Is Satan in hell… let’s see…(Rev 12:9) And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Sorry, not quite understanding your point here. The Pharisees didn’t recognise Jesus. No, most didn’t but there must have been some in the thousands of those converted by the Apostles (wasn’t Paul a Pharisee? Not sure). The Church says that there is a hell, the bible says that there is a hell, are you saying that just as the Pharisees were blind to the truth with all their advantages, then we might be? Saint Paul says:
My “Truth” is lived out in the daily of my life…my “Truth” is expressed with every kind word I speak…when it would be easier to be angry and rude…“Truth” is expressed each time I open the door for someone…“Truth” is expressed each time I sit down to eat with friends…“Truth” is expressed each day I wake up and go to work…“Truth” is expressed each First Day in Meeting.
richard my friend. i can find chapter and verses, that along with these you have provided, give a whole complete picture, that contradict your views. you know i can do this. however what would be the point? the verse slinging will get us nowhere richard. it comes down to authority. your authority is a prophetess that lived in the 1800s who was very likely decieved. my authority that i am bound under is the Christ, and the Church he established. i accept the whole of the gospel. not some watered down version. i accept the bible and the traditions handed down by the apostles. as well as the succession that has come down from them. in short. i believe all that the Catholic Church teaches and professes. anything else falls short of the mark. anything else is incomplete. i will pray that your eyes are opened and that you will see what you left. Peace
I’m not sure I understand. I don’t believe I suggested such a thing. The reason for living is that my life is a gift and it is hoped that I live it fully and abundantly. Not, by any means sitting around and waiting for salvation but working towards it with joy in our hearts and love for others.
Is this in contradiction to my words or in agreement with them? I couldn’t agree more. The only thing missing perhaps is how we define “good”. I believe we need the help of the Holy Spirit through His bride the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church.
Dear Larkin31,
There are plenty of folks who do the same who are certain that there is no reward in heaven. The ultimate goal of salvation and union with God is not, as I thought that you suggested, a necessary requirement for purpose in life. If I misunderstood your comment in this regard, I apologize. I thought, though, that your implication was pretty clear. But perhaps I was mistaken.
Larkin, I agree with you that salvation is not the purpose of life. We are to be like Jesus. Jesus’ life was not to gain salvation, but to glorify His father. The purpose, of our life is to know God and understand what His character is so that we can love Him and glorify Him. It is to have a meaningful relationship with the Lord.
The blindness in part that happened to Israel was not God’s plan. God wants all people to enter His kingdom. God would not blind any person from knowing Him. Some people of Israel chose to be blind to God’s message.
The bible vs, that I have provided tell us flat out that there is not a hell burniing now. That the wicked are reserved unto the judgement day, so any vs. that you provide that go “along” with these would prove the same thing. If you are trying to say that you can refute what I am saying and what the bible is saying by using the bible alone, I certainly don’t know this. You have made a couple of weak allusions to scriptures, but you never quote the scriptures or even cite them, so I **don’t **know this.
The word of God is my one and only authority when it comes to telling me about Jesus and “verse slinging” as you put it is the only way I can communicate that word to you Ben. If I would not “sling verses” it would be just me talking and who am I. It seems to me that whenever you run out of argument you bring up my church and Ellen White. This I see as diversionary and probably done in despiration.
Then why don’t you show me in the gospel where Jesus or anyone says that hell is burning now. Surely you can make an exception to your aversion to “verse slinging” to actually verify your argument with scripture.
Could you please explain to me how the scriptures I provided are in any way “watered down”?
Except for the ones that I have provided that show that hellfire is reserved for the judgement day, Right?
If the CC is teaching anything other than what the bible teaches, it is the CC that falls short of the mark.and the traditions handed down by the apostles. as well as the succession that has come down from them. in short. i believe all that the Catholic Church teaches and professes. anything else falls short of the mark. anything else is incomplete. i will pray that your eyes are opened and that you will see what you left. Peace
Larkin
I am fully convinced that hell is a fictional mythical and metaphorical projection of our fears of evil and need for a larger sense of final justice for human behavior. We make these projections in nearly all forms of art, and have done so for hundreds of years. These artist metaphors are clearly fictional, and without clear empirical evidence to the contrary (which has never been produced), I see no reason to put religious conceptions of hell into a separate “true” category. In other words, if 99 depictions of hell are clearly fictional, why should the 100th be “true”? You need a pretty darn convincing set of evidence to determine it to be anything other than simply another mythical fictional projection.
:grouphug: hi larkin! how ya been. i am fully convinced also. i am fully convinced that human beings are by nature, bent toward spiritual things. even atheist, though they would deny it. they are more versed in religious matters than most church goin folks. why? if all of these things are fictional, and dont really exist, then why do the atheist and agnostics even care? if there is nothing more than this life, and the spiritual life is nothing but a fair tale, then why are so many non believers so obsessed with these things? they wouldnt go bonkers over alice in wonderland, or moby dick. but they sure go bonkers over a book that they consider fictional, and belief systems they consider irrelevant and outdated. im not placing you in the same class as these larkin, feel free to shed some light on my questions if you would like. id be interested in your answers. Peace
I for one am not obsessed.:grouphug: hi larkin! how ya been. i am fully convinced also. i am fully convinced that human beings are by nature, bent toward spiritual things. even atheist, though they would deny it. they are more versed in religious matters than most church goin folks. why? if all of these things are fictional, and dont really exist, then why do the atheist and agnostics even care? if there is nothing more than this life, and the spiritual life is nothing but a fair tale, then why are so many non believers so obsessed with these things? they wouldnt go bonkers over alice in wonderland, or moby dick. but they sure go bonkers over a book that they consider fictional, and belief systems they consider irrelevant and outdated. im not placing you in the same class as these larkin, feel free to shed some light on my questions if you would like. id be interested in your answers. Peace
oh, and I totally agree that human beings have a strong tendency toward the religio-mythical. This is common knowledge of cultural history.:grouphug: hi larkin! how ya been. i am fully convinced also. i am fully convinced that human beings are by nature, bent toward spiritual things. even atheist, though they would deny it. they are more versed in religious matters than most church goin folks. why? if all of these things are fictional, and dont really exist, then why do the atheist and agnostics even care? if there is nothing more than this life, and the spiritual life is nothing but a fair tale, then why are so many non believers so obsessed with these things? they wouldnt go bonkers over alice in wonderland, or moby dick. but they sure go bonkers over a book that they consider fictional, and belief systems they consider irrelevant and outdated. im not placing you in the same class as these larkin, feel free to shed some light on my questions if you would like. id be interested in your answers. Peace
This is a very private question. I would understand if you did not want to reply. You state in your bio. that you are a former Protestant. Could I ask you why the separation ?I for one am not obsessed.
And plenty of persons ARE obsessed over fictional mythical belief systems (see Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, Star Trek for examples).
What typically energizes atheists into more political activity is the nexus of religion and government. This, you will admit, makes religious mythology more pertinent and more adversarial for the non-believers than, say, the Prime Directive of Star Trek. If courthouses were interested in posting the Prime Directive on their walls, then perhaps atheists might start fighting that, too.
PM me. We have already been asked to stay on the topic, and I have been suspended recently. So I am trying to be good.