said is, “why me?” My question is always, “why not?” In the end we must remember that God allowed His only begotten son, Jesus, the God-man, to suffer in a most unjust manner. The reason He did so was because through that suffering He was able to Redeem us and by doing so show us the way in which we can be co-redeemers with him, as St. Paul tells us. Jesus tells us we must pick up our cross and follow Him; that is to say we must embrace our trials and sufferings and use them to come closer to Him. If God allows Jesus to suffer unjustly for a greater benefit, why not us? Re-examine this one through meditation on the Passion. I suggest Thomas Moore’s writings for this.

Your unworthy brother in Christ and by the Grace of God a future priest,
Donnchadh

You are going to teach me, however unwillingly, to temper my response. I am going to learn patience in dealing with those who judge us and God when dealing with mental illness through your incredibly reasoned and appropriate responses. God Bless you. Thank you for teaching me humility.

 

[Maresiedotes]

clarkal:

I must inform you that you are not worshipping a loving god, but a cruel and sadistic one who would allow such a heinous thing as demonic possession to occur in the already heavily burdened mentally ill person.

This god is the mentally ill one, and I will never worship him.

Clarkal

I’m on my lunch hour, so I don’t have a whole lot of time. However, I have a feeling that maybe you’ve experienced something that has been very hard for you to handle or understand in your life. I detect immense hurt in your response. We’re good listeners, if you’d care to talk about it. If not, then that’s okay, too. Just know that the God we worship is a loving God, who gives grace for difficult moments, and that many times His grace comes in the form of those who reach out to help us in those difficult times. Clarkal, I’ll be praying for you…God bless you!

Mary

 

[Annunciata]

Maggie:

You are going to teach me, however unwillingly, to temper my response. I am going to learn patience in dealing with those who judge us and God when dealing with mental illness through your incredibly reasoned and appropriate responses. God Bless you. Thank you for teaching me humility.

Maggie,
Isn’t that the truth…we are all here to help each other…Isn’t The Mystical Body of Christ Awesome! Love & Prayers, Annunciata

 

[clarkal]

Maggie:

Being one of those, I know I said (or intended) spiritual/demonic attacks. And God doesn’t allow them. In fact God protects us from them. They happen. We are more vulnerable then. People can do and do do many things to bring on possession, but mental illness is not necessarily one of those. But spiritual attacks happen to both the healthy and the ill, and the mentally ill do not have all of their faculties when being attacked which is why if they commit suicide in the depths of despair we must be especially careful not to render human judgment on them as we cannot know how much consent they rendered upon the act. If you are looking for an excuse to not believe in God, please use a different one. We have enough problems to deal with in coping with mental illness than being blamed for your lack of faith. If you suffer from mental illness or know someone who does, get on your knees and go to God, for it is only with Him that there is any hope. We are here to support you, but you need Him first and foremost.

You are reading too much into my post. My point was that a loving god allowing demonic possession in mentally ill patients seems rather incompatible with his nature and makes him look like a monster. I think that this view stems from superstition, not reason.

 

[dcmac]

clarkal:

You are reading too much into my post. My point was that a loving god allowing demonic possession in mentally ill patients seems rather incompatible with his nature and makes him look like a monster. I think that this view stems from superstition, not reason.

What??? Incredible…all I can say is…incredible.

Your unworthy brother in Christ and by the Grace of God a future priest,
Donnchadh

 

[clarkal]

dcmac:

What God do you worship? Do you worship God at all? OR is your vision of God rose-colored?

The one, true God has always allowed evil to befall his people whom He loves. This does not make Him “mentally ill” or anything of the sort. Poor Job was afflicted with loss of family, loss of property, and physical illness. Indeed God allowed Satan to essentially devour Job…and unjustly for that matter (Job is the most wonderful book to read for those who suffer anything in any manner). Everything has a purpose. In suffering we learn much and, hopefully, move ever closer to God. God only allows any affliction, whether natural or supernatural, to befall any of us to better, or refine us. Just as the blade is heated and beaten and heated and beaten time and again until it becomes a masterpiece of weaponry, so too are we in order to become a masterpiece of weaponry in the war between Holiness and Evil.

In truth ill people are more susceptible than others are to more physical illness and even spiritual illness. When you are engaged in a serious battle already you are weak and less able to fight off another attack. We see this in the physical world with ailments being very opportunistic and aggressive. So it should come as no surprise to us that those who physically suffer are at greater risk of spiritual illness; that may mean anything from questioning of or the outright loss of faith, or perhaps, oppression or possession.
Your unworthy brother in Christ and by the Grace of God a future priest,
Donnchadh

I do not worship any god, but my vision of a loving god does not include allowing demonic possession of a paranoid schizophrenic who believes that his goldfish is going to murder him while he sleeps at night. I am not talking about Job here. I am talking about people with real mental illnesses that burden them so much that they cannot function like a normal human being.

 

[clarkal]

dcmac:

What??? Incredible…all I can say is…incredible.

Your unworthy brother in Christ and by the Grace of God a future priest,
Donnchadh

Funny. That’s exactly what I have been saying about your loving god that allows – or “permits” – demonic possession of mentally ill people. Incredible.

 

[Pro_Iesu]

Being 17 I’ve always found this to be an intersting topic liking both medicine and the Power of the Lord. What I’ve learned is that there are Mental Illnesses that are natural and then there are those resulting from Demonic possesion. Thus the church doesn’t allow exorcisms for every single case and each case must be reviewed and an exorcism is granted after all other possibilities are exhausted.

many Exorcist preists have good relationships with psychiatrists and ask for assitance in their ministry.

So yes to both just that most are natural. With the culture of death there has been a rise in demonic possesion and demonic oppresion focusing on those who don’t believe in God and those who reject him totally and give themselves over to superstition witchcraft quija satanism new age etc.

It may seem scary but thats what the truth is.

And when demonic oppression( when the evil ones attack you controlling objects, inclining you to sin more often than normal, paranormal activities) occurs its either to strengthen the faith of a believer (God knows what you can handle and being a beleiver just pray to st. michael, pray the rosary, pray to our savior Jesus, get help from your priest, and God will save you!) or are the result of occult practices.

Read the books by Fr Amorth they are insightful into what is being discussed here and will help strengthen your faith.
And he discusses it way better than I can( far better wording)

good luck dcmak with becoming a priest alleluia! stay as true to the faith as you are now! and don’t ever rule out the exstence of Satan and posession for it is harder to fight an enemy you don’t belive exists than to fight one who has already lost and fights in vain to take as many souls with him.( I know you prolly know that I’m just reiterating)

clarkal learn the truth about what the church teaches about the evil one it will surprise you!

Peace and God Bless

 

[dcmac]

**Patron saints of mental illness and those who minister to them:

• Benedict Joseph Labre
• Bibiana
• Christina the Astonishing
• Drogo
• Dymphna
• Eustochium of Padua
• Filla
• Giles
• Job
• Margaret of Cortona
• Maria Fortunata Viti
• Medard
• Michelina
• Osmund
• Raphael
• Romanus of Condat
• Veran

My two favorites are Sts. Dymhna and Christina the Astonishing and I will post a brief bio on them from: **http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/pst00465.htm and my next two are Sts.Eustochium of Padua and Job.

 

[dcmac]

St. Dymhna
Also known as Dympna; Dimpna

Memorial
15 May

Profile
Daughter of a pagan Irish chieftain named Damon, and a beautiful devoted Christian woman whose name has not come down to us. Her mother died when Dymphna was a teenager. Her father searched the Western world for a woman to replace his wife, but none could. Returning home, he saw that his daughter was as beautiful as her mother, and maddened by grief, he made advances on her. She fought him off, then fled to Belgium with Saint Gerebernus, an elderly priest and family friend.

Dymphna’s father searched for them, and his search led to Belgium. There an innkeeper refused to accept his money, knowing it was difficult to exchange. This told Damon that his daughter was close - it would be unusual for a village innkeeper to know a lot about foreign currency, and his knowledge indicated that had recently seen it. The king concentrated his search in the area. When he found them in Gheel, he beheaded Gerebernus, and demanded that Dymphna surrender to him. She refused, and he killed her in a rage.

The site where she died is known for its miraculous healings of the insane and possessed. There is now a well-known institution on the site, and her relics are reported to cure insanity and epolepsy.

Patronage
against sleepwalking, against epilepsy, epileptics, family happiness, incest victims, insanity, loss of parents, martyrs, mental asylums, mental disorders, mental health caregivers, mental health professionals, mental hospitals, mental illness, mentally ill people, nervous disorders, neurological disorders, possessed people, princesses, psychiatrists, rape victims, runaways, sleepwalkers, therapists

 

[dcmac]

St. Christina the Astonishing

Also known as
Christina Mirabilis

Memorial
24 July

Profile
Born to a peasant family, orphaned as a child, and raised by two older sisters. At age 21, she experienced a severe seizure of what may have been epilepsy. It was so severe as to be cateleptic, and she was thought to have died. During her funeral Mass, she suddenly recovered, and levitated to the roof of the church. Ordered down by the priest, she landed on the altar and stated that she had been to hell, purgatory, and heaven, and had been returned to earth with a ministry to pray for souls in purgatory.

Her life from that point became a series of strange incidents cataloged by a Thomas de Cantimpré, Dominican professor of theology at Louvain who was a contemporary recorded his information by interviewin witnesses, and by Cardinal Jacques de Vitny who knew her personally. She exhibited both unusual traits and abilities. For example, she could not stand the odor of other people because she could smell the sin in them, and would climb trees or buildings, hide in ovens or cupboards, or simply levitate to avoid contact. She lived in a way that was considered poverty even in the 13th century, sleeping on rocks, wearing rags, begging, and eating what came to hand. She would roll in fire or handle it without harm, stand in freezing water in the winter for hours, spend long periods in tombs, or allow herself to be dragged under water by a mill wheel, though she never sustained injury. Given to ecstasies during which she led the souls of the recently dead to purgatory, and those in purgatory to paradise.

People who knew her were divided in their opinions: she was a holy woman, touched of God, and that her actions and torments were simulations of the experiences of the souls in purgatory; she was suffering the torments of devils - or she was flatly insane. However, the prioress of Saint Catherine’s convent testified that no matter how bizarre or excessive Christina’s reported actions, she was always completely obedient to the prioresses orders. Friend of Louis, Count of Looz, whose castle she visited, and whose actions she rebuked. Blessed Marie of Oignies thought well of her, and Saint Lutgardis sought her advice.

Born
1150 at Brusthem near Liege, Belgium

Died
24 July, 1224 at Saint Catherine’s convent, of natural causes

Beatified
popular devotion existed and continues, but no formal beatification has taken place; unknown if any cause is before the Congregation; because of lack for formal designation, she is sometimes listed as Saint Christina, sometimes as Blessed Christina

Patronage
insanity, lunatics, madness, mental disorders, mental handicaps, mental health caregivers, mental health professionals, mental illness, mentally ill people, psychiatrists, therapists

 

[dcmac]

Maggie and Annunciata,
Your kind words are much appreciated, but I don’t know if they are merited on my part. One of my chief sins is an ability to jump into a fight; anger. Just like St. Louis de Montfort was prone to anger, I am as well. In many ways I admire the fact that he would go to the bars and clobber the disrespectful men there and then preach to them the next day. Man, while that is not good, to this Irishman, that is very much a humorous, if not admirable trait. Yet, I am trying very hard to overcome this sin. I hope to obtain that humility that is so much a virtue.

Pro Iesu,
That is good advice and I will always do my best to keep it. Thank you.

Clarkal,
What can I say? Given your intentional treatment of the Holy Name by de-capitalizing the initial letter, one could have reasonably assumed you were not a believer. So, as you are not a believer, I can’t expect you to understand anything about God’s nature - even believers have a hard time with it. If you reject God, you reject knowledge of God. So, what else can I say? Not much…except that I will pray for you specifically…I hope that does not offend you…but as Fr. John Corapi, SOLT is prone to say, ‘at some time you have to offend others by praying for them’.

Your unworthy brother in Christ and by the Grace of God a future priest,
Donncadh

 

[Gratias_Grace]

WhiteDove:

I really am torn and confused about this subject. Also, I’m skeptical about all the claims made by modern psychiatry, which usually ignores and denies the spiritual side of life.

It seems as if the trend in the past 20 years is to blame most weaknessess on genetic or congenital problems. Psychiatry has gone from psychotherapy to heavy reliance on pharmacuticals to relieve mental disorders, blaming everything from depression to sociopathic behaviour on chemical imbalances that are out of our control. It seems as if the idea of freewill and individual responsibilty are considered quaint and outmoded. And, the concept of sin is absolutely medieval, especially in the realm of sexual behaviour, leading to harmful repression.

Is this modern heresay? Are we letting an atheistic pychological industry redefine our outlook on the problem of sin and evil?

I found this tread now and want to say something. (I have not read the other answers).

Mental illness exists. So do demons. BUT WE MUST NEVER CONFUSE MENTALLY DISTURBED MORE THEN THEY ARE AND CALL THEM POSSESED! They are to be respected the way they are and need all the support avaliable

An exorsist is NOT to do exorsism if the person is declared mentally ill!

About heavy reliance on “pharmacuticals” : Well, some doctors describe pills too easy, but we must also remember that today people can be helped by pharmacia that in earlier times was doomed to be hospitalized for the whole life. (I know because I have worked in a mental hospital).

There are more then chemical imbalances in a mentally disturbed persons life. It is personal history, family history, heritage, vulnarabillity, traumas, etc. etc AND chemical imbalances . Not one factor alone contribute to the mental disturbance.

You made a very interstening question : Are we letting an atheistic pychological industry redefine our outlook on the problem of sin and evil?

May be , may be! There are lots of good psychologists and psychiatrists in the world, but the problem is that so many of them are atheistic. That can, at worst, lead people away from God.

Catholics should use catholic psychologists. If you know anyone who need psychological treatment, may be this is the rigth place to start:

ipsciences.edu/CPI_resources.html

(Please excuse any spellingmistakes. English is not my first language).

God Bless!

G.G.

 

[Gratias_Grace]

MIDGIE:

I can understand your concern. I’ve never seen so many over-medicated, drug addicted people in my life! It seems to me if they threw their psychotrophic drugs away and went to confession instead, they wouldn’t need pills to get through each day. It appears pyschiatry has taken the place of the confessional in many people’s lives. Instead of realizing the wages of sin is spiritual death to them and repent of their sins, it’s easier to play the blame game or blame chemical imbalance for their problems. Sheesh!!!

God bless you

Reading this made me angry. It’s unbelieable that someone can think it’s an either/or!

People on drugs (leagaly prescribed) are being helped so that they are able to live a normaly life wich INCLUDES going to confession.

Read more and get updated!!!

G.G.

 

[clarkal]

dcmac:

Clarkal,
What can I say? Given your intentional treatment of the Holy Name by de-capitalizing the initial letter, one could have reasonably assumed you were not a believer. So, as you are not a believer, I can’t expect you to understand anything about God’s nature - even believers have a hard time with it. If you reject God, you reject knowledge of God. So, what else can I say? Not much…except that I will pray for you specifically…I hope that does not offend you…but as Fr. John Corapi, SOLT is prone to say, ‘at some time you have to offend others by praying for them’.

Your unworthy brother in Christ and by the Grace of God a future priest,
Donncadh

I used to be an orthodox Catholic, so I have a decent grasp of Catholic theology. However, I do not recall reading anything about mentally ill people being more prone to demonic possession than mentally healthy individuals, so I took this view to be understood as being someone’s personal opinion, which I thought was erroneous, and not based on actual Catholic teaching.

Clarkal

 

[clarkal]

dcmac:

Clarkal,
What can I say? Given your intentional treatment of the Holy Name by de-capitalizing the initial letter, one could have reasonably assumed you were not a believer. So, as you are not a believer, I can’t expect you to understand anything about God’s nature - even believers have a hard time with it. If you reject God, you reject knowledge of God. So, what else can I say? Not much…except that I will pray for you specifically…I hope that does not offend you…but as Fr. John Corapi, SOLT is prone to say, ‘at some time you have to offend others by praying for them’.

Your unworthy brother in Christ and by the Grace of God a future priest,
Donncadh

I used to be an orthodox Catholic, so I have a decent grasp of Catholic theology. However, I do not recall reading anything about mentally ill people being more prone to demonic possession than mentally healthy individuals, so I took this view to be understood as being someone’s personal opinion, which I thought was erroneous, and not based on actual Catholic teaching.

Clarkal