MERGED: Does Hell exist today?

[scottm]

Well then, sure, I believe in hell. Heaven and hell are consequences of the existence of God, and I believe in God. I adopt the Eastern Orthodox teaching on heaven and hell. Hell is being in the presence of God when you don’t want to be there. Heaven is being in the presence of God when you do want to be there. They’re the same place, but experienced quite differently. The torment of hell is not necessarily eternal. One need only repent to change one’s relationship with God, and hence one’s experience of His presence.

 

[Reuben_J]

The Gospels tell of places where there is ‘gnashing of teeth’ and where there is **‘great thirst’. **So yes, there is hell; and it is not a nice place to be.

 

[Araninski]

I believe hell exists, however I don’t believe hell is eternal. I believe that on the Judgment Day, people in “hell”, in “Hades” or in the “place of the dead”, all those dead who didn’t die in Christ will be thrown to the lake of fire, this fire will eliminate all impurities, those dead which had more bad works will receive more “blows” (more pain) than those with less bad works. And finally the fire will eliminate their souls, I believe this to be the second death.

Luke 12:48
“That servant who knows his master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.”

Jesus the Messiah, promised us that if we believe in Him, we will love Him and obey Him, and through Him we will live again. Those that don’t believe in Him will not live again, because if they don’t die eternally , they would be living again eternally, in pain but forever, and this doesn’t make sense to me.

Matthew 5:25-26

25"Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still with him on the way, or he may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26I tell you the truth, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

Hell is a jail, people suffer there until they get out an thrown to the lake of fire and their souls will be exterminated.

If you own $1, you will pay at the end $1. God is just He will not make you pay an eternity for finite amount of sins.

I think the reason why people think hell or better said the lake of fire is eternal its because the bible says :

Rev. 14:11, “And the smoke of their** torment rises for ever and ever**. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.”

Revelation 20:10 “And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.”

But it also says:

Revelation 11:15 says of Jesus, “…He shall reign for ever and ever”.

15The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said:
"The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ,
and he will reign for ever and ever."

and

I Cor. 15:24,25 says, “Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet.”

So reign for ever and ever, but He must reign until? He is going to hand over the kingdom to His Father, our Father God, when He ends His reign!

The problem clearly is that the translation “for ever and ever” doesn’t mean eternity but “for ages and ages” . Which means a long-finite period of time in Greek.

But hey this is what I believe, I don’t think it is necessary to agree on matters of after-life unless you disagree that the only way we can have eternal life is through Yahshua (Jesus) the Messiah, this is an essential belief.

Yahweh bless!

 

[seeker57]

I do not believe there is a hell of eternal torment. I am more of a Universalist Friend. I believe eventually all creation will be reconciled to the Father…worrying about whether we go to heaven or hell is of no importance to me…this life is what is important…

While this is a statement of the Church of the Brethren…Friends would embrace it as well…

"When it’s all said and done, salvation is a mystery that belongs to God. It is God’s business whether we are saved or not. It is our business to respond, to obey, God, to live as followers. WE trust that God will be just and loving when we’re judged, but when we are asked if we are actually saved, our response can only be, “That’s God’s decision.” With any other answer, we would be assuming too much for God. There is a story of a woman who walked around with a bucket of water and a flaming torch. When asked what she was doing, she replied that she wanted to **put out the flames of hell and burn up the rewards of heaven so that people would worship and serve God not to save themselves, but for the sheer joy of God alone. **Brethren (Friends) want to be drawn into the pilgrimage toward God by the sheer beauty of God, the deep joy in the Spirit, and the clarity of the call of Christ. Promises of salvation are almost irrelevant. "

Well said, Publisher.

I think your comment also expresses the fundamental difference in the beliefs of many Unitarian Universalists and some of the more mainstream Christian beliefs.

I guess you could say we are blessed with the grace of not having to worry about our salvation. Therefore, we are better able to focus our energies on the world around us and making it a better place.

Thanks for the post.

Seeker.

 

[benidict]

You wrote
benidict;7129040:

abrahams “bosom” was the name for paradise in Jewish thought at the time. it was in their mind a literal place. you know very well where the parables are of which i speak. i have had others ask me to provide proof text before too. and when i do so, they are never answered.

My response

• I promise you that I will provide you an answer, if you provide me the verses that you mentioned in your earlier post.

You wrote and you still have not answered my questions on moses. how was he on the mount of transfiguration if nothing survives the death of the body? its a simple question.

**My response ** Well that’s a good question. The last thing it says in the Old Testament is remember the Law of Moses. Behold I send you Elijah the Prophet. Then you turn into the New Testament in the book of Mark chapter 9 verse 1; Moses and Elijah appear to Jesus, Peter, James and John. Well we know about Elijah. He received an angelic escort. He never did die. So we know how he got to Heaven. If you go to the book of Jude, it tells us that Michael the Archangel resurrected Moses. Moses received a special resurrection. Now this is not in the Bible, but it is in Jewish tradition that three days after Moses died, the Lord came and resurrected him. We have reason to believe that that’s true because we do have this passage of Scripture in Jude that Moses received a special resurrection; and they (Moses and Elijah) are not the only exceptions. Incidentally that’s Jude chapter 1 verse 9. You’ve got the example where Enoch walked with God – and he doesn’t appear in the New Testament anywhere but we know that he didn’t die; God took him. There was a special resurrection when Jesus died on the Cross. The Bible says many of those who slept rose and appeared to others in the city and they ascended to Heaven with Jesus; but that was not a universal resurrection. So there are some Christians and some saved people, special people from this life who are in Glory now – but generally speaking, the mass exodus is going to be when the Lord descends from Heaven.

The great judgment day has not occurred yet. That’s very clear. Christ says three times in John chapter 6, ‘the judgment of the last day’ so it’s still future.

**You wrote ** as far as samuel, you can find this in the story, where saul goes to the witch in endor.

**My response ** Who spoke to Saul through the witch–a resurrected prophet of God, or a devil in disguise?
(1Ki 22:22) And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith? And he said, I will go forth, and I will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him, and prevail also: go forth, and do so.
(Rev 16:14) For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles…

What does God say about spirits,
(1Ti 4:1) Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

This spirit of Samuel is the working of Satan.

Interesting to note that the following day Saul’s sons were slain by the Philistines.

**You wrote ** are you trying to see if i know where to find these storys. i certainly can. im a former baptist, and know my bible quite well, thank you. its also not a bad idea to study Jewish thought at this time about the subject of life after death. josephus would be a good start. the passages are in the appendix dealing with a debate he had with a pagan reguarding the state of the dead.

**My response ** Personally, my faith is in what the bible says and not what one person in history believes.

**You wrote ** the certainly believed it was conscious. as far as the rich man and lazarus, this is the only time Jesus ever used a name in his parables. also he started it out, with " there once was a rich man…" not his usual, " the kingdom of heaven is like…" and yes.

**My response **Using KJV. we read of other parables of " a certain man".

What about the parable… (Mat 21:33) Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:

and (Mat 21:28) But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard.

and the parable about the cost of discipleship in:
(Mat 8:19) And a certain scribe came, and said unto him, Master, I will follow thee whithersoever thou goest.

the book of jude says no such thing. the dispute was for the body of moses. this could have occured directly after his death, it is written that he was buried. this is what jude was probably refering to. nowhere is it written or found in Catholic or Jewish tradition that Moses was ressurected. he is is still buried where the good Lord buried him. it is also written in maccabees how sacrifices were made on behalf of the dead. these were Jews doing this. why? because they believed in a state after death that was conscious. also lets look at when peter was released from prison by the angel. when he stood outside the door to where the people were praying, they stated to the person that had answered it, it must be his angel. or spirit. why would they say this? if there was no conscious existence after death. then how do we get the great cloud of witnesses in hebrews. how do we get the souls of the martyrs crying out for vengeance?

 

[Richard_Kastner]

interesting. then who did Jesus go preach to when he died? it is written in peter that he went to the realm of the dead. to preach the good news to those who had died in the friendship of God who were in abrahams bosom, and to announce his victory, to those that had died without the friendship of God. or do you deny that peter stated that Jesus preached to those in “prison” during the time he was in the grave.

I can only guess that you mean 1Peter3
18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

This is saying that by the same Spirit that rose Jesus from the dead He preached the Gospel to the antedeluvians. This was done not at the time of His death but aproximately 2500 yrs. before.

not to mention moses appeared on the mount of transfiguration with Jesus. he had died. how then, if soul sleep were true, could he have been there if there is nothing that survives the death of the body.

There are people in heaven Enoch who walked with God and was taken, Moses whom you mention, Elija taken in a firey chariot, those raised at Jesus assention but those are the only ones the bible mentions. The others are reserved unto the resurrection. Just like the bible says.

want an old testament example? ok, can do. who appeared to king saul, and stated “why do you disturb my rest?” that would be samuel. if there was nothing that survived death. how could samuel have appeared?

Come on Ben, Saul had lost favor with God to the point that He would not communicate with Saul. Witchcraft, divination, necromancing, were all forbidden by God. Do you really think that if Samuel were in heaven that God would use Samuel to cummunicate with Saul through this forbidden means.

also in the law, when it is talking about the prohibitions against mediums and communicating with spirits, there is a prohibition of associating with people who have a “ghost” it is seperate from those that are into contacting evil spirits which would be of the fallen angel variety.

I’m not familiar with this passage could you tell me were it is?

so through out the old and new testament we see that something carries on after death. either in in abrahams bosom, which is paradise. or in tartarus. the temporary abode of the wicked until the time of the end where they will be cast into the lake of fire.where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

You have shown nothing that indicates that this is the case.

not to mention that the verse in revelation you quote is for the ressurected who have been saved. not the lost, who chose hell.

Rev.21
4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

The first line is the only one that talks about the saved. BTW the tears that God wipes away are tears of grief of the saved as they find out loved ones are not with them. The rest of the v. talks about the state of being in the new Jerusalem and these things cannot exist alongside an eternally burning hell with souls writhing in torment.

if you only take part of the council of the bible on this subject, then i could see how you could come to your views. but we must take the whole council of God to get a clearer picture. and that my friend paints a very different picture of the in between state and the final judgement, than you would lead people to believe. sorry richard. again Adventist views have been weighed in the scales, measured by the Word of God, and have been found wanting. i really dont know what more there is to be said. but this is a conversation that is truly interesting. hopefully some more people will chime in. peace

I have provided you with close to twenty scripture pasages the tell you flat out that the hell of the damned occures at the end of the world. Don’t you think it’s time that you gave up and believed the bible Ben?

 

[benidict]

I can only guess that you mean 1Peter3
18For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

This is saying that by the same Spirit that rose Jesus from the dead He preached the Gospel to the antedeluvians. This was done not at the time of His death but aproximately 2500 yrs. before.

There are people in heaven Enoch who walked with God and was taken, Moses whom you mention, Elija taken in a firey chariot, those raised at Jesus assention but those are the only ones the bible mentions. The others are reserved unto the resurrection. Just like the bible says.

Come on Ben, Saul had lost favor with God to the point that He would not communicate with Saul. Witchcraft, divination, necromancing, were all forbidden by God. Do you really think that if Samuel were in heaven that God would use Samuel to cummunicate with Saul through this forbidden means.

I’m not familiar with this passage could you tell me were it is?

You have shown nothing that indicates that this is the case.

Rev.21
4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

The first line is the only one that talks about the saved. BTW the tears that God wipes away are tears of grief of the saved as they find out loved ones are not with them. The rest of the v. talks about the state of being in the new Jerusalem and these things cannot exist alongside an eternally burning hell with souls writhing in torment.

I have provided you with close to twenty scripture pasages the tell you flat out that the hell of the damned occures at the end of the world. Don’t you think it’s time that you gave up and believed the bible Ben?

i do believe in the bible richard. it is you and your system that take anything the bible has to say against what you believe and call it allegorical. isnt it time you believed what Christ the apostles, the early Church fathers, have proclaimed all along? or will you continue to willfully throw out the Gospel, and tradition in which you were raised? i am not the one disbelieving the bible here richard. it is Adventist theology which you follow which disbelieves the bible. you gave 20 passages yes. and i have given you many more on on other threads that we have conversed on, that contratdict your churches interpretation. you continue to pick and choose only which chapters and verses seem to support your system, and do not take the whole bible into account. you only were able to answer one or two at most. i used to be in sales. we call this a bypass strategy. im not going to waste my time quoting scripture and verse with you or yours. it is a waste of my time. i have very little as is. the Gospel i believe has been faithfully handed down for almost 2000 years. can you say the same? no, you cannot. your gospel was founded in the mid 1800s. why should i take the Adventist gospel over the Catholic Gospel? you are asking me to trade in platinum for tin richard. an only an unwise person would do that.

 

[larkin31]

The Gospels tell of places where there is ‘gnashing of teeth’ and where there is **‘great thirst’. **So yes, there is hell; and it is not a nice place to be.

This pretty much describes any NFL city on gameday!

 

[Bob_Crowley]

If so, why? I’m sure that there is a hell, a state of being without God’s love. A state of intense spiritual pain where the weight of sins folds one on to themselves in a crushing vertigo of fire. What are your thoughts?

I’m afraid I tend to go along with the vision of hell given to the children at Fatima, and as described by Lucia in the first mystery. Most of the readers would be aware of it.

It’s a bit more than just intense spiritual pain. I know we’re not supposed to talk about personal “revelations”, but I’ve mentioned before that the night my father died he appeared in my room. At the very end of the exchange which then ensued, he gave this terrifying scream. However he was also definitely looking at something that was coming for him.

I still remember the scream 31 years later, and the way he was standing and the obvious fact he could see something coming at him. I couldn’t see it, just him.

It’s real.

 

[PAboy57]

If hell isn’t real then Christianity and the words of Jesus are a lie. Jesus and the bible wouldn’t lie to us therefore there is a hell and it’s eternal.

Pretending there isn’t a hell is our way of making ourselves feel better about what we are doing in this life. It is how we cope with our sin. We convince ourselves that God wouldn’t do that to his children that he loves so much. Remember, God isn’t doing it to us; we do it to ourselves.

Just my 2 cents. Thanks for the post.

 

[GEddie]

Thank you to all those who replied.

What is your description of hell ?

A total, mind-consuming, dark formlessness. Bodyhood and a clear, knowing mind are gifts of GOD, and we have them as human beings and in Heaven; but not if we are cut off from Him.

What document(s) supports your belief in hell?

The Gospels. Our LORD referred to Hell more than HE did to Heaven. Futhermore, HE is our Saviour, and if there were no Hell, there would be nothing to be saved from.

Are there people in hell today?

thank you

There have to be. Dead human beings go somewhere (the “where” referring to a locale or world of being, not a direction of travel as we understand). Those who do not find the path of life will finalize in Hell.

ICXC NIKA

 

[Samson01]

In 2003, I was going through chemo for stage 3 cancer. In my 13th week, I nearly died. When I say nearly, I mean I was in the abyss that goes to death. I dream of what awaits in that abyss a couple of times a month. There is little doubt to me that hell exists. A priest told me that either the dreams come from hell to have me despair or I am to tell folks that hell is real. So with hope, I posted this to tell you all it is real.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

i do believe in the bible richard. it is you and your system that take anything the bible has to say against what you believe and call it allegorical. isnt it time you believed what Christ the apostles, the early Church fathers, have proclaimed all along?

Ok, let’s review.

2Peter 2
9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

The unjust are not in the hell now. They are dead, in the grave awaiting thier judgment. This is what Peter teaches.

Matt13
40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be **in the end of this world. **41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

At the end of the world the wicked will be cast into the furnace of fire. This is what Jesus taught. Where are the dead now?

Jn.5
28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

They are in the grave awaiting their resurrection. John teaches this. What is the result of sin?

Rom.6
23For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

James1
15Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Jn.3
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

The wages of sin is death, not eternal life in hell. Paul, James, John, teach this. What will happen to the wicked?

Rev21
8But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

They shall die forever. Jesus teaches this. How will this fire be kindled

Matt13
40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be **in the end of this world. **41The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Rev20
9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

At the end of the world God Himself will kindle hellfire. How hot will it be.

2Peter3
10But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Hellfire will be just as big as the earth because it will be the earth on fire. It and all the works on it will be burned up. Peter teaches this. Will the fire go out?

Isaia 47
14Behold, they shall be as stubble; the fire shall burn them; they shall not deliver themselves from the power of the flame: there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.

Revelation 21
1"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth:" 4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Isaiah teaches that indeed the fire eventually goes out “there shall not be a coal to warm at, nor fire to sit before it.” The former things of which hellfire is one will pass away. Jesus says hell will be abolished. Does God love sinners? Jn.3
16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Does it make any sense for God who “is love” to torture His beloved creation for all eternity? It goes against who God is.

What will be left when the fire goes out?

Malachi 4
1For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
3And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts.

They will be ashes and stubble. Which means they are destroyed, forever. Malachi teaches this.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Will the body of the wicked be destroyed?

Matt.5
30And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

Matt.10
28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Ez.18
20The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

Real people enter hell to be destroyed forever. Jesus and Ezekial teach this. Will the devil be in charge of hell?

Ez.28
18Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee.
19All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more.

Satan will be burned up with the rest of the wicked. Ezekial teaches this. What’s God’s purpose for hell?

Matt25
41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Rev.20
15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Psalm37
10For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be.
20But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the LORD shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away.

God’s purpose is that hell will destroy sin and sinners and make the world safe for sinners. Jesus and David taught this. God doesn’t want it this way.

Ez.33
11Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Luke 9
56For the Son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them.

Ez28
21For the LORD shall rise up as in… that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.

God wants everyone to repent and come to Him. If they don’t He has no choice. Jesus and Ezekial teach this. What are God’s post hell plans?

Nahum 1
9What do ye imagine against the LORD? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise
up the second time.

Isaiah 65
17For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Rev21
3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

After hellfire goes out God will create a new earth and restore it to His people where sin will never again rise up to afflict His people. This is what the bible teaches Ben.

 

[larkin31]

If hell isn’t real then Christianity and the words of Jesus are a lie.

The Bible could be part true and part false, also.

 

[NJJMBVB]

The Bible could be part true and part false, also.

True. But Catholics proceed on the assumption that the Bible is completely true, using the Catholic interpretation.
If Catholicism is true, then the Bible is. If the Bible is true, then the words of Jesus are true. Jesus said that there is a hell. Ergo, hell exists.
This line of reasoning only works if you assume that Catholicism and the Bible is true, which Catholics should. There are other proofs of hell, of course…

 

[GEddie]

If hell isn’t real then Christianity and the words of Jesus are a lie.

If that were the case, then the whole thing should be dropped, as there is no way to tell the good from the bad.

Basically, if you believe in our LORD, you got to believe in Hell. HE has left us no wiggle room for picking and choosing.

Be very wary of “selective Scripture interpretation” that leaves room for your favorite sin!!! That will easily lead to your finding out about Hell the hard way!!!

God Bless and ICXC NIKA.

 

[GaryTaylor]

And then theres the message and vision of hell in Fatima, Its there, all real. And nothing to gamble your Soul on thats for sure

 

[larkin31]

… There are other proofs of hell, of course…

“Proofs”? Really? Please share one.

 

[larkin31]

If that were the case, then the whole thing should be dropped, as there is no way to tell the good from the bad…

I do not see why this statement is true. Many times, with many texts, we are forced to determine the kernel from the chaff. I see no reason why we would not be able to do so here, as well. Cultures continually are making discriminating claims about the validity of various ideas and various texts and various sections of texts.