*It really doesn’t matter what I think. The bible says they are both in the grave awaiting the resurrection.
The above underlined is a joke right, I did a quick search of over 20 translations and *NOBODY *puts the comma after ‘today’. There are no serious Greek scholars who would come anywhere close to putting the comma after ‘today’. Its just an amateurish device to get away from the plain reading of the text. Do you have an answer to the article from campeador’s post #272? Do you have a quick paragraph of Greek syntax you can give us or direct us to a paper in a scholarly Journal to support your conclusion that supposedly all those translators got wrong?
im still waiting for information on just one theologian, scholar , professor, preacher, anyone, before the 1800s who taught the doctrine of soul sleep. so hopefully you can get an answer to your question. its just amazing my brother, that every doctor of the Church, every Saint, every Christian that every lived after the new testament was put together, could have gotten this sooo wrong! its pretty bad, that some of these movements actually feel the need to change the punctuation of the bible to force it to fit into their views. and imntbho, its indefensible. Peace to you and yours.
Thanks John. I’ve been waiting patiently for a response. Here it is again in case anyone missed it:
Thank you for your patience camp. I think the only evidence I need is in the bible Luke 23
OR,
Jesus could have entrusted him to Moses and Elijah, till his return to heaven…his Ascension.
Well my interpretation could be wrong, if I gave you an interpretation. However I gave you no interpretation. I merely pointed out what scripture clearly says. And as you say since scripture is never contradictory and Jesus of coarse is not wrong or lying, the comma in Luke 23:43 that uninspired translators placed before the word today should have been placed after.
How do you know that those who translated your translation are uninspired too? i do not know if you are aware, there is now a group that is charged with interpreting the manuscripts…both Catholics and Protestants are in it, I believe.
its interesting. how did all these scholars get it wrong through the centuries, and it took a woman with only a 3rd grade education, no knowledge of hebrew or greek, to be able to tell us that they misplaced the comma, completely changing what Christ said. she couldnt even go into the original languages to check if she was giving correct information.
think ill stick with the vatican scholars, and the translations they provide. theirs are based on solid scholarship. Peace I fully agree…besides the scholars…the understanding of the verse through the centuries has been consistent…not a translation that came sometime in the last 200 years or so…its interesting. how did all these scholars get it wrong through the centuries, and it took a woman with only a 3rd grade education, no knowledge of hebrew or greek, to be able to tell us that they misplaced the comma, completely changing what Christ said. she couldnt even go into the original languages to check if she was giving correct information.
i think the Adventist use the king james version for the most part. but how after all these centuries, with many many scholars, could someone with a third grade education, and no knowledge of greek or hebrew, come in and say that the previous scholars were wrong, and that the punctuation is incorrect?
she couldnt even go into the original languages to double check herself. Peace lol! you read this before i deleted it. the second one is the one you were meant to see. i thought my first one sounded a bit uncharitable, so i rewrote it. but i see you got the gist of what i was trying to get across. PeaceI fully agree…besides the scholars…the understanding of the verse through the centuries has been consistent…not a translation that came sometime in the last 200 years or so…
Moreover, our brethen seems to disappear or ignore something that conflicts with what he believes…I understand that this is hard to acknowledge…and it takes alot of courage and fortitude to face up to it.
Peace and Blessings…
I fully agree…besides the scholars…the understanding of the verse through the centuries has been consistent…not a translation that came sometime in the last 200 years or so…:doh2:i think the Adventist use the king james version for the most part. but how after all these centuries, with many many scholars, could someone with a third grade education, and no knowledge of greek or hebrew, come in and say that the previous scholars were wrong, and that the punctuation is incorrect?
it is very hard. i know. i come from premillenialist dispansationalist point of view. (former baptist.) they have quite a scheme also, for coming to their conclusions, and views. the Catholic Church freed me from many many false assumptions. the Catholic Church has something no one else has. the authority of Jesus Christ himself. i for one can trust what i am told. and our douay rheims transltion if im not mistaken, made use of manuscripts not even available anymore. very close to the time of the actual events. PeaceI fully agree…besides the scholars…the understanding of the verse through the centuries has been consistent…not a translation that came sometime in the last 200 years or so…:doh2:
Moreover, our brethen seems to disappear or ignore something that conflicts with what he believes…I understand that this is hard to acknowledge…and it takes alot of courage and fortitude to face up to it.
Peace and Blessings…
Amen, Benedict…yes, we can be sure that we are being taught to us comes from the Jesus…not matter how much other denominations rant against the CC. When I discovered The Journey Home on EWTN, I listened to past stories of conversion, and I know how hard it is, to come to that decision…and I am glad you are home. I just hope our brethen here musters the courage to find the light.it is very hard. i know. i come from premillenialist dispansationalist point of view. (former baptist.) they have quite a scheme also, for coming to their conclusions, and views. the Catholic Church freed me from many many false assumptions. the Catholic Church has something no one else has. the authority of Jesus Christ himself. i for one can trust what i am told. and our douay rheims transltion if im not mistaken, made use of manuscripts not even available anymore. very close to the time of the actual events. Peace
The bible says that 16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2Tim.3. It doesn’t say anything about the interpreters being inspired. We know they aren’t because there are other mistakes in punctuation in the bible.
Dear Richard…
Ok, pablope let’s go through this again. Luke 23:43 says “And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise.” The traditional interpretation of this v. is that Jesus would be in heaven with the thief ON THAT VERY DAY. Ok, Jump ahead to a little after the resurrection THREE DAYS LATER Jn. 20: 17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.