MERGED: Does Hell exist today?

[BTTG]

PM me. We have already been asked to stay on the topic, and I have been suspended recently. So I am trying to be good.

Sorry, didn’t mean to get you in trouble. Fully understand. If you want you can reply in private. However, I respect your decision.

I too have had a warning.

 

[StevieD]

I am fully convinced that hell is a fictional mythical and metaphorical projection of our fears of evil and need for a larger sense of final justice for human behavior. We make these projections in nearly all forms of art, and have done so for hundreds of years. These artist metaphors are clearly fictional, and without clear empirical evidence to the contrary (which has never been produced), I see no reason to put religious conceptions of hell into a separate “true” category. In other words, if 99 depictions of hell are clearly fictional, why should the 100th be “true”? You need a pretty darn convincing set of evidence to determine it to be anything other than simply another mythical fictional projection.

You are not alone in your convictions by any means, even among Christians. So there seems to exist a need to deny the reality of hell which is just as strong or maybe stronger than the need to ‘create’ it. I would urge you to watch/listen to Paul Thigpen on EWTN’s Coming Home series. He was a convinced atheist who studied the ‘Occult’ in a purely academic way but witnessed things that convinced him that there was something like hell, he just wasn’t convinced there was a heaven initially!

 

[larkin31]

You are not alone in your convictions by any means, even among Christians. So there seems to exist a need to deny the reality of hell which is just as strong or maybe stronger than the need to ‘create’ it. I would urge you to watch/listen to Paul Thigpen on EWTN’s Coming Home series. He was a convinced atheist who studied the ‘Occult’ in a purely academic way but witnessed things that convinced him that there was something like hell, he just wasn’t convinced there was a heaven initially!

i was once a convinced born again Christian

I don’t mind at all that people believe in Hell. I just think that it is a false belief, and the degree to which one lives according to that belief, one leads a false life. However, one can still be a very good person even while living an ignorant life. I have my own forms of ignorance, certainly. And, I am not the best person I know; not even the best person in my household.

 

[BTTG]

You are not alone in your convictions by any means, even among Christians. So there seems to exist a need to deny the reality of hell which is just as strong or maybe stronger than the need to ‘create’ it. I would urge you to watch/listen to Paul Thigpen on EWTN’s Coming Home series. He was a convinced atheist who studied the ‘Occult’ in a purely academic way but witnessed things that convinced him that there was something like hell, he just wasn’t convinced there was a heaven initially!

When does judgement occur?

thank you

 

[GaryTaylor]

i was once a convinced born again Christian

I don’t mind at all that people believe in Hell. I just think that it is a false belief, and the degree to which one lives according to that belief, one leads a false life. However, one can still be a very good person even while living an ignorant life. I have my own forms of ignorance, certainly. And, I am not the best person I know; not even the best person in my household.

From your own words…

You sure the way you live isn’t just yourself giving yourself permission to continue down the path your on? And what if your wrong? Which 1-billion Catholics seem to think you are. And that statistic doesn’t account for Christology itself.

Just sayin:shrug:

 

[larkin31]

From your own words…

You sure the way you live isn’t just yourself giving yourself permission to continue down the path your on? And what if your wrong? Which 1-billion Catholics seem to think you are. And that statistic doesn’t account for Christology itself.

Just sayin:shrug:

I don’t believe in hell. The idea of permanent non-existence is frightening enough.

Not sure why you are trying to convince me otherwise. I am not proselytizing here. I am only answering questions asked of me.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

i was once a convinced born again Christian

I don’t mind at all that people believe in Hell. I just think that it is a false belief, and the degree to which one lives according to that belief, one leads a false life. However, one can still be a very good person even while living an ignorant life. I have my own forms of ignorance, certainly. And, I am not the best person I know; not even the best person in my household.

You say “i was once a convinced born again Christian”. This would seem to imply that you are not convinced or born again now and would beg the question. What happened to make you unconvinced or unborn again?

You also say. “I don’t mind at all that people believe in Hell. I just think that it is a false belief, and the degree to which one lives according to that belief, one leads a false life.”

I’m not quite sure what it is you are saying here. Are you saying that a person who is mistaken in a belief, no matter what that belief is, is leading a false life? And one can only wonder how one can believe whether something exists or not in degrees. I mean isn’t it an either or situation? Also, what if a person believes that “hell” does not exist now, but will exist at the final judgement, just like the bible says. Does this conform to your idea of “hell” or do you think the bible is wrong and these people are also leading a “false life”?

 

[StevieD]

i was once a convinced born again Christian

I don’t mind at all that people believe in Hell. I just think that it is a false belief, and the degree to which one lives according to that belief, one leads a false life. However, one can still be a very good person even while living an ignorant life. I have my own forms of ignorance, certainly. And, I am not the best person I know; not even the best person in my household.

Hi, you seem to have missed my point, this wasn’t about how good you or atheists/agnostics are in general, I accept that most people try to lead reasonably good lives by their own lights. I believe that belief in hell doesn’t make people good, indeed some occultists and Satanists believe in it and make it their destination of choice!
My point was that contrary to what you said about there existing a need by people to invent hell, that there seems to exist a need, just as strong, to deny its existence even among Christians.

 

[StevieD]

When does judgement occur?

thank you

The Church teaches that an individual judgement occurs immediately after death and that a general judgement will occur at the end of the world. I accept that. If you want amplification, you will find it on this site I am sure.

 

[BTTG]

The Church teaches that an individual judgement occurs immediately after death and that a general judgement will occur at the end of the world. I accept that. If you want amplification, you will find it on this site I am sure.

What does the bible say about the judgement. Can you show me in scripture where it mentions that judgement occurs immediately after death? And where in the bible does it talk about the general judgement?

Also do you put the authority of the church above the word of God?

written with love

 

[BTTG]

I don’t believe in hell. The idea of permanent non-existence is frightening enough.

Not sure why you are trying to convince me otherwise. I am not proselytizing here. I am only answering questions asked of me.

I will pray for you. I can not imagine how you feel when you state that the idea of permanent non-existence is frightening enough. With do respect, hell should be the least of your concerns.

You mentioned in an earlier post that some of the bible could be true. Can I ask you to provide in a nut shell what parts of the bible you do believe in?

To the moderator of this thread; The question I asked to this person I know is off topic, however, this person is a child of God, a God that wants all to have eternal life.

 

[StevieD]

What does the bible say about the judgement. Can you show me in scripture where it mentions that judgement occurs immediately after death? And where in the bible does it talk about the general judgement?

Also do you put the authority of the church above the word of God?

Jesus said nothing about the authority of the (then unwritten) NT (and given to you by the Catholic Church), but he said quite a lot about the authority of His Church, however:

General Judgement (one of numerous quotes) :

“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, escorted by all the angels of heaven, He will sit upon His royal throne and all the nations will be assembled before Him. Then He will separate them into two groups, as a shepherd separated sheep from goats” (Mt 25:31-32).

Personal Judgement:
Hebrews 9:27 “after death comes judgement…” This cannot relate to the General Judgement as some will still be living.
The story of Lazarus would have been pointless if there were no personal judgement as well as the general judgement.

I was aware that you merely had a point to make when you posed your ‘question’. If you **really **want to know the scriptural support for the Church’s teachings, it is freely available on this site, find it and stop just trying to preach your mistaken views.

 

[larkin31]

I will pray for you. I can not imagine how you feel when you state that the idea of permanent non-existence is frightening enough. With do respect, hell should be the least of your concerns.

The idea of a “hell” is truly one of the least of my concerns. It’s a curious intellectual topic for me, though, so I answered the question I was asked.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Jesus said nothing about the authority of the (then unwritten) NT (and given to you by the Catholic Church), but he said quite a lot about the authority of His Church, however:

General Judgement (one of numerous quotes) :

“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, escorted by all the angels of heaven, He will sit upon His royal throne and all the nations will be assembled before Him. Then He will separate them into two groups, as a shepherd separated sheep from goats” (Mt 25:31-32

Personal Judgement:

Hebrews 9:27 “after death comes judgement…” This cannot relate to the General Judgement as some will still be living.
The story of Lazarus would have been pointless if there were no personal judgement as well as the general judgement.

What you have here is a misquote of Heb.9: 27 Here is Heb9:27 from the Douay Rheims bible. [27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this the judgment:

You will notice the article that I have highlighted. This says that after death comes THE judgement not “after death comes judgement.” You said “This cannot relate to the General Judgement as some will still be living.” The judgement happens after the end of the world.

2 Peter 2:9
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

 

[BTTG]

Jesus said nothing about the authority of the (then unwritten) NT (and given to you by the Catholic Church), but he said quite a lot about the authority of His Church, however:

General Judgement (one of numerous quotes) :

“When the Son of Man comes in His glory, escorted by all the angels of heaven, He will sit upon His royal throne and all the nations will be assembled before Him. Then He will separate them into two groups, as a shepherd separated sheep from goats” (Mt 25:31-32).

Personal Judgement:
Hebrews 9:27 “after death comes judgement…” This cannot relate to the General Judgement as some will still be living.
The story of Lazarus would have been pointless if there were no personal judgement as well as the general judgement.

I was aware that you merely had a point to make when you posed your ‘question’. If you **really **want to know the scriptural support for the Church’s teachings, it is freely available on this site, find it and stop just trying to preach your mistaken views.

Hey, we are all God’s children searching for the truth, getting to know God better. No need to get upset.

You may not want to answer my questions after your last statement. That’s ok, I 'll respect your decision.

What do you mean my “personal” and “general” judgement?

The wicked/not saved people of all history will be thrown into the lake of fire at the second coming of Jesus. As Jesus tells us in His parable:

(Mat 13:37) He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; (Mat 13:38) The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; (Mat 13:39) The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
(Mat 13:40) As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

One must hear the word of God while on this earth, when we die there is no second chance…(Luk 16:31) And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

Parables cannot be taken literally. You mentioned Lazarus. This is a parable. “By representing the beggar as being in heaven and the rich man as lost, Jesus taught His hearers that, contrary to the prevailing view, wealth was not necessarily an indicator of divine favor, just as poverty was not a sign of God’s judgement upon a person.”

With the following scriptures, how can a person be alive in hell, or heaven ?

What say the Scriptures concerning these things? David declares that man is not conscious in death. “His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.” Psalm 146:4. Solomon bears the same testimony: “The living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything.” “Their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in anything that is done under the sun.” “There is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.” Ecclesiastes 9:5, 6, 10.

 

[BTTG]

What you have here is a misquote of Heb.9: 27 Here is Heb9:27 from the Douay Rheims bible. [27] And as it is appointed unto men once to die, and after this the judgment:

You will notice the article that I have highlighted. This says that after death comes THE judgement not “after death comes judgement.” You said “This cannot relate to the General Judgement as some will still be living.” The judgement happens after the end of the world.

2 Peter 2:9
The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:

Richard, have I drawn the correct conclusion that you do not believe there is a hell today? And that hell is the lake of fire at the end of the world (age)?

I know this topic is on hell, but do you believe when people die that they go to heaven?

I am thinking of starting a new thread on "Died and gone to heaven?? "

written with love

 

[Richard_Kastner]

Richard, have I drawn the correct conclusion that you do not believe there is a hell today? And that hell is the lake of fire at the end of the world (age)?

I know this topic is on hell, but do you believe when people die that they go to heaven?

When people die they await the resurrection in the grave. I have shown my views as expressed in the bible in posts #116 & #117

I am thinking of starting a new thread on "Died and gone to heaven?? "

written with love

This might be a good idea. There seems to be much misunderstanding of what happens after we die.

 

[benidict]

When people die they await the resurrection in the grave. I have shown my views as expressed in the bible in posts #116 & #117

This might be a good idea. There seems to be much misunderstanding of what happens after we die.

i couldnt agree more with you richard. peace

 

[Scaun]

No. Hell is a thing yet to come in the future, as far as I know.

 

[BTTG]

When people die they await the resurrection in the grave. I have shown my views as expressed in the bible in posts #116 & #117

This might be a good idea. There seems to be much misunderstanding of what happens after we die.

Thanks Richard. I agree with you about hell.