MERGED: Immaculate Conception Holy Day in the USA and Obligation

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Saturday evening vigil does not fulfill holy day obligation, saturday vigil will be the liturgy for Sunday not for the Holy day.
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=722453

Please read through this link, it is the other thread which this one will be combined with as soon as a moderatror sees it.

And yes, the Saturday Vigil Mass can meet the holy day obligation, but in that case there is still the obligation for Sunday which needs to be met. Two obligations, two Masses.
 
Saturday evening vigil does not fulfill holy day obligation, saturday vigil will be the liturgy for Sunday not for the Holy day.
This is incorrect. Any Mass on Friday evening and all day Saturday can be applied to one’s canonical obligation to attend Mass for the Holy Day Obligation.

However, one cannot go to one Saturday evening Mass in an attempt to fulfill both obligations. If someone wants Saturday night to count for Immaculate Conception, they would have to go again on Sunday (or even again on Saturday evening) in order to fulfill their Sunday obligation. Two obligations means two Masses.

I would also encourage the OP to look at the two articles from Ed Peters at the CanonLawBlog. He spells it all out quite thoroughly.
 
My Parish will have Mass Saturday morning. I’m sure most here won’t agree, but it’s going to suck to have to get up and around Saturday morning as it’s my only day of the week to lounge in bed most of the morning watching TV, playing games, etc.
 
My Parish is having Mass Saturday morning, really wished they were having a Vigil Mass Friday evening as Saturday is my only day of the week to lounge in bed all morning and do nothing, but oh well.
 
Saturday evening vigil does not fulfill holy day obligation, saturday vigil will be the liturgy for Sunday not for the Holy day.
The particular liturgy celebrated does not impact the fufillment of the Mass obligation.

An EF Mass, an Eastern/Oriental Catholic Mass, a wedding or funeral Mass, all with different readings still fulfil ones obligation for the Sunday or Holy Day.

Again, the particular propers/readings have no impact on the obligation being fulfilled.

God Bless
 
My Parish is having Mass Saturday morning, really wished they were having a Vigil Mass Friday evening as Saturday is my only day of the week to lounge in bed all morning and do nothing, but oh well.
No Vigil?!?! That’s odd. Is Friday your priest’s day off?

We always have a 7:30 PM Vigil Mass for Holy Days. It’s much better than some parishes that offer 5 or 5:30. No way for me to get home that early without taking a half-day off.

God Bless
 
No Vigil?!?! That’s odd. Is Friday your priest’s day off?

We always have a 7:30 PM Vigil Mass for Holy Days. It’s much better than some parishes that offer 5 or 5:30. No way for me to get home that early without taking a half-day off.

God Bless
Perhaps garn’s priest has more than one parish. I know many priests who have 2 or 3 or even 4 parishes. They cannot offer a Vigil Mass at all of them.
 
Perhaps garn’s priest has more than one parish. I know many priests who have 2 or 3 or even 4 parishes. They cannot offer a Vigil Mass at all of them.
True, but you could always go to that other parish. Unless it’s a really rural area where the parishes are far apart, a priest usually cover parishes that are close to each other.

God Bless
 
Perhaps garn’s priest has more than one parish. I know many priests who have 2 or 3 or even 4 parishes. They cannot offer a Vigil Mass at all of them.
No, just one Parish. In my year back in the church, all of the Holy Day Masses have been in the evening of the actual Holy Day, with no Vigil masses. If this Holy Day was on any other day of the week, I suspect that Mass would be in the evening as well. Since it’s falling on Saturday, morning is the only time it works, which i’m fine with.
 
No, just one Parish. In my year back in the church, all of the Holy Day Masses have been in the evening of the actual Holy Day, with no Vigil masses. If this Holy Day was on any other day of the week, I suspect that Mass would be in the evening as well. Since it’s falling on Saturday, morning is the only time it works, which i’m fine with.
That’s odd. I’ve never heard of a Latin parish only having one Mass on a Holy day. Is this true of Sunday as well?

Eastern/Oriental parishes are different. They often only have one Sunday Divine Liturgy, but they tend to be looooong (2-3 hours). You can’t really ask a priest to say three 3 hour services in one day.

God Bless
 
That’s odd. I’ve never heard of a Latin parish only having one Mass on a Holy day. Is this true of Sunday as well?
My parish is only having one Liturgy for the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception of Mary on Saturday morning. Other than for Christmas and Easter my parish doesn’t do anticipated Masses/Vigils for Holy Days of Obligation. (We will have the usual anticipated Mass for Sunday for those who wish to fulfill their Holy Day obligation using the Second Sunday of Advent liturgy.)

I guess that’s the price of having priests who hold multiple diocesan jobs. People who want to go to anticipated Masses for Holy Days of Obligation need to find a nearby parish.
 
That’s odd. I’ve never heard of a Latin parish only having one Mass on a Holy day. Is this true of Sunday as well?

Eastern/Oriental parishes are different. They often only have one Sunday Divine Liturgy, but they tend to be looooong (2-3 hours). You can’t really ask a priest to say three 3 hour services in one day.

God Bless
There was a parish in our diocese that only had one Sunday Mass. No Saturday evening Mass.

The parish didn’t have their own priest and the parish is pretty small. 🤷

The nearest parish is about an hour away.

Recently they had a pastor assigned and from their website, it looks like they will have two Masses for the Holy Day.
 
As far as your diversions, IC next year is transferred to Monday and not held in obligation. So the Sunday Mass next year on this weekend will be Sunday Mass, that’s it. IC will be celebrated on Monday here in the US.

You already answered your Christmas on Sunday issue, the Solemnity of Christmas supersedes the normal Sunday obligation so there is only the obligation for Christmas Mass.

I don’t see that ending well for anyone who actually looks at these threads for guidance, and many do. So let’s not muddy the waters any more than they already are, ok? 👍
It is an open question in canon law and I have every right to help clear up the waters. I have been advised by a canon lawyer that the mass obligation from two holydays can be satisfied with attendance at the Saturday evening mass,

Second, you have to think about WHY the US bishops have decided IC 2013 is not obligatory. It is similar to the resaon that other holydays are not obligatory when they fall on Saturday or Monday. For these feasts the bishops have decided that one mass is enough for the observance the two holydays of obligation because they fall on two consecutive days. Now the bishops do not think that going to Mass on Sunday is enough to celebrate the Immaculate Conception or Christmas when this falls on Saturday. However enough bishops consider going to mass on the Saturday evening sufficient for them not to issue a general clarification. My advice therefore is to follow what your local bishop thinks about the issue.

Clearly though, the bishops do agree that depending on the case, one mass is enough for both the holyday and Sunday when they fall on consecutive days and next year they have decided that one mass is enough for both Sunday and the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception, they could have decided to transfer the obligation to observe, but they decided one mass was enough for two feasts as they are on consecutive days, even though it involves the patronal feast day. It is a clear principle in canon law to use the mind of the legislator and context to solve simlar doubts, which leads some canon lawyers to hold that Saturday evening Mass is enough for the obligation of both Saturday and Sunday this weekend.
 
It is an open question in canon law and I have every right to help clear up the waters. I have been advised by a canon lawyer that the mass obligation from two holydays can be satisfied with attendance at the Saturday evening mass,

Second, you have to think about WHY the US bishops have decided IC 2013 is not obligatory. It is similar to the resaon that other holydays are not obligatory when they fall on Saturday or Monday. For these feasts the bishops have decided that one mass is enough for the observance the two holydays of obligation because they fall on two consecutive days. Now the bishops do not think that going to Mass on Sunday is enough to celebrate the Immaculate Conception or Christmas when this falls on Saturday. However enough bishops consider going to mass on the Saturday evening sufficient for them not to issue a general clarification. My advice therefore is to follow what your local bishop thinks about the issue.

Clearly though, the bishops do agree that depending on the case, one mass is enough for both the holyday and Sunday when they fall on consecutive days and next year they have decided that one mass is enough for both Sunday and the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception, they could have decided to transfer the obligation to observe, but they decided one mass was enough for two feasts as they are on consecutive days, even though it involves the patronal feast day. It is a clear principle in canon law to use the mind of the legislator and context to solve simlar doubts, which leads some canon lawyers to hold that Saturday evening Mass is enough for the obligation of both Saturday and Sunday this weekend.
As far as most are concerned it is not an open case with CL, and no you are not clearing up anything. You are being obstinate. I private messaged you because this would end in an argument that cannot be solved on the open forum. You are proving my thoughts to be correct.

Please produce one statement, official statement, from any US bishop stating what you claim is true.

Furthermore, you cannot refute my private message just by saying it is wrong, my answer is, no you’re wrong, wait no you’re wrong, no you’re wrong. See, that doesn’t work very well. What a person must do is go to the experts who have stated what we have posted here and most of them seem to agree with what has been posted here; 2 obligations means 2 Masses, and yet you choose to argue, for what ever reason, to the contrary.

What you fail to accept is a true factor in the IC 2013 issue, and the Christmas Day/Sunday Mass issue; in either case the solemnity which holds highest rank, in the two cases you set your hopes on, it goes like this; 2013 IC = transferred to Monday the 9th of December so there is no obligation for Mass on the 9th or the 8th for the IC solemnity. The Sunday feast day trumps because of liturgical rank the IC feast day.

The Christmas on Sunday issue is just as simple. The Solemnity of Christmas trumps the Sunday obligation because it ranks as a higher Solemnity; therefore, each of these Sundays you use to make your arguments only hold one obligation according to the Church. Now if you choose to go to two Masses those days, you can; however they will both be of their respective Solemnities; 2nd Sunday of Advent and Christmas respectfully.

After this post I will not debate you directly, although I will refute improper posts by you or any one else.
 
This is incorrect. Any Mass on Friday evening and all day Saturday can be applied to one’s canonical obligation to attend Mass for the Holy Day Obligation.

However, one cannot go to one Saturday evening Mass in an attempt to fulfill both obligations. If someone wants Saturday night to count for Immaculate Conception, they would have to go again on Sunday (or even again on Saturday evening) in order to fulfill their Sunday obligation. Two obligations means two Masses.

I would also encourage the OP to look at the two articles from Ed Peters at the CanonLawBlog. He spells it all out quite thoroughly.
The particular liturgy celebrated does not impact the fufillment of the Mass obligation.

An EF Mass, an Eastern/Oriental Catholic Mass, a wedding or funeral Mass, all with different readings still fulfil ones obligation for the Sunday or Holy Day.

Again, the particular propers/readings have no impact on the obligation being fulfilled.

God Bless
Really, because I spoke with a very knowledgeable priest this morning before I posted this and his response was what I posted. I’ll take his word for it.
 
Really, because I spoke with a very knowledgeable priest this morning before I posted this and his response was what I posted. I’ll take his word for it.
I’ve heard the same thing. It’s incorrect.

Saturday evening counts for the IC as long as you’re not trying to “double dip”.

God Bless
 
Really, because I spoke with a very knowledgeable priest this morning before I posted this and his response was what I posted. I’ll take his word for it.
I would certainly encourage you to take his word for it over mine. However, I’m not just making stuff up. 😛 I am just taking my lead from Canon Law:

Can. 1248 §1. A person who assists at a Mass celebrated anywhere in a Catholic rite either on the feast day itself or in the evening of the preceding day satisfies the obligation of participating in the Mass.

Note, there is no specific mention of the Mass needing to be one that is liturgically designated for that feast day (with all the readings and such).

This is also the position taken by Canon lawyer Ed Peters (whose articles have been linked to earlier in the thread). He teaches at a seminary and has been appointed to some sort of advisory position with the Vatican. So I’m in good company. 🙂

I am no Canon lawyer myself, so perhaps there is reasonable room for differing opinions on the interpretation of this canon. If that’s the interpretation your priest is going with, I would go with what he says. That is also good company. 🙂
 
Really, because I spoke with a very knowledgeable priest this morning before I posted this and his response was what I posted. I’ll take his word for it.
Forward this to the priest
canonlaw.info/2008/11/tim…ng-sunday.html

Perhaps you misunderstood him, perhaps his area of speciality is not in the realm of Canon Law, or it could be that your bishop has given special instructions for the obligation, as is his right.
 
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