MERGED: Standing From The Peace Of Christ Until Everybody Has Received Holy Communion. Why?

[Pfaffenhoffen]

One of the thing i stuggle most with as a practicing catholic is the receiving communion part. And this is not about receiving on the tongue or in the hand. But to kneel or not to kneel.

Are there any other catholics out there that has the same issues? I asked my parish priest about this and this church is a bit special, in the mainroom there are no tabernacle, but it is in the sidechapel where the week masses are celebrated.

The thing is: in the parish church, it is normally no habit to kneel before recieving communion, but i have seen others do it before. And last year, a priest adviced me to kneel no matter what or where you are.

What makes it difficult is that my parish priest say my kneeling could seem demonstrative to others. I attend in another parish where it is more common and sometimes in the monestary church to the dominicans where it is all fine.

I am not really sure what to do and yes, this bothers me quite a bit.I feel disrespectful receiving communion on the tongue standing. The last thing i want to do is to disrespect the Lord.

Respect is interior.
Look at the world: some people, kneel other stand, others sit japanese of indian way, others bowe with the head to the floor.
I wouls say: “Remember Christ” and forget the rest…

 

[JRKH]

Consider this. Your parish priest is placed over you as “shepherd” by Christ Himself. We are to be obedient to our shepherd. So - If the priest is offering you advice and council that is within the norm of church teaching and his role as shepherd and protector of his parish flock, is it not just as disrespectful of the Lord to reject your pastor’s council in this matter?

Understand here that I am not taking a position on the matter one way or another. There are good arguments for both sides of the issue of how to receive.
What I am saying is that your pastor is trying to offer you good council - in Jesus name and rightful authority. Consider prayerfully and carefully what he is saying and what duties of obedience you owe to your pastor in Christ.

Peace
James

 

[svid2]

I receive standing, in the hand. Then I cross myself, go back to my pew, and pray the Anima Christi. Our Lord knows your heart.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

Since the church has said that receiving while standing is OK, than it is. Those who kneel are not inherently more respectful, it is a pious practice that helps them. Others could perhaps benefit from it, and maybe one day soon, we will all return to kneeling, but right now it is not required.

If you decide that kneeling to receive is best for you, than you also need to take the practice of others into consideration. Kneeling in the middle of the communion procession *can *be disruptive or distracting to others. So perhaps, only attend Mass at those places where it is more common. Or receive toward the end, so that you are less likely to call attention to yourself.

Many in our parish (including my family) will genuflect before receiving, but still receive standing up. To me that gives a physical reminder of my respect to Jesus in the sacrament, while also being considerate of the overall procession.

 

[WoundedIcon]

Unfortunately, neither works very well for me… when I kneel I feel rushed and practically almost fall toward the priest on the way up, and taking in the hand is too blase so-to-speak. Not to mention the incongruity of wanting to take the wine but doing it standing. I wish we had freaking rails.

 

[Padraig1972]

I wish we had communion benches in our churches. But i have got some good ideas and some concideration that i need to take into mind now.

I am very very greatful for the responses, it really helps me. Thank you!
If you could have seen me now, i would have bowed politely in gratitude.

 

[odhiambo]

I prefer to kneel but unfortunately I do not often do so.

 

[Canto]

The UK GIRM says 43… The Conference, however, must make sure that such adaptations correspond to the meaning and character of each part of the celebration.

2011 GIRM (Canada) 43 The faithful should stand from the beginning of the Entrance chant… until the end of Mass, except at the places indicated here below… The faithful should sit… and, if appropriate, during the period of sacred silence after Communion… Where it is the practice for the people to remain kneeling after the Sanctus (Holy, Holy, Holy) until the end of the Eucharistic Prayer and before Communion when the Priest says Ecce Agnus Dei (This is the Lamb of God), it is laudable for this practice to be retained.

So before receiving Communion stand or kneel. For the Sacred Silence stand(?) or if appropriate sit.

2011 GIRM (USA) 43 The faithful should stand from the beginning of the Entrance Chant,… , before the Prayer over the Offerings until the end of Mass, except at the places indicated here below… they may sit or kneel during the period of sacred silence after Communion… The faithful kneel after the Agnus Dei (Lamb of God) unless the Diocesan Bishop determines otherwise.

So before receiving Communion kneel (unless your Bishop says stand). For the Sacred Silence kneel or sit.

2007 GIRM (Australia) 43… stand from the beginning of the invitation to the Lord’s Prayer until the completion of the Agnus Dei, when they are to kneel again until the distribution of Holy Communion. During the sacred silence after the distribution of Holy Communion, they may either sit or kneel

So before receiving Communion kneel. For the Sacred Silence kneel or sit.

2011 GIRM (UK/Wales) 43. The faithful should stand from the beginning of the Entrance chant,… until the end of Mass, except…they may sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed… Where it is the practice for the people to remain after the Sanctus until the end of the Eucharistic Prayer and before Communion when the priest says Ecce Agnus Dei (This is the Lamb of God), this practice is laudably retained.

So before receiving Communion stand or kneel. For the Sacred Silence kneel or sit.

So once you’ve received Communion and before the sacred silence after Communion what do you do? Some argue that one stands as for e.g. the Canada GIRM says stand from the beginning to end unless stated otherwise.

The Congregation for Divine Worship was asked:

Dubium: In many places, the faithful are accustomed to kneeling or sitting in personal prayer upon returning to their places after having individually received Holy Communion during Mass. Is it the intention of the Missale Romanum, editio typica tertia, to forbid this practice?

The Response was:

Responsum: Negative, et ad mentem. The mens is that the prescription of the Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani, no. 43, is intended, on the one hand, to ensure within broad limits a certain uniformity of posture within the congregation for the various parts of the celebration of Holy Mass, and on the other, to not regulate posture rigidly in such a way that those who wish to kneel or sit would no longer be free.

So while the GIRM is vague in this regard the CDW says one may sit or kneel. Can a Bishop trump (sorry for the use of this word) a Bishop?

After Communion I like to kneel and say a prayer of thanksgiving from my Missal. I would be most annoyed if the OZ Bishops ever asked us to stand until the last person has received. At St Mary’s Cathedral in Sydney you’d be standing for a while. Did not the CDW says the laity should not be imposed upon?

Fr Z (WDTPRS) once said uniformity does not always equal unity.

 

[centurionguard]

After Communion I like to kneel and say a prayer of thanksgiving from my Missal. I would be most annoyed if the OZ Bishops ever asked us to stand until the last person has received. At St Mary’s Cathedral in Sydney you’d be standing for a while. Did not the CDW says the laity should not be imposed upon?

Fr Z (WDTPRS) once said uniformity does not always equal unity.

I too find that GIRM 43 is vague. As of last Sunday (First Sunday of Advent) "New Translation of the Mass Obedience takes precedence over Adoration after reception of Holy Communion in Canada. All must remain standing until the entire congregation has received the Blessed Sacrament.

It would help if it was explained more in detail if we were told what exactly everybody who just received the Eucharistic Jesus inside them and can’t adore on bended knee to thank Him. Instead we are given less than three minutes to gather humble thoughts of reflection until the closing prayer of the Mass.

Now there are people in the Church who will argue why can’t you adore standing up?
You can if you close your eyes to all the distraction and shuffling of people walking in the aisles returning to there pews. But its much more difficult to do.

IMHO I find the Obedience of standing through virtually the entire Roman Canon until the last three minutes of Mass a chastisement far more than it being obedient uniformity.

And I have to ask what was wrong with (“formerly”) for decades when those who received Holy Communion returning to their pews customarily knelt? Obviously adoration has become least important in the Church in Canada.

Stands to reason why Benediction of the Blessed Sacrament is only seen once a year (Holy Thursday) in my Parish and in many parishes in my Archdiocese. True faith of the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist can’t be taught. It is only God that gives grace to the humble to truly believe.

 

[MissRose73]

At the churches I attend, we kneel after the ending of the Agnus Dei till we go up for Communion. After I receive, I go back to my pew, and kneel until Communion is finished & the priest does the Post Communion prayer etc then we stand for the concluding rites. My parents church has no kneelers, so people simply sit after returning from Communion instead of kneeling.

 

[Vico]

…
So while the GIRM is vague in this regard the CDW says one may sit or kneel. Can a Bishop trump (sorry for the use of this word) a Bishop?..

Yes they can be “trumped”, the liturgical norms must are approved by The Holy See. What do they say:

"Saving the best intentions of those who commit them, after forty years of “liturgical disobedience” it does not in fact build better Christian communities, but on the contrary it puts in danger the solidity of their faith and of their belonging to the unity of the Catholic Church. "

Observance of Liturgical Norms and “Ars Celebrandi” (July 29, 2010):
vatican.va/news_services/liturgy/details/ns_lit_doc_20100729_osservanza_en.html

 

[Canto]

So while the GIRM is vague in this regard the CDW says one may sit or kneel. Can a Bishop trump (sorry for the use of this word) a Bishop?

Sorry. Should have said can a Bishop trump the CDW?

 

[Aramis]

Sorry. Should have said can a Bishop trump the CDW?

The CDW answered for the generic GIRM (which they essentially as a body wrote); the adapted ones approved by the CDW are adapted by the CCB’s of the various nations and approved by the CDW on behalf of the Pope.

The GIRM as adapted and approved is the document which is the regulation for that nation… the Conference is the Authority to make such changes (by unanimous vote), and it’s already been reviewed by the CDW… so, the bishop opting to enforce it is acting as supreme shepherd of his diocese and within his competence.

Note that the unadapted GIRM specifically allows specifying the postures.

The ONLY posture where the bishop may not regulate is for the reception of communion itself, where the kneeling posture is specifically allowed even where not normative. And that because the CDW overruled the local bishops explicitly on it.

The rest of the communion rite is subject to the bishop and the conference.

 

[Canto]

The CDW answered for the generic GIRM (which they essentially as a body wrote); the adapted ones approved by the CDW are adapted by the CCB’s of the various nations and approved by the CDW on behalf of the Pope.

The GIRM as adapted and approved is the document which is the regulation for that nation… the Conference is the Authority to make such changes (by unanimous vote), and it’s already been reviewed by the CDW… so, the bishop opting to enforce it is acting as supreme shepherd of his diocese and within his competence.

Note that the unadapted GIRM specifically allows specifying the postures.

The ONLY posture where the bishop may not regulate is for the reception of communion itself, where the kneeling posture is specifically allowed even where not normative. And that because the CDW overruled the local bishops explicitly on it.

The rest of the communion rite is subject to the bishop and the conference.

The CDW says it is not the intent of the Missal (typical edition) “to regulate posture rigidly in such a way that those who wish to kneel or sit would no longer be free.” So why would they then, as some argue, allow a Bishop or conference to regulate posture rigidly in such a way that those who wish to kneel/sit are no longer free? It seems contradictory and changes the intent.

Someone once said on these forums “Cardinal George asked whether the GIRM no longer allowed people to sit or kneel. The response was no.”

The Canadian GRIM for example does not explicitly call for people to stand and even says that “Where it is the practice for the people to remain kneeling… and before Communion when the Priest says Ecce Agnus Dei (This is the Lamb of God), it is laudable for this practice to be retained.”

 

[Vico]

Normative is not rigid, rather the faithful should strive to show unity as a community. There will likely be some that will choose another traditional expression, which is acceptable. Look at all the possible variations:

GIRM
390. It is for the Conferences of Bishops to formulate the adaptations indicated in this General Instruction and in the Order of Mass and, once their decisions have been accorded the recognitio of the Apostolic See, to introduce them into the Missal itself. They are such as these:
• the gestures and bodily posture of the faithful (cf. no. 43);
• the gestures of veneration toward the altar and the Book of the Gospels (cf. no. 273);
• the texts of the chants at the Entrance, at the Presentation of the Gifts, and at Communion (cf. nos. 48, 74, 87);
• the readings from Sacred Scripture to be used in special circumstances (cf. no. 362);
• the form of the gesture of peace (cf. no. 82);
• the manner of receiving Holy Communion (cf. nos. 160, 283);
• the materials for the altar and sacred furnishings, especially the sacred vessels, and also the materials, form, and color of the liturgical vestments (cf. nos. 301, 326, 329, 339, 342-346).
It shall be permissible for Directories or pastoral Instructions that the Conferences of Bishops judge useful to be included, with the prior recognitio of the Apostolic See, in the Roman Missal at an appropriate place

 

[WhiteLeather]

After receiving Holy Communion, the faithful are to be left alone. They can kneel, sit, stand, lay down or adopt any posture that is of their choosing. This is their time with Christ. This was clearly stated by Cardinal Arinze.

Cardinal Arinze may want to revisit the GIRM, as it was already quoted above. To expand, WE receive Communion at Mass. “I” don’t receive Communion, WE receive. So while the procession is in progress, we stand and sing the communal song, a prayer. The Church instructs that WE join in this communal thanksgiving BEFORE we engage in our private thanksgiving. We are to show our UNITY of spirit by the UNITY of our voices.

Why do so many Catholics seem to abhor this communal time of prayer at the most important part of the Mass?

Why should private prayer be a priority when one is in the midst of a crowd?

And while I’m on the proverbial soapbox, there is no such thing in the Missal as a Communion Meditation song. IF there is singing after Communion, it’s a song of praise to be sung by the assembly. Read the GIRM. If the choir/cantor/soloist feels a need to perform, there are times and places to do so, but not to hijack the Mass for their own need for concertizing.

 

[Phemie]

Cardinal Arinze may want to revisit the GIRM, as it was already quoted above. To expand, WE receive Communion at Mass. “I” don’t receive Communion, WE receive. So while the procession is in progress, we stand and sing the communal song, a prayer. The Church instructs that WE join in this communal thanksgiving BEFORE we engage in our private thanksgiving. We are to show our UNITY of spirit by the UNITY of our voices.

Why do so many Catholics seem to abhor this communal time of prayer at the most important part of the Mass?

Why should private prayer be a priority when one is in the midst of a crowd?

And while I’m on the proverbial soapbox, there is no such thing in the Missal as a Communion Meditation song. IF there is singing after Communion, it’s a song of praise to be sung by the assembly. Read the GIRM. If the choir/cantor/soloist feels a need to perform, there are times and places to do so, but not to hijack the Mass for their own need for concertizing.

When the GIRM was first promulgated the first question that went to Rome was 'does GIRM 43 mean that the faithful who have been used to kneeling upon returning from Communion can no longer do so?
The reply was “No, the posture is not regulated so rigidly that they can’t sit or kneel if they wish.”

So while it’s true that, per GIRM 43, the posture from Communion until the period of silent prayer is standing, people are still free to kneel or sit according to the Congregation for Divine Worship.

 

[garvan]

I am under obedience of the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops on this legislated matter. So I will obey. It doesn’t mean I have to like it. And somehow I don’t think it fits in with what Cardinal Arinze says in what he speaks about Postures in the Liturgy.
Regardless though I will be obedient to the church on this matter.

Just a personal opinion, It would seem the USCCB has taken a better approach as usual.
We were told today we stand in solidarity for the Risen Christ.
Nothing was said about Jesus humbled on the Altar for our sake.

 

[garvan]

Clergy take a vow of obedience. Can you give me a reference in the Code of Canon Law where it says that the laity are under obedience to a bishop?

 

[Vico]

Clergy take a vow of obedience. Can you give me a reference in the Code of Canon Law where it says that the laity are under obedience to a bishop?

CIC

Can. 212 §1. Conscious of their own responsibility, the Christian faithful are bound to follow with Christian obedience those things which the sacred pastors, inasmuch as they represent Christ, declare as teachers of the faith or establish as rulers of the Church.
§2. The Christian faithful are free to make known to the pastors of the Church their needs, especially spiritual ones, and their desires.
§3. According to the knowledge, competence, and prestige which they possess, they have the right and even at times the duty to manifest to the sacred pastors their opinion on matters which pertain to the good of the Church and to make their opinion known to the rest of the Christian faithful, without prejudice to the integrity of faith and morals, with reverence toward their pastors, and attentive to common advantage and the dignity of persons.

Can. 750 §1. A person must believe with divine and Catholic faith all those things contained in the word of God, written or handed on, that is, in the one deposit of faith entrusted to the Church, and at the same time proposed as divinely revealed either by the solemn magisterium of the Church or by its ordinary and universal magisterium which is manifested by the common adherence of the Christian faithful under the leadership of the sacred magisterium; therefore all are bound to avoid any doctrines whatsoever contrary to them.
§2. Each and every thing which is proposed definitively by the magisterium of the Church concerning the doctrine of faith and morals, that is, each and every thing which is required to safeguard reverently and to expound faithfully the same deposit of faith, is also to be firm-ly embraced and retained; therefore, one who rejects those propositions which are to be held definitively is opposed to the doctrine of the Catholic Church.

Can. 751 Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.

Can. 752 Although not an assent of faith, a religious submission of the intellect and will must be given to a doctrine which the Supreme Pontiff or the college of bishops declares concerning faith or morals when they exercise the authentic magisterium, even if they do not intend to proclaim it by definitive act; therefore, the Christian faithful are to take care to avoid those things which do not agree with it.

Can. 753 Although the bishops who are in communion with the head and members of the college, whether individually or joined together in conferences of bishops or in particular councils, do not possess infallibility in teaching, they are authentic teachers and instructors of the faith for the Christian faithful entrusted to their care; the Christian faithful are bound to adhere with religious submission of mind to the authentic magisterium of their bishops.

Can. 754 All the Christian faithful are obliged to observe the constitutions and decrees which the legitimate authority of the Church issues in order to propose doctrine and to proscribe erroneous opinions, particularly those which the Roman Pontiff or the college of bishops puts forth.