MERGED: Pope Francis and Blessed Mother and orphans

[mattsierp82]

So I was on Facebook the other day, and was looking at #popefrancis, and there is this article titled, “Pope Francis, Mary Is Not My Mother, and I AM Not An Ophan”.

I didn’t understand why they posted it to the actual page for the Pope. It has taken things and twisted it very badly. I commented on the Facebook post, then one of my friends saw I did as well and posted the actual transcript of what the Pope said and it was of course deleted.

charismanews.com/opinion/watchman-on-the-wall/45287-pope-francis-mary-is-not-my-mother-and-i-am-not-an-orphan

I understand there are many out here who don’t understand our teachings, and go after us, but I wanted others to see this. We need to defend the Church. To me that means being vocal when something is being misconstrued.

 

[rfournier103]

There’s a discussion about this on a Baptist web forum that is none-too-favorable…

I don’t know what else to say except that we have to educate ourselves, and others about who we are and what we believe. Of course, there will always be those who will say that we are wrong; but the ones we must educate are those that aren’t as vitriolic as the minority that have no interest in learning about the Faith.

 

[WesleyF]

On Sept 2, the Pope tweeted -

The Christian who does not feel that the Virgin Mary is his or her mother is an orphan.

So essentially the pope is saying that all non-Catholic Christians who do not regard Mary as their mother are orphans. Whereas the Bible says that the Holy Spirit is the spirit of sonship and it is through the spirit that we call God our Father.

For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the spirit of sonship. When we cry, “Abba! Father!” It is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God - Romans 8:14-16

And the Catechism itself recognizes that these Christians do have the Holy Spirit -

“Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.” - CCC 819

So how can the Pope’s statement be correct? I think the statement is wrong.

 

[friardchips]

Pope Francis is a great pope and if anyone was going to make amazing statements about Our Lady for people to take note it was always going to be him.

 

[friardchips]

As for the article itself, it really gets under my skin. What Bible is this person reading? Maybe educated people will write to inform this person of her theological errors. It is one thing to have a personal opinion, it is another thing altogether for a writer to maliciously spread their lack of knowledge about such things, to a wider audience. But the storm always had to come. Where Our Lady is held in contempt or denied her part in our lives is where evil is just around the corner. At some point, everyone will know and understand that Our Lady is to be accepted as their Mother, and this is a day to look forward to. Patience and prayer will see this day come.

Ave Maria!

 

[pianistclare]

Well, Mary is the mother of Jesus.
Jesus is our brother.
Seems correct to me.

I know you might be seeking a big theological discussion, but some things are just basic. We Catholics think of her as our mother because we know Jesus is human and Divine. And since He is Divine, He is our universal brother. Not just a brother to “some”. He came to redeem everyone. So, it follows that she is mother to everyone.
She is our intercessor. Some people spend a lot of time trying to discredit her as someone special. But she does/did have a special place in salvation history. She’s our advocate.
I think this is what he is speaking to. I think he is saying "don’t believe that you have no one that understands you, you are NOT an orphan, your Blessed Mother prays for you.
Just my 2 cents…
Peace.

 

[Memaw]

On Sept 2, the Pope tweeted -

So essentially the pope is saying that all non-Catholic Christians who do not regard Mary as their mother are orphans. Whereas the Bible says that the Holy Spirit is the spirit of sonship and it is through the spirit that we call God our Father.

And the Catechism itself recognizes that these Christians do have the Holy Spirit -

So how can the Pope’s statement be correct? I think the statement is wrong.

If you are Catholic then you should understand what the Pope meant. Mary is the Second Eve, Mother of all mankind. Jesus said, “Behold your Mother” and HE knows we need her to help us in our journey through life. Don’t read anything into what the Holy Father is saying that isn’t there. Mary gave birth to Jesus and doing that she also ‘gave birth’ to our salvation. If we reject our Spiritual Mother are we not orphans?? Trust her, she will lead us to her SON !! God Bless, Memaw

 

[Dorothy]

As I read these particular posts I can’t help but think that we who are devoted to Our Lady and are aware of the blessings and graces that come through her need to also spread devotion to her in our own Catholic
Church!

Then she will increase the Life of her Son in us, and others will begin to notice.

May the Light in the Body of Christ, the Church, increase so that the darkness in the world recedes!

 

[rcwitness]

Interesting and provocative comment! However, NOT antagonistic.

Im not that into the “religious devotionals” to our mother in Jesus, but I definitely do not deny a motherhood which was given to her by divine appointing. How one observes their relationship with her is something I do not limit to statues, Rosary prayers (in a strict sense of rececitating and how often), consecrations, tatoos, medals, and so on.

Neither am I one to use the mere fact that she physically bore Jesus into the world as a reason for her motherhood to me. It was because she believed and obeyed the Holy Spirit to accept the Messiah AND offer her son, as messiah, to be sacrificed for us all. This was her heart willingly made subjected to the sword of a broken heart out of love.

We can do no more honor to her than obeying her Son.

What I take from our good pope’s comment, is if we obey her Son, we will acknowledge the gift of seeing Mary as presented to the Church as the holy example of motherhood, with true yet mystical connections to all of us who love Jesus.

And those who truly deny this in their heart, have a fundamental rejection of a healthy relationship with Jesus. That being said, some genuine Christians are hardened by a fear of idolatry after seeing Catholics boast about their devotion to Mary while behaving contrary to the Gospel commands. They may have a certain level of respect to her as a mother of all Christians, but are resentfull to bad examples and hypocrates from within the Catholic faithfull.

 

[Richard_White]

Pope Francis’ comment is perfectly good and very nice. Mary is Mother of God and Mother of the Church. She was given to us by Jesus, her Son, as our Mother and she is. Therefore, if you do not recognize Mary as your Mother, then its true that you are an “orphan,” so to speak.

May God bless you abundantly with the Light of His Truth!

 

[Jeanne_S]

I agree with all of the responses,nothing more to add,other than,I personally take great comfort in knowing that when my earthly mother in her nineties,departs,I won’t be an “orphan”.I will have my Mama Mary to comfort and console and love me!

 

[WesleyF]

If we reject our Spiritual Mother are we not orphans??

But an orphan is a person without BOTH parents. The non-Catholic Christians clearly have God as their father, so in no way are they orphans even if they don’t “feel” Mary is their mother.

 

[chero23]

But an orphan is a person without BOTH parents. The non-Catholic Christians clearly have God as their father, so in no way are they orphans even if they don’t “feel” Mary is their mother.

If I may, I think when you say Mary is not your Mother you can forget about God’s divinity.
Yes we do have a Father in od, but Jesus as our God, our Brother, he has a mother and shes our mother, and if we deny her, we deny him.

 

[WesleyF]

If I may, I think when you say Mary is not your Mother you can forget about God’s divinity.

How so?

Yes we do have a Father in od, but Jesus as our God, our Brother, he has a mother and shes our mother, and if we deny her, we deny him.

So how then does anyone who deny Jesus have the Holy Spirit? You think that’s possible? Yet the Catechism claims that these non-Catholic Christians do have the Holy Spirit. So it means they’re not denying Jesus by denying that Mary is their mother.

It doesn’t make them orphans. They have a Father.

 

[MPat]

But an orphan is a person without BOTH parents.

Actually, I didn’t expect that… So, I had to look at definitions. merriam-webster.com/dictionary/orphan - “a child deprived by death of one or usually both parents”, en.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=orphan&oldid=28543545 - “A person, especially a minor, both or (rarely) one of whose parents have died.”.

So, it is unlikely, but possible for someone without one parent be called an “orphan”. But that’s English; in Lithuanian the corresponding word (“našlaitis”) is used in both cases without preference (that’s why that was unexpected for me). I wonder how it is in Italian or Spanish…?

es.wiktionary.org/w/index.php?title=hu%C3%A9rfano&oldid=2064100 says “Dicho de un infante, que ha perdido uno o ambos progenitores” and I suspect that “uno o ambos” could mean “one or both”… I guess that would explain this misunderstanding.

 

[chero23]

How so?

So how then does anyone who deny Jesus have the Holy Spirit? You think that’s possible? Yet the Catechism claims that these non-Catholic Christians do have the Holy Spirit. So it means they’re not denying Jesus by denying that Mary is their mother.

It doesn’t make them orphans. They have a Father.

To the first part. Remember Jesus existed before man kind, he says before Abraham I was. If you say, :Oh Mary is not the Mother of God", then your saying Jesus is not God. If you say Jesus didnt become God til he was 30, making Mary the mother of Jesus the human not the divine then you get yourself into some contradictory territory, like I said making you forget about Christ’s divinity.

How do you know that they have the Holy Spirit? Remember if you are wrong about things, your going to continue to be wrong on things b/c inside you think that your ok. Jesus told us, whoever wants to be my disciple follow me. Jesus then tells us while he’s in the Cross, there’s your mother. I don’t see how you could have it both ways.

 

[WesleyF]

I suspect that “uno o ambos” could mean “one or both”… I guess that would explain this misunderstanding.

I am actually surprised that neither the pope nor any one from the Vatican has spoken about this yet. They are usually quick to explain misunderstandings about anything the pope might have said, but regarding this they’ve just allowed such a huge insult to the non-Catholic Christians to be kept online on twitter without saying anything about it.

 

[WesleyF]

To the first part. Remember Jesus existed before man kind, he says before Abraham I was. If you say, :Oh Mary is not the Mother of God", then your saying Jesus is not God.

There is no issue about this. A lot of them would agree that Mary is the Mother of God (Jesus). But they don’t see that as therefore making her their own mother. Jesus himself said, “whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother, and sister, and mother” (Matthew 12:50). So they would regard even themselves as mothers of Jesus (if they’re women).

How do you know that they have the Holy Spirit?

The Catechism itself claims it in the quote I provided earlier (CCC 819).

Jesus then tells us while he’s in the Cross, there’s your mother. I don’t see how you could have it both ways.

But they interpret it as being said to John alone and not necessarily to the entire church (even if Catholics may believe that’s an invalid interpretation). So they’re not willingly disobedient to the word. They are just ignorant. It’s not as if God is going to cease being their Father if they are mistaken about some doctrines of the Bible.

 

[chero23]

There is no issue about this. A lot of them would agree that Mary is the Mother of God (Jesus). But they don’t see that as therefore making her their own mother. Jesus himself said, “whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother, and sister, and mother” (Matthew 12:50). So they would regard even themselves as mothers of Jesus (if they’re women).

The Catechism itself claims it in the quote I provided earlier (CCC 819).

But they interpret it as being said to John alone and not necessarily to the entire church (even if Catholics may believe that’s an invalid interpretation). So they’re not willingly disobedient to the word. They are just ignorant. It’s not as if God is going to cease being their Father if they are mistaken about some doctrines of the Bible.

But see that passage refers to all of us. We both agree is ignorance on their probably not intentionally but at the end it is. We both know that and support it, I don’t know why then were on opposite ends on the same issue?

 

[1ke]

The Church teaches (CCC paragraph 181), quoting St Cyprian: “No one can have God as Father who does not have the Church as Mother”.

the problem lies not with Pope Francis’ statement but with your interpretation of it. You are trying to apply to it something that he is not saying. By your logic the above statement is also “wrong”. But of course it’s not wrong.