Mental Illness: Faulty Neuro-Circuitry or Spiritual/Demonic Component?

[Gratias_Grace]

dcmac:

Gratias Grace,

Perhaps it is the language barrier, but the way your posts read it seems you are getting on White Dove a little too harshly IMHO. White Dove did nothing illegal, or, unethical. Calling her on the mat like this implies that she did and that is unfair.

If we are to take your line of reasoning to its logical conclusion we would have to determine that real cases could not be cited and used for discussion anywhere, be that the class room, the clinic, the literary world, the TV and radio media, etc.

The “rules of engagement” are very clear on this subject for health care professionals and nowhere did White Dove violate any of them, nor was she unethical.

As a PsyD, I appreciate your great desire for patient confidentiality and applaud your effort to remind us of it. However, you really should stop hammering at White Dove for something she did not do.

Your unworthy brother in Christ and by the Grace of God a future priest,
Donnchadh

I am not hammering at Withe Dove. If I’m misunderstood it must be the languagebarrier and different worlds. I live in Europe. We often let our cars stay home and use the bus (spare the environment). As a passenger at bustrips I have heard nurses and other healthcare workers discussing patients without naming them, but the stories they told was so detailed that if i had known their families I would have recogniced the patients.

Because of that this topic, (remember NOT to break the promise about not tell anyone) has come to be important to me. I want people to understand that patients recognised can have their life destroyed.

If you have read my last post to her you will see that I adress the problem to her workplace. So what I am realy sayiing is “White Dove, your boss has not protected you in the way he should and because of that we now have you at Internet”.

I have seen that workplaces are differnt in taking care of "the working pople " (in the mental hospitals). When they are not taken care of, they burn out and they them selves need help.

“to be taken care of” means to have someone to talk to ( a mentor) about the patients that are the most sick. That kind of talking helps the “worker” off with his/ her emotions so that “the worker” will be more aviliable to the other patients who also need her/him.

To be continued:

 

[Gratias_Grace]

contiued:

When I read your post, Donnchadh, I felt that I had done something wrong. I know that americans are good workers and that they perheps demand lesser form their boss/workingplace that we europeen do.

So if I have hurt somebodys feelings I want to say I’m sorry for that. But I hope, that it may inspire american health care workers to think about that an investment in the healtcarewokers are an investment in the health of the patients and in the national ecconomy.

Here in Europe the trend is going the other way. Planning is done for shorttime benefit (ecconomical) and often one fail to see the best for long time. AND, … some, … like me try to work for a better understanding about the link between the wellbeinig of the mentalhospitalworkers and the wellbeing of the ones called “mentally disturbed”.

Well, back to catholism: To take care of each other is what Jesus told us to do.

God bless!

G.G.

 

[Maggie]

Thank you both for clarifying that, I had taken it the wrong way as well. Now that you have made it clear Grace I have to agree… we DO have to take better care of our healthcare workers!! How we can expect and demand of them the kind of care that we do with as little support as they get is attrocious. We are no better here at giving them the on-site care and support they need to mentally and emotionally sustain themselves in the jobs they do. Without giving them those resources they have little left to give when faced with an overbearing or difficult patient, and we all know that the best of us can behave that way when hospitalized.

 

[dalonia]

very enthralling to observe this pseudo-tennis match…
from a Bi-polar one

or… am I possessed??

 

[clarkal]

DC,

I don’t have time to re-read every post, so I will just take your word for it that I goofed. My bad.

Thank you for the three references. I know Groeschel and Corapi very well. The other one, I do not, however.

Clarkal

 

[Socrates]

I’ve suffered from chronic depression for quite a long time. It was only a few years ago that it was diagnosed and treated though, because abnormal circumstances pushed me to where I could no longer really function. I did not want to take medication, but I did, and I found out that the characterization of “drug addicted people” needing pills “to get through the day” is really an unfair one. When my medication took effect there was no feeling that I was “drugged” at all. My mind was clear, I could focus on a task, and I could rationally deal with adversity.

In short it made me feel how a normal human being should feel. I think there’s a misconception among some people that modern anti-depressants are just “happy pills.” That’s not the effect they have at all. There is still the normal range of emotions. With the imbalance corrected though, one can deal with the emotions as they come and not be abnormally overwhelmed by any of them.

I stopped taking the medication when my situation improved but I’ve noticed that the depression is still there. There are times when I feel an overwhelming sadness which has no apparent cause, or the sadness is grossly disproportionate to an apparent cause. I don’t act on that sadness like I once did, but now I recognize it as a symptom and try to overcome it rationally. However, I’m beginning to think that I may still need medication. Feeling ‘normal’ should not take so much conscious effort.

So should I take medication that allows me to be a productive worker, family member, parishoner? Or struggle just to get through the day sometimes by spending all my energy trying to overcome chemically skewed emotions? For those who think depression is just a matter of personal responsibility…what’s the more responsible choice?

Maybe some folks seek a medical solution to problems that are not medical in nature, but chronic depression IS a real illness nonetheless. My symptoms would not have been solved by in the confessional.

Personally, I think anyone who crassly generalizes another’s physiological illness as a character flaw ought to spend a little time discussing THAT in confession themselves. Just my $0.02.

 

[Gratias_Grace]

Maggie:

Now that you have made it clear Grace I have to agree… we DO have to take better care of our healthcare workers!! How we can expect and demand of them the kind of care that we do with as little support as they get is attrocious. We are no better here at giving them the on-site care and support they need to mentally and emotionally sustain themselves in the jobs they do.

Maggie I appriciate your sence of humor! You have suffered a grest deal (your other posts tell) and I think, you have something to teach us, the professionals.

There are profesionals of all kinds, some who think they are superhuman and others who understand that they are only human.

The superhumans are dangerous because they are so afraid to fail. They are the perfect helpers for (like the ignorant secular/ atheist psycologist said) the crazy ones. ( I don’t use that word, myself).

The human helpers know that they themselves one day can need the help of others AND the the LOVE of God!

They are the helpers of human beeings (whole persons that need care, respect, medication… )

My best wishes for you and God Bless!

G.G.

 

[Gratias_Grace]

Socrates:

Personally, I think anyone who crassly generalizes another’s physiological illness as a character flaw ought to spend a little time discussing THAT in confession themselves. Just my $0.02.

:tiphat: SOCRATES, YOU ARE RIGHT! :tiphat:

God bless!

G.G.

 

[Maggie]

Socrates:

I did not want to take medication, but I did, and I found out that the characterization of “drug addicted people” needing pills “to get through the day” is really an unfair one. When my medication took effect there was no feeling that I was “drugged” at all. My mind was clear, I could focus on a task, and I could rationally deal with adversity. In short it made me feel how a normal human being should feel. I think there’s a misconception among some people that modern anti-depressants are just “happy pills.” That’s not the effect they have at all. There is still the normal range of emotions. With the imbalance corrected though, one can deal with the emotions as they come and not be abnormally overwhelmed by any of them.

I stopped taking the medication when my situation improved but I’ve noticed that the depression is still there. There are times when I feel an overwhelming sadness which has no apparent cause, or the sadness is grossly disproportionate to an apparent cause. I don’t act on that sadness like I once did, but now I recognize it as a symptom and try to overcome it rationally. However, I’m beginning to think that I may still need medication. Feeling ‘normal’ should not take so much conscious effort.

So should I take medication that allows me to be a productive worker, family member, parishoner? Or struggle just to get through the day sometimes by spending all my energy trying to overcome chemically skewed emotions? For those who think depression is just a matter of personal responsibility…what’s the more responsible choice?

Maybe some folks seek a medical solution to problems that are not medical in nature, but chronic depression IS a real illness nonetheless. My symptoms would not have been solved by in the confessional

Welcome Socrates. Your experience is so similar to my experience with medication for depression I wish I could show it to my mother to prove that it’s real. Unfortunately this thread has gone round in circles with people defending positions based on attacks by others who’ve backed them into corners and being a incredibly sensitive topic for all of us, those of us suffering from mental illness, those of us with family members living with it, passed away from it, or those who deal with it in their professional lives (with many of us for obvious reasons being affected in more than one area) there are many posts that may be taken out of context, so please don’t be too hard some posters (well, I think we’ve all agreed one was downright ignorant) without reading all of their posts. But thank you so much for sharing and please continue to participate. We all have and it’s been such a relief to be able to do so. The situation you describe is so common to many of us and it is comforting in a way not to be alone with the symptoms and to know that we are doing the best we can and doing it faithfully.

 

[Maresiedotes]

Maybe we should propose a new, permanent forum called Mental Health Issues!!

I was away from this thread for a while and am so touched by the latest posts. Even if we haven’t solved a whole lot, I do believe that awareness has been raised and that compassion and understanding have increased. Praise the Lord for that!!

To Socrates I would say, if you’re not functioning as well as you did on the meds, have you spoken to your doctor? If you’re bipolar, you probably know that getting off meds when you’re feeling bettter may not be the best thing for you AND for the people you love. Make sure you check it out.

Mary

 

[Socrates]

To Socrates I would say, if you’re not functioning as well as you did on the meds, have you spoken to your doctor? If you’re bipolar, you probably know that getting off meds when you’re feeling bettter may not be the best thing for you AND for the people you love. Make sure you check it out.

Thanks, Mary. I’m not bi-polar. At the time I started taking the meds, I was sort of getting hammered from all sides with some pretty rotten situations. Once all that was resolved and I spent a good deal of time sorting things out in individual and group settings, I felt it was worth a try going without the meds.

It’s not as bad now as it was even prior to the bad situations but it’s just really annoying. Feeling bad when intellectually you know there is no real reason for it is a pain in the neck and it’s tiring. I do plan on checking in with my doctor about it though I have not done so yet.

 

[Maresiedotes]

Socrates, I’m glad for you…feeling better is a gift from God!
I get the feeling that you’re a person who is very aware and sensitive…that in itself can be a suffering of sorts…soooo, keep ON getting better! I praise the Lord for who you are…His precious child…and writer of interesting posts on these forums!!!:clapping:

Mary

 

[NM2]

MIDGIE:

I can understand your concern. I’ve never seen so many over-medicated, drug addicted people in my life! It seems to me if they threw their psychotrophic drugs away and went to confession instead, they wouldn’t need pills to get through each day. It appears pyschiatry has taken the place of the confessional in many people’s lives. Instead of realizing the wages of sin is spiritual death to them and repent of their sins, it’s easier to play the blame game or blame chemical imbalance for their problems. Sheesh!!!

God bless you

And if one’s obsessive-compulsive scrupulosity keeps one from believing one has made a good confession (Was there true contrition? Were all sins confessed? Was the penance performed properly?) or, having somehow accepted that the confession was “good enough”, causes one to be sure one has already committed one or more grievous sins before one even makes it home from church - what then? Go to confession again, and again, and again? Just camp out in the confessional, since as soon as you leave you’ll feel you have to go right back in? Will that make the OCD, the scrupulosity, go away? :crying: :banghead:

 

[clarkal]

NM2,

I second your :crying:. I have OCD and was morally scrupulous when I was Catholic. It was hell.

I will say that, unless a miracle occurs, an obsessive-compulsive and scrupulous person *needs *medication. Secondly, he needs to be counseled by a patient and sympathetic priest together with a psychologist that specializes in obsessive-compulsive disorder and has a sufficient amount of experience with religious OCD. I believe that this is his only hope of mental peace, unless, of course, he decides to leave the fold altogether.

Clarkal

 

[Maggie]

clarkal:

NM2,

I second your :crying:. I have OCD and was morally scrupulous when I was Catholic. It was hell.

I will say that, unless a miracle occurs, an obsessive-compulsive and scrupulous person *needs *medication. Secondly, he needs to be counseled by a patient and sympathetic priest together with a psychologist that specializes in obsessive-compulsive disorder and has a sufficient amount of experience with religious OCD. I believe that this is his only hope of mental peace, unless, of course, he decides to leave the fold altogether.

Clarkal

Wow. That has to be incredibly rough. Our priest is very careful to let us know what kinds of things he thinks are appropriate for confession. He is incredibly kind and understands when I am there because I need to be, regardless of how much “sin” I’ve committed by his definition and he is wonderful as a counselor for that reason. I don’t know what I would do if he weren’t willing to set certain things aside though. I guess I am lucky, I didn’t realize that there were priests who would be unkind. I knew some might not understand, and I knew I was lucky to get one who did, but I didn’t realize some would be unsympathetic.

 

[Ian_McClave]

Bishop Sheen told of when he brought the Eucharist to a mental ward and many of the patients became very contemplative and adored, while others stripped, cursed and blasphemed.

All had a mental illness.

We can only know the difference by the fruits, as our Lord said.

See Silent Suffering at tcrnews2.com/Mentalsuffering.html