MERGED: Standing From The Peace Of Christ Until Everybody Has Received Holy Communion. Why?

[ElisabethM]

To expand, WE receive Communion at Mass. “I” don’t receive Communion, WE receive. So while the procession is in progress, we stand and sing the communal song, a prayer. The Church instructs that WE join in this communal thanksgiving BEFORE we engage in our private thanksgiving. We are to show our UNITY of spirit by the UNITY of our voices.

I find it curious that the new translation has returned the Credo to its true translation: “**I **believe,” but now there’s this new insistence on expressing “solidarity” and “unity” by standing together during Communion. Maybe it’s time to return to the notion that “Holy Communion” is much, much more about the individual’s Communion with His Lord than the “kumbaya-ish” communion with the congregation. The former has REAL substance; the latter just empty show. I am certain that the more we recognize Our Lord in the Holy Eucharist and worship and adore him there, REAL unity and community among parishoners will increase. It won’t come about by standing, sitting, kneeling, singing or being in the same place together. We come to Mass at the church together because that’s where we find the Holy Eucharist, not because others happen to be there.

em

 

[Tigg]

Why do so many Catholics seem to abhor this communal time of prayer at the most important part of the Mass?

Why should private prayer be a priority when one is in the midst of a crowd?

Because after I receive, I must praise and thank Him for this greatest of gifts, not place HIM second behind the crowd. At this point, why would the focus be on community instead of the King?

 

[sedonaman]

…

Is this the same for American Catholics?

There are a few of what I call “stand they all the time” parishes. My sister’s parish even took out all of the pews. How much more “solidarity” can you get by standing vs. kneeling? How much more faithful can you get by referring to Mass as “liturgy”? The marginal gains appear to be so miniscule that they are undetectable, even by the most observant. Surely they are lost on the rest of us hoi polloi.

 

[Waiting]

Because after I receive, I must praise and thank Him for this greatest of gifts, not place HIM second behind the crowd. At this point, why would the focus be on community instead of the King?

 

[Canto]

Cardinal Arinze may want to revisit the GIRM, as it was already quoted above. To expand, WE receive Communion at Mass. “I” don’t receive Communion, WE receive.

I receive Communion at Mass
My little cousin does not
Pro abort politicians do not receive the grace of Communion

So while the procession is in progress, we stand and sing the communal song, a prayer. The Church instructs that WE join in this communal thanksgiving BEFORE we engage in our private thanksgiving. We are to show our UNITY of spirit by the UNITY of our voices.

Traditionally the Communion Chant was sung by the choir. All the old and even new missals that I have seen have prayers composed from some of the Church’s greatest saints for us lay people to pray before and after receiving Communion.

Why do so many Catholics seem to abhor this communal time of prayer at the most important part of the Mass?

Why should private prayer be a priority when one is in the midst of a crowd?

Before receiving Communion I would much rather pray one of St Thomas’ prayers than some folksy pop song about we and us that downplays the real-presence. The fact that we are about to be face to face literally with our God.

When Jesus gives Himself to me, while we are one Church, it’s me and Him. No one could know my disposition, my thoughts, intentions etc. It is a very intimate encounter.

 

[Canto]

When the GIRM was first promulgated the first question that went to Rome was 'does GIRM 43 mean that the faithful who have been used to kneeling upon returning from Communion can no longer do so?
The reply was “No, the posture is not regulated so rigidly that they can’t sit or kneel if they wish.”

So while it’s true that, per GIRM 43, the posture from Communion until the period of silent prayer is standing, people are still free to kneel or sit according to the Congregation for Divine Worship.

The GIRM does not explicitly say stand for this part.
Some read, stand except where noted, as meaning stand for this part.
Some read, kneel after the Agnus Dei, as meaning kneel for this part.
But perhaps a moot point as, as you note, the CDW says we can kneel or sit.

 

[WhiteLeather]

Because after I receive, I must praise and thank Him for this greatest of gifts, not place HIM second behind the crowd. At this point, why would the focus be on community instead of the King?

The focus isn’t on the community, it’s on the community - **as a community **- giving thanks. You’re not thanking the community. That wasn’t said or even implied. WE give thanks; it’s not about ME giving thanks.

 

[WhiteLeather]

I receive Communion at Mass
My little cousin does not
Pro abort politicians do not receive the grace of Communion

But the intent, the focus, the goal would be that all who attend Mass will receive Communion, isn’t it? The Mass is a phenominal prayer, which too many don’t view as a prayer, sadly. Still, all the prayers in the Mass lead us to the high point: Communion.

Traditionally the Communion Chant was sung by the choir. All the old and even new missals that I have seen have prayers composed from some of the Church’s greatest saints for us lay people to pray before and after receiving Communion.

Until the most recent Missal, the one we just stopped using, the assembly wasn’t even mentioned. Traditionally, the choir sang all of the music until some Protestant customs like opening and closing hymns started creeping in to low Masses. Your remark about prayers to say given by saints does not mention where in the Missal it says to say them - because the Missal doesn’t. That may be your own personal piety, but it’s not how Mass is to be celebrated.

It’s so easy to forget that when the Presider follows the Missal and allows for our private thanksgiving after all have received, you and I and anyone will have that opportunity to recite these prayers of the saints, or even just use our own humble words of thanks.

Before receiving Communion I would much rather pray one of St Thomas’ prayers than some folksy pop song about we and us that downplays the real-presence. The fact that we are about to be face to face literally with our God.

Again, this sounds like your own personal piety, but it’s not what the Missal calls for. If your parish musicians don’t know how to plan proper music for Mass, that still doesn’t excuse you or anyone from separating from the assembly for your own “druthers”. Before Communion, in the Communion Rite itself, we pray the Lord’s Prayer, we exchange peace with our fellow Catholics about to receive, the Bread is broken (or round tiddleywinks are shuffled between the ciboria), we again state our unworthiness to receive so great a gift, and then we process to receive.

If they followed Jewish tradition - and much in the New Testament tells us that they did - Jesus and the Apostles incorporated traditional songs into their Seder Meal, that we know as the Last Supper. Even as Jesus and the apostles went to Gethsemane, scripture tells us they sang hymns of praise. The Church asks us to also raise our collective voices in praise and thanksgiving as we receive our Lord in the Body and Blood of the Eucharist.

When Jesus gives Himself to me, while we are one Church, it’s me and Him. No one could know my disposition, my thoughts, intentions etc. It is a very intimate encounter.

…an “intimate” encounter that is experienced by the dozens or hundreds or even thousands with you in that church at that time. Add to that the thousands and millions of Catholics around the world also receiving our Lord on that day. None of the prayers in the Mass indicate that anything Jesus did was just for one person at a time. Even the change in some of the Eucharistic Prayers (from “all” to “many”) recognize it’s not a personal experience for any, but rather a blessed event we are all priviledged to experience.

Don’t use bad music planning or even just a song you don’t like as your excuse to recuse yourself from the assembly.

 

[Canto]

But the intent, the focus, the goal would be that all who attend Mass will receive Communion, isn’t it? The Mass is a phenominal prayer, which too many don’t view as a prayer, sadly. Still, all the prayers in the Mass lead us to the high point: Communion…

It is indeed a prayer, the singular greatest. When I receive Communion it’s me and God and I can’t speak for everyone else and their state. This Communion form us into one body.

Until the most recent Missal, the one we just stopped using, the assembly wasn’t even mentioned. Traditionally, the choir sang all of the music until some Protestant customs like opening and closing hymns started creeping in to low Masses. Your remark about prayers to say given by saints does not mention where in the Missal it says to say them - because the Missal doesn’t. That may be your own personal piety, but it’s not how Mass is to be celebrated…

These prayers were said before and after Mass and before and after receiving Communion, they can even be found in the soon to be published Catholic Truth Society UK daily Missal with full apostolic authority.

If you stand until everyone has received, if you’re one of the first to receive you might be standing around for a while and what if you can’t stand for long periods and you’re sitting while everyone else is standing?

I’ve been to EF, OF and very abused OF Masses in Australia but have never seen such a practice.

It’s so easy to forget that when the Presider follows the Missal and allows for our private thanksgiving after all have received, you and I and anyone will have that opportunity to recite these prayers of the saints, or even just use our own humble words of thanks…

When the Priestly Celebrant follows the Missal and the clarifications from the Holy See he will not make us stand around.

After Communion there can be a hymn of praise sung in lieu of private prayer.

After Communion and even before the Priest says quiet prayers for example:

May the receiving of your Body and Blood,
Lord Jesus Christ,
not bring me to judgment and condemnation,
but through your loving mercy
be for me protection in mind and body,
and a healing remedy.

Again, this sounds like your own personal piety, but it’s not what the Missal calls for.

Where in the Missal does it say after receiving Communion the faithful remain standing.

If your parish musicians don’t know how to plan proper music for Mass, that still doesn’t excuse you or anyone from separating from the assembly for your own “druthers”.

And yet the Holy See says individuals can sit or kneel after having received Communion.

Before Communion, in the Communion Rite itself, we pray the Lord’s Prayer, we exchange peace with our fellow Catholics about to receive, the Bread is broken (or round tiddleywinks are shuffled between the ciboria), we again state our unworthiness to receive so great a gift, and then we process to receive.

Yes and when we have offered each other Christ’s peace etc we go to receive Communion. But no everyone goes, some people go when Canon Law says they shouldn’t, we each meet our God.

If they followed Jewish tradition - and much in the New Testament tells us that they did - Jesus and the Apostles incorporated traditional songs into their Seder Meal, that we know as the Last Supper. Even as Jesus and the apostles went to Gethsemane, scripture tells us they sang hymns of praise. The Church asks us to also raise our collective voices in praise and thanksgiving as we receive our Lord in the Body and Blood of the Eucharist…

At the Last Supper Christ instituted his Eucharistic Sacrifice for the ages. And they sang a hymn and went off to the Garden. And when the Priest receives Communion the Communion Chant begins.

Don’t use bad music planning or even just a song you don’t like as your excuse to recuse yourself from the assembly.

I am part of the assembly throughout Mass, but before I receive I’d like to pray a little prayer, and such is my joy after receiving God I’d like to pray a prayer of thanksgiving straight away without delay. And I refuse to sing songs that are too hard to sing, that have lyrics that verge on heresy and that are not in accord with Church legislation on Sacred Music. One can never be forced to commit a liturgical abuse.

 

[Tigg]

WE give thanks; it’s not about ME giving thanks.

Your comments are an absolute distortion of individual obligation both before and after receiving communion. (CCC 1385 - To respond to this invitation we must prepare ourselves for so great and so holy a moment. 1386- “Lord,** I** am not worthy that you should enter under **my **roof, but only say the word and **my **soul will be healed.”) Even after Mass is over, we have further need of thanksgiving:

When the Mass, which is subject to special rules of the liturgy, is over, the person who has received holy communion is not thereby freed from his duty of thanksgiving; rather, it is most becoming that, when the Mass is finished, the person who has received the Eucharist should recollect himself, and in **intimate **union with the divine Master hold loving and fruitful converse with Him. Hence they have departed from the straight way of truth, who, adhering to the letter rather than the sense, assert and teach that, when Mass has ended, no such thanksgiving.

Pope Pius XII - “Mediator Dei”.(123)

…an “intimate” encounter that is experienced by the dozens or hundreds or even thousands with you in that church at that time. Add to that the thousands and millions of Catholics around the world also receiving our Lord on that day. None of the prayers in the Mass indicate that anything Jesus did was just for one person at a time. Even the change in some of the Eucharistic Prayers (from “all” to “many”) recognize it’s not a personal experience for any, but rather a blessed event we are all priviledged to experience.]

Moreover, the presence of Our Blessed Lord in his Sacred Humanity in the **soul **of the communicant is even more **intimate **than the presence of Our Lord when he was preaching to the multitudes or explaining in parables, his teaching to the disciples. He is present as food for the journey. In chapter 6 of St. John’s Gospel we are told that “He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me and I in him.” (link below)

Don’t use bad music planning or even just a song you don’t like as your excuse to recuse yourself from the assembly

I like what this priest has to say on the matter:

“Characteristic of modern theatrical church singing is the constant repetition of a theme, which goes on and on ad nauseam with regular beats which cause the toes to tap on the floor and the heart to thirst for distracting novelty rather than for the love of God. Otherwise there is some soothing melody which lulls to sleep or wafts the mind on its gentle breezes over a garden of delightful reminiscences or sensuous desires.

Very often today, the hymns and other activities within Mass can detract from the real meaning of the Mass as a sacrifice and as the victory of Our Lord on Easter morning.

catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0511.html

 

[garvan]

CIC

Can. 212 §1. Conscious of their own responsibility, the Christian faithful are bound to follow with Christian obedience those things which the sacred pastors, inasmuch as they represent Christ, declare as teachers of the faith or establish as rulers of the Church.
§2. The Christian faithful are free to make known to the pastors of the Church their needs, especially spiritual ones, and their desires.
§3. According to the knowledge, competence, and prestige which they possess, they have the right and even at times the duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church and to make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful, without prejudice to the integrity of faith and morals, with reverence toward their pastors, and attentive to common advantage and the dignity of persons.

Can. 750 §1. A person must believe with divine and Catholic faith all those things contained in the word of God, written or handed on, that is, in the one deposit of faith entrusted to the Church, and at the same time proposed as divinely revealed either by the solemn magisterium of the Church or by its ordinary and universal magisterium which is manifested by the common adherence of the Christian faithful under the leadership of the sacred magisterium; therefore all are bound to avoid any doctrines whatsoever contrary to them.
§2. Each and every thing which is proposed definitively by the magisterium of the Church concerning the doctrine of faith and morals, that is, each and every thing which is required to safeguard reverently and to expound faithfully the same deposit of faith, is also to be firm-ly embraced and retained; therefore, one who rejects those propositions which are to be held definitively is opposed to the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

Can. 751 Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.

Can. 752 Although not an assent of faith, a religious submission of the intellect and will must be given to a doctrine which the Supreme Pontiff or the college of bishops declares concerning faith or morals when they exercise the authentic magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim it by definitive act; therefore, the Christian faithful are to take care to avoid those things which do not agree with it.

Can. 753 Although the bishops who are in communion with the head and members of the college, whether individually or joined together in conferences of bishops or in particular councils, do not possess infallibility in teaching, they are authentic teachers and instructors of the faith for the Christian faithful entrusted to their care; the Christian faithful are bound to adhere with religious submission of mind to the authentic magisterium of their bishops.

Can. 754 All the Christian faithful are obliged to observe the constitutions and decrees which the legitimate authority of the Church issues in order to propose doctrine and to proscribe erroneous opinions, particularly those which the Roman Pontiff or the college of bishops puts forth.

 

[garvan]

Few Catholics are aware that certain traditional customs, known as “centenary” or “immemorial customs” take precedence over changes in liturgical laws contemplated by bishops’ conferences. Canon 26 of the CIC states: “. . . a custom contrary to the current canon law or one which is apart from canon law obtains the force of law only when it has been legitimately observed for thirty continuous and complete years”. The custom of kneeling after Communion has been observed not only for thirty years but from time “immemorial.”
Our Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI wrote in his Spirit of the Liturgy, "...bending the knee before the presence of the living God is something we cannot abandon . . ." He also wrote, "Where it has been lost, kneeling must be rediscovered, so that, in our prayer, we remain in fellowship with the apostles and martyrs . . . indeed in union with Jesus Christ Himself."

 

[Vico]

Few Catholics are aware that certain traditional customs, known as “centenary” or “immemorial customs” take precedence over changes in liturgical laws contemplated by bishops’ conferences. Canon 26 of the CIC states: “. . . a custom contrary to the current canon law or one which is apart from canon law obtains the force of law only when it has been legitimately observed for thirty continuous and complete years”. The custom of kneeling after Communion has been observed not only for thirty years but from time “immemorial.”

Our Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI wrote in his Spirit of the Liturgy, “…bending the knee before the presence of the living God is something we cannot abandon . . .” He also wrote, “Where it has been lost, kneeling must be rediscovered, so that, in our prayer, we remain in fellowship with the apostles and martyrs . . . indeed in union with Jesus Christ Himself.”

Regarding the immemorial:

Can. 23
Only that custom introduced by a community of the faithful and approved by the legislator according to the norm of the following canons has the force of law.
Can. 24
§1. No custom which is contrary to divine law can obtain the force of law.
§2. A custom contrary to or beyond canon law (praeter ius canonicum) cannot obtain the force of law unless it is reasonable; a custom which is expressly reprobated in the law, however, is not reasonable.
Can. 25
No custom obtains the force of law unless it has been observed with the intention of introducing a law by a community capable at least of receiving law.
Can. 26
Unless the competent legislator has specifically approved it, a custom contrary to the canon law now in force or one beyond a canonical law (praeter legem canonicam) obtains the force of law only if it has been legitimately observed for thirty continuous and complete years. Only a centenary or immemorial custom, however, can prevail against a canonical law which contains a clause prohibiting future customs.
Can. 27
Custom is the best interpreter of laws.
Can. 28
Without prejudice to the prescript of ⇒ can. 5, a contrary custom or law revokes a custom which is contrary to or beyond the law (praeter legem). Unless it makes express mention of them, however, a law does not revoke centenary or immemorial customs, nor does a universal law revoke particular customs.

Q. So when the current liturgical law was put in place in 1969, was kneeling mentioned?

A. “There has been a liturgical variance gaining more popularity in the last couple of years regarding the issue of kneeling or standing during the Canon of the Mass and for the reception of Communion. Succinctly, the Church has not abrogated the practice of kneeling for Communion or during the Canon.”

The Feast of Faith, Approaches to a Theology of the Liturgy, by Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (Ignatius Press, 1986)
ewtn.com/library/LITURGY/STAND.TXT

 

[Tigg]

^^^

I find the legalities depressing. If the bishops were all of one heart and mind, the laity wouldn’t have to discuss things like this!

 

[Waiting]

^^^

I find the legalities depressing. If the bishops were all of one heart and mind, the laity wouldn’t have to discuss things like this!

Amen to that.

 

[WhiteLeather]

I like what this priest has to say on the matter:

“Characteristic of modern theatrical church singing is the constant repetition of a theme, which goes on and on ad nauseam with regular beats which cause the toes to tap on the floor and the heart to thirst for distracting novelty rather than for the love of God. Otherwise there is some soothing melody which lulls to sleep or wafts the mind on its gentle breezes over a garden of delightful reminiscences or sensuous desires.

Very often today, the hymns and other activities within Mass can detract from the real meaning of the Mass as a sacrifice and as the victory of Our Lord on Easter morning

…Which seems to be in agreement with what I said earlier - don’t let your music director’s bad choices take you from the obligation to worship as a community.

One should be careful when using terminology like “constant repetition of a theme” in a negative way. Many prayers and much liturgical music are based on exactly that. So is the Rosary. Constant repetition is not a negative, or the Litany of the Saints would fall under a “bad” category the priest (above) wrote about.

If your pastor won’t do something to improve the music at your parish, he is hurting the parish. If he went to a seminary that trained him well, he’d know that.