MERGED: Must go on a retreat to be confirmed?

[benedictgal]

The OP said nothing of the sort…you are adding to the story. Even if it would be the case, the requirement of obidience is still there.

Had you read my post, you would have noted the disclaimer:

Even though the OP didn’t state it

What I am saying is that perhaps there is an underlying problem here, a serious one. We cannot automatically assume that the OP does not want to go to the retreat simply because he does not want to go.

 

[Lapey]

Had you read my post, you would have noted the disclaimer:

What I am saying is that perhaps there is an underlying problem here, a serious one. We cannot automatically assume that the OP does not want to go to the retreat simply because he does not want to go.

Point is, though, I agree with some other issue being possible; but the OP is still required to go…simple to me. Do it and get over it, or choose not to confirm at this time.

I know I sound tough on this kid, but it is not negotiable. If the bishop requires this, do it and be finished with it.

 

[benedictgal]

Point is, though, I agree with some other issue being possible; but the OP is still required to go…simple to me. Do it and get over it, or choose not to confirm at this time.

I know I sound tough on this kid, but it is not negotiable. If the bishop requires this, do it and be finished with it.

However, what is the canonical requirement here?

 

[cviolette]

All three of my boys did not want to do the retreat for confirmation. All three went and ended up enjoying it. You might end up learning something and enjoying the retreat.

 

[Nec5]

I remember going on two retreats during confirmation. They were pretty much a waste of time filled with happy talk. A new venue isn’t necessary for learning about God and ourselves.

 

[benedictgal]

I was researching the web and came across this:

Prot. N. 2607/98/L

With respect to Your Excellency’s first point, it is no doubt true that there is a pastoral judgment to be made in such cases, **provided that by “pastoral judgment” one is speaking of the obligation of the Sacred Pastors to determine whether those elements required by the revised Code of Canon Law are indeed present, namely, that the person be baptized, have the use of reason, be suitably instructed, and be properly disposed and able to renew the baptismal promises (cf. cam. 843, § 1; 889, §2). **This Dicastery notes from the testimony submitted by the family, as well as that provided by Your Excellency, that it is clear this young girl has satisfied each of the canonical requisites for reception of the Sacrament.

In regard to Your Excellency’s second point, while it is clear that the Diocesan Policy is within the right inherent in the law in light of the complementary legislation for the Conference of Bishops to which you belong for can. 891, it **is also clear that any such complementary legislation must always be interpreted in accord with the general norm of law. As has been stated before, the Code of Canon Law legislates that Sacred Ministers may not deny the Sacraments to those who opportunely ask for them, are properly disposed and are not prohibited by law from receiving them (cf. can. 843 §1). **Since it has been demonstrated that the girl possesses these requisite qualities, any other considerations, even those contained in the Diocesan Policy, need to be understood in subordination to the general norms governing the reception of the Sacraments.

The Congregation considers it useful to point out that it is the role of the parents as the primary educators of their children and then of the Sacred Pastors to see that candidates for the reception of the Sacrament of Confirmation are properly instructed to receive the Sacrament and come to it at the opportune time (cf. can. 890). Consequently, when a member of the faithful wishes to receive this Sacrament, even though not satisfying one or more elements of the local legislation (e.g., being younger than the designated age for administration of the Sacrament), those elements must give way to the fundamental right of the faithful to receive the Sacraments. Indeed, the longer the conferral of the Sacrament is delayed after the age of reason, the greater will be the number of candidates who are prepared for its reception but are deprived of its grace for a considerable period of time.

In conclusion, this Congregation for Divine worship must insist, given the concrete circumstances of the case under consideration, that the opportunity to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation be extended to the girl as soon as is conveniently possible.

The back story was that an 11-year old girl wanted to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation in anticipation of the diocesan bishop’s decision to move the age to the sophomore year of high school. The girl’s parents did not agree with the bishop’s decision to not confer the sacrament on the girl. They wrote to the CDWDS and, after an investigation, the CDWDS ruled that the child should receive the sacrament. The above quoted letter, I believe, should be used as a reference point when these matters happen.

 

[puzzleannie]

The bishop, not the DRE, not the catechist, not the pastor is the ordinary minister of confirmation (although he can delegate any priest) and he is the sole authority of what constitutes the age for confirmation, the timing, and the preparation in his diocese. As I suggest your best recourse is to inquire in the bishop’s office to see the rules that apply to your situation (Catholic youth, Catholic adult, baptized non-Catholic etc.). If the bishop says a retreat is required, then it is required. Personal preferance has absolutely NO weight in this. Each diocese has particular law, which applies general canon law to that diocese and has been approved by the local bishop. Find out what it is, then comply with it. Recall that it is the bishop who confirms your Christian initiation, which you accept with gratitude and humility from him, and in the perfect obedience that characterizes the Christian.

 

[Lapey]

However, what is the canonical requirement here?

I guess I believe the canonical requirement is to comply with the requirements of the bishop’s guidelines.

There are always circumstances that cause deviation, as in RCIA and RCIC. But for Catholic kids who come through the normal process they go by the mandates set forth by the bishop.

I tend to agree with BysCath, the norms of confirmation can be to confirm as an infant. There was actually some chatter a while back about that, not sure where or why.

My comments do not mean that I agree with high school age being the right time, I just believe that what ever the requirements are for us, we should comply.

Our diocese used to be 8th grade, it changed when our current bishop took over about 6 years ago.

Many people put on retreats, some are good some are full of fluff. Some give kids meat and change lives, some give nothing but milk and cause nausea. I guess what I am saying is, if your home parish program is unorthodox or just not filling the void, get involved and change it.

To the OP, if the program is so bad, come back after confirmation and change it by getting involved. Get your parents and God parents involved. But I will repeat what I have said, if it is required for you to go to this retreat, then do it. If it turns out to be something that is incredibly lame, report it to the bishop’s office. Whatever you dislike about it, talk with your pastor. On the other hand, if you like it, let them know about it.

 

[Lapey]

I was researching the web and came across this:

The back story was that an 11-year old girl wanted to receive the Sacrament of Confirmation in anticipation of the diocesan bishop’s decision to move the age to the sophomore year of high school. The girl’s parents did not agree with the bishop’s decision to not confer the sacrament on the girl. They wrote to the CDWDS and, after an investigation, the CDWDS ruled that the child should receive the sacrament. The above quoted letter, I believe, should be used as a reference point when these matters happen.

In my experience, there are very few kids at this age that are truly ready. On the other hand, if you believe in the work of Grace through te Holy Spirit, I guess God can prepare them. However, the canon does require that we the parents and Church prepare these little ones. Who’s opinion do you follow as to what is proper preperation, my bishop, your bishop? Who knows?

 

[benedictgal]

The bishop, not the DRE, not the catechist, not the pastor is the ordinary minister of confirmation (although he can delegate any priest) and he is the sole authority of what constitutes the age for confirmation, the timing, and the preparation in his diocese. As I suggest your best recourse is to inquire in the bishop’s office to see the rules that apply to your situation (Catholic youth, Catholic adult, baptized non-Catholic etc.). If the bishop says a retreat is required, then it is required. Personal preferance has absolutely NO weight in this. Each diocese has particular law, which applies general canon law to that diocese and has been approved by the local bishop. Find out what it is, then comply with it. Recall that it is the bishop who confirms your Christian initiation, which you accept with gratitude and humility from him, and in the perfect obedience that characterizes the Christian.

Actually, the CDWDS made some very interesting observations:

it is also clear that any such complementary legislation must always be interpreted in accord with the general norm of law. As has been stated before, the Code of Canon Law legislates that Sacred Ministers may not deny the Sacraments to those who opportunely ask for them, are properly disposed and are not prohibited by law from receiving them (cf. can. 843 §1). Since it has been demonstrated that the girl possesses these requisite qualities, any other considerations, **even those contained in the Diocesan Policy, need to be understood in subordination to the general norms governing the reception of the Sacraments. **

Thus, the Universal law also needs to be examined. That is, I believe, the essence of what the CDWDS noted.

 

[Lapey]

The bishop, not the DRE, not the catechist, not the pastor is the ordinary minister of confirmation (although he can delegate any priest) and he is the sole authority of what constitutes the age for confirmation, the timing, and the preparation in his diocese. As I suggest your best recourse is to inquire in the bishop’s office to see the rules that apply to your situation (Catholic youth, Catholic adult, baptized non-Catholic etc.). If the bishop says a retreat is required, then it is required. Personal preferance has absolutely NO weight in this. Each diocese has particular law, which applies general canon law to that diocese and has been approved by the local bishop. Find out what it is, then comply with it. Recall that it is the bishop who confirms your Christian initiation, which you accept with gratitude and humility from him, and in the perfect obedience that characterizes the Christian.

Amen, Puzzleannie. As a deacon in my diocese, I am subject to the bishop. If he says I am not properly disposed to preach or baptize, guess what, no matter how mad I get i have no right to do those things. All faculties flow through the bishop, for priest, and deacons.

 

[Timothysis]

What I am saying is that perhaps there is an underlying problem here, a serious one. We cannot automatically assume that the OP does not want to go to the retreat simply because he does not want to go.

He did refer to it as a “stupid retreat.” Is that enough to let him out?

 

[paperwight66]

Point is, though, I agree with some other issue being possible; but the OP is still required to go…simple to me. Do it and get over it, or choose not to confirm at this time.

I know I sound tough on this kid, but it is not negotiable. If the bishop requires this, do it and be finished with it.

I’m not so sure it’s that cut-and-dried. In our parish, there used to be a residential retreat, until the year a group of boys were caught going out of the window during the night to visit the girls’ house. So thereafter, it became just a day’s retreat.

Surely a parish priest must be granted some leeway to adjust the confirmation programme as he judges fit?

(In our diocese it will become a moot point in a year or so anyway, as the age of confirmation is being shifted to eight years old).

 

[Lapey]

Actually, the CDWDS made some very interesting observations:

Thus, the Universal law also needs to be examined. That is, I believe, the essence of what the CDWDS noted.

You may be correct here gal, but I would venture to say that there were some extenuating circumstances surrounded the fact that this was even answered, much less answered in the affirmative. Most letters protesting or petitioning things of this nature or never responded to, becuause the local ordinary has right and responsibility. Many just complain because they just want to not comply with the requirements, nothing more.

 

[benedictgal]

In my experience, there are very few kids at this age that are truly ready. On the other hand, if you believe in the work of Grace through te Holy Spirit, I guess God can prepare them. However, the canon does require that we the parents and Church prepare these little ones. Who’s opinion do you follow as to what is proper preperation, my bishop, your bishop? Who knows?

I don’t know if you read my post, but I think that the CDWDS answers the question here:

**The Congregation considers it useful to point out that it is the role of the parents as the primary educators of their children and then of the Sacred Pastors to see that candidates for the reception of the Sacrament of Confirmation are properly instructed to receive the Sacrament and come to it at the opportune time (cf. can. 890). Consequently, when a member of the faithful wishes to receive this Sacrament, even though not satisfying one or more elements of the local legislation (e.g., being younger than the designated age for administration of the Sacrament), those elements must give way to the fundamental right of the faithful to receive the Sacraments. Indeed, the longer the conferral of the Sacrament is delayed after the age of reason, the greater will be the number of candidates who are prepared for its reception but are deprived of its grace for a considerable period of time. **

Again, when formulating diocesan policy, the local Ordinary, as I read the CDWDS interpretation, needs to do so in light of the Universal Law.

EDIT: I guess I was typing while you were posting.

 

[Lapey]

I’m not so sure it’s that cut-and-dried. In our parish, there used to be a residential retreat, until the year a group of boys were caught going out of the window during the night to visit the girls’ house. So thereafter, it became just a day’s retreat.

Surely a parish priest must be granted some leeway to adjust the confirmation programme as he judges fit?

(In our diocese it will become a moot point in a year or so anyway, as the age of confirmation is being shifted to eight years oldI personally believe this is the way to go. First Eucharist and confirmation at the same time, in second grade.).

You are partially right, the parish priest can make his own requirements and ask for less, however, the bishop can surely “fix” the disobedient prists. This has happened in my diocese and our bishop hasn’t corrected them. So in a sense they have changed it for their parish, but the bishop can most certainly correct this, as he alone makes the rules for his diocese.

 

[Lapey]

I don’t know if you read my post, but I think that the CDWDS answers the question here:

Again, when formulating diocesan policy, the local Ordinary, as I read the CDWDS interpretation, needs to do so in light of the Universal Law.

I’m not gisagreing with you, just pointing out that each bishop makes his policy. We will not have much order if every parent sends a letter in asking for something different and the committee complyes. Not very often are these type complaints acted upon. If it would be so, then the local ordinary would not be in control.

That’s my only point, I’m not arguing.

I guess I would ask the OP to elaborate on the whys and the why nots of the decision to not go to the retreat.

 

[crystal_waters]

i thank yo for helping me but i will not quit on this issue until i get my own jusstice for not being confirm for a dumb retreat !

i never had to do a retreat to get confirmed…ask if there is something alternate you can do…

 

[benedictgal]

I’m not gisagreing with you, just pointing out that each bishop makes his policy. We will not have much order if every parent sends a letter in asking for something different and the committee complyes. Not very often are these type complaints acted upon. If it would be so, then the local ordinary would not be in control.

That’s my only point, I’m not arguing.

I guess I would ask the OP to elaborate on the whys and the why nots of the decision to not go to the retreat.

In my earlier reply to you, I was typing as you were posting.

I certainly do not want to get into an argument with you. The point that I am trying to make is that the universal law needs to be considered when formulating diocesan policy.

On a related note, I also found it rather interesting that the CDWDS was concerned about the policies to delay the Sacrament of Confirmation.

 

[FAB]

Hello people,
I am a 15 year old boy who is doing his first year of conformation and we have a retreat coming up that I do not want to go to because I am not comfortable and just really don’t want to go (plzz respect that) But, my youth minister said i have to do it in order to confirm it gets me mad to think just for not going to a retreat i cannot be with god i am a nice person go to church do my part to be a great citizen and i just want to find out a way to get ut of going to this retreat and still able to confirm because from my point of view a retreat shouldn’t be the decider if you confirm or not it should be if your one with god you believe in him and if you trust him that should be the reason to confirm not a RETREAT!!!
PLLLZZ help any person out their that has been in my shoes or anyone out their that thinks i have a point i would really appreciate that PLZZ help!

There are certain times we must walk in humility and bow to wisdom of others. My diocese requires that young men and women who are seeking to be confirmed go to at least two retreats.
If you you go with a closed mind and heart, you will get nothing from it. The purpose is for your benifit, so you can spend time away from your daily life and focus on your relationship with the Lord.
You should also remember that in confirmation you are in a very real way saying for yourself that you believe in the Church and it’s teachings. Even though there are Catholics that voice their opinion, in the end we are called upon in the Canon of the Church to obey it’s leaders, that can be the priest with authority from the bishop, or your youth director with authority from the preist.
I would suggest that you find a way to put your objections aside and do what you have been requested. The retreats I attended when a teenager did what they were ment to do, bring me closer to the Lord. The gifts and seeds that were planted lead me to seek a life as an ordained minister in the Church. By the way, those seeking ordiantion are required by the canon to go on a five day retreat.