What is the answer you’re getting, and do you find the information satisfactory? I won’t attempt to answer, being just an ex-Mormon, but there is an LDS website you can get information from, and, if there’s one nearby, I’m sure you could twist some arms at the local Stake center and get some firsthand information from Mormon Missionaries.What is with the spirit Children and things like natives being Israelites? I never get an answer from Mormons, only ex-Mormons tell me, and it always come out to be the same.
Thank you for admitting the Aris data is nowhere near reliable.There’s a report on the ARIS site that gives actual numbers. The LDS church claims membership in the USA in 1990 at 4,175,000, growing to 5,974,041 in 2008. The ARIS numbers, gathered with a nationwide telephone survey reaching 54,461 households in 2008 and 113,723 in 1990, estimated LDS membership to have grown from 2,487,000 to 3,158,000. The document explains that the ARIS numbers are lower overall due to their survey only including adults, whereas church membership records also include children. So, yes, I’d say that both sets of data indicate growth in membership.
We aren’t talking about other religions, we are talking mormons. Nice red herring you got going there.Thank you for the interesting American Religious Survey Chart. I may have missed the point of this discussion, but it seems that lack of growth is a Christian problem and not only an LDS problem.
The survey indicates that from 54,000 surveyed in 1990 and 2008 that the LDS population was maintained at 1.4% of the population. The survey showed a 0% increase as a percentage of the total U S population. However, the U. S. population grew between 1990 and 2008, and therefore the population of the LDS Church in the U S also grew. If you take the increase in the U S population from 1990 to 2008 X 1.4 that will show the growth of the population of the LDS church according to the survey.
However, this survey considers only the U S population. The conversion rate for LDS is growing very fast in some places such as Africa.
The same survey that showed 0% increase in the LDS percentage of the U S population showed a -1.1% for Catholics, -3.5% for Baptists, -5.8% for mainline Protestants and a +6.8% for “no religion.” So what is the problem?
Traditionalism, I’ll answer the question if I can, but can you explain a little better? I’m not sure I understand. Thanks.What is with the spirit Children and things like natives being Israelites? I never get an answer from Mormons, only ex-Mormons tell me, and it always come out to be the same.
I liked the chart you posted, I thanked you for posting it, and I made some coments- Sorry.We aren’t talking about other religions, we are talking mormons. Nice red herring you got going there.
We were also talking about the missing 1 million from Brazil, not Africa. You realize those are two different continents right?
I am glad you distinguish a difference between being mormon and being Christian though.
But again, we’re talking about mormons not reporting numbers accurately, not other religions.
“Utah leads the nation in prescriptions for anti-depressants, according to a recent study.”Remember, LDS are the most gullible. And not just because they still follow Joseph, who was a known con-man. Utah, where the Mormons are huge percentage of the population, is also the state with the most multi-level marketing schemes.
From a news site:
“These schemes have proliferated in Utah to the point that the state holds a commanding lead over all other states in per capita sponsorship of multilevel marketing (MLM) programs, with pay plans that primarily reward recruitment of participants as customers and in which relatively few products are legitimately sold on a retail basis to end users. In fact, Utah County has the highest concentration of MLM schemes, with no county in the country holding even a close second place.”
If you look at missionary work and the missionary plan, it is run a LOT like a multi-level scheme. You get a Mormon and they invite friends over and you teach the friends. Then when you baptize them, you get THEIR friends and and so on and so on.
I don’t remember making any such statement, and you didn’t question its reliability a few posts ago when you used its contents to deride Mormon missionary efforts. I was merely following up mtolympus’s observation that the ARIS study twopekinguys submitted showed zero growth as a percentage of the total US population between 1990 and 2008, but that since the US population went up, so did the number of Mormons. The website for that study showed an increase from 2,487,000 to 3,158,000.Thank you for admitting the Aris data is nowhere near reliable.
Mormon youth are always told to invite friends to church activities no matter their religious affiliation. “Invite your friends of other faiths to your Church meetingsRemember, LDS are the most gullible. And not just because they still follow Joseph, who was a known con-man. Utah, where the Mormons are huge percentage of the population, is also the state with the most multi-level marketing schemes.
From a news site:
“These schemes have proliferated in Utah to the point that the state holds a commanding lead over all other states in per capita sponsorship of multilevel marketing (MLM) programs, with pay plans that primarily reward recruitment of participants as customers and in which relatively few products are legitimately sold on a retail basis to end users. In fact, Utah County has the highest concentration of MLM schemes, with no county in the country holding even a close second place.”
If you look at missionary work and the missionary plan, it is run a LOT like a multi-level scheme. You get a Mormon and they invite friends over and you teach the friends. Then when you baptize them, you get THEIR friends and and so on and so on.
Go back and read what you what. There is nothing definitive or even reliable. It is guessing.I don’t remember making any such statement, and you didn’t question its reliability a few posts ago when you used its contents to deride Mormon missionary efforts. I was merely following up mtolympus’s observation that the ARIS study twopekinguys submitted showed zero growth as a percentage of the total US population between 1990 and 2008, but that since the US population went up, so did the number of Mormons. The website for that study showed an increase from 2,487,000 to 3,158,000.
That study also states that their numbers are lower than LDS membership records due to their study not taking children into account (in this case, the difference is nearly three million). We don’t know about twopekinguys’s missing million members in Brazil; the article he linked to simply said:
"Because he doesn’t know Portuguese, Martinich, project manager for the Cumorah Foundation, which tracks LDS growth, couldn’t read background on Brazil’s census to know if there was any difference in the data collection this time around. In many Latin American countries, for example, only the head of household fills out the census forms, he said. “If the father is Catholic, and his wife and children are Mormon, he might fill out the form as if everyone is Catholic.”
Tex -Thank you for admitting the Aris data is nowhere near reliable.
I think this can be mostly explained by the scientific principle that anything in higher concentration than its surroundings will tend toward equalibrium with its surroundings. This simply means that there are more Mormons moving out of Utah and more non-Mormons moving into Utah. The ARIS national survey clearly shows that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is holding its own compared to other Christian churches.The data is reliable enough to have an apples to apples comparison of the % people self identifying themselves as Mormon in Utah. The Mormon “marketshare” in Utah decreased dramatically over the 18 years. I wonder how much this was due to the internet and the availability of information to Mormons. Utah and Idaho in particular are no longer so isolated. So Mormons in Utah went from 7 in 10 to 6 in 10 by 2008. Wonder what the future holds with so many young Mormons leaving?
“The ARIS records a more modest 21% increase in the adult Mormon population in Utah between 1990 and 2008. This increase has failed to keep pace with growth in the state‘s overall population. ARIS data estimates that the LDS ―market share in Utah fell from 69% in 1990 to 57% in 2008.”
Yep“Utah leads the nation in prescriptions for anti-depressants, according to a recent study.”
“And with the nation’s ninth highest suicide rate, Utah is even getting the federal government’s attention.”
cbsnews.com/2100-18563_162-510918.html
I received my resignation approval e-mail today from the local bishopIm curious as to who “they” is TexanKnight. Was this someone in an official capacity and knowledge of LDS policy? Or just the average Mormon who probably doesnt really factually know and was trying to lay a guilt trip on you?
The fact is, you could actually go back. If you have officially resigned you would need to be re-baptized and re-confirmed. If you had been thru the temple, after a period of time your endowment would be “re-instated” .
Not sure if you would have to be re-ordained to the priesthood however.
Sealings would also be “re-instated”
Looks like the world population graphThe truth of the mater is that the LDS church has grown by about 2% per year over the last ten years. Before that time the church in many years grew much faster. Here is a graph of church membership by year.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d5/LDSGrowth.png/800px-LDSGrowth.png
Now you can argue about details but the data is clear. The LDS church continues to grow decade by decade.
1 Million missing members is a “few members”?
Here are figures that dispute the reported growth in the US. Notice the very last column on the right labeled “change”. You will see for the mormon church, 1990-2008 (18 yrs), change is 0. Not much of a growth there now is it?
http://www.salamandersociety.com/foyer/attendance/1990_2008_mormon_stagnation.jpg
Since Joseph Smith tol that the Book of Mormon was brought to him (in golden plates)Going to heaven has nothing to do with being “Mormon”. At the time of Christ, being called a Christian was a derogatory description of a person but became a complementary term of identification. Being called a “Mormon” was also a derogatroy way to identify and destinguish a person from the “Christian” faith. To Latter-day Saints, Mormon continues to have a little bit of a negative conotation. Mormon was one of the last prophets that lived anciently on this, what we now call the American continent. He compiled the records of his people (that covered almost 1,000 years) into what we have today “The Book of Mormon”. Mormon was not the author but the compiler of this record. We are called Mormon’s today because of the Book of Mormon. The name of the church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Many of the LDS (the abreviated name of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) still identify themselves as Mormons (as do I) because the world, in general, is more familiar with that name and it is easier (yes, I tend to be lazy) to refer to Mormon than to go thruough a sermon to correct anyone for the improper use of the name. It is much easier to say I am LDS, Latter-day Saint, or Mormon than to say, "I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I began by stating that Going to heaven has nothing to do with being “Mormon”. Going to heaven has everything to do with the Atonement of Jesus Christ and following in His footsteps. And what does it mean to follow in his footsteps? To members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (see how cumbersome that is rathing than just saying Mormon or LDS) it is to obey His commandments.
What’s the ideas on the “spirit children”?Traditionalism, I’ll answer the question if I can, but can you explain a little better? I’m not sure I understand. Thanks.