MERGED: Standing From The Peace Of Christ Until Everybody Has Received Holy Communion. Why?

[ConstantineTG]

Just want to say I loved all the changes in the New Reformed Liturgy in the New Roman Missal at Sunday’s Mass this morning (First Sunday of Advent).

We Kneeled for the Consecration as usual. Yet from the exchange of the Peace of Christ until all 800 plus of the congregation had finished receiving the Blessed Sacrament we were instructed to stand in unison solidarity. No explanation was given except that has been stated. People in the Congregation who received the Blessed Sacrament returning to their pews were not allowed to kneel and pray in adoration until all had received.

Personally; I have no problem standing in solidarity. However; what symbolic profound sense of liturgical spirituality is embraced by not letting communicants of the Blessed Sacrament from kneeling in adoration and thanks to Jesus after they have received and returned to their pews?

Instead we are told to stand the entire time while everybody has received. Only after Everybody has received Holy Communion are we allowed to reflect in a more humble prone posture.

Is this the same for American Catholics?

Interesting. Is this from the CCCB or is it from your diocese? My curiosity might direct me to attend an RC Mass this Saturday

 

[John_Lilburne]

From the 2002 General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM), n. 43:

“… and, as circumstances allow, they may sit or kneel while the period of sacred silence after Communion is observed.”

When does the “period of sacred silence after Communion” begin? For many people the practice or understanding has been “when I have received Communion and returned to my seat.”

But this is clearly not the intention of the GIRM. It is not silence when the priest is saying “The Body of Christ” and people are responding “Amen”. Then intention is to have singing during the Communion Procession, hardly a time of silence. From the GIRM:

“86. While the priest is receiving the Sacrament, the Communion chant is begun. Its purpose is to express the communicants’ union in spirit by means of the unity of their voices, to show joy of heart, and to highlight more clearly the “communitarian” nature of the procession to receive Communion. The singing is continued for as long as the Sacrament is being administered to the faithful.”

The Ceremonial of Bishops has:

“166 When the bishop returns to the chair after the communion, he puts on the skullcap and, if need be, washes his hands. All are seated and a period of prayerful silence may follow, or a song of praise or a psalm may be sung.”

(Ceremonial of Bishops, Liturgical Press, 1989, ISBN 0-8146-1818-9, page 60.)

When the bishop sits, everyone else sits. So this holds with the principle in the GIRM, n. 42:

“A common posture, to be observed by all participants, is a sign of the unity of the members of the Christian community gathered for the Sacred Liturgy: it both expresses and fosters the intention and spiritual attitude of the participants.”

So I think the Canadian bishops are to be commended for recognising that individuals kneeling once they have received is not the intention of the GIRM. It also seems to me a good time to make this correction, when people are making lots of other changes.

 

[centurionguard]

Interesting. Is this from the CCCB or is it from your diocese? My curiosity might direct me to attend an RC Mass this Saturday

Well all I can say if I had to go to Mass strictly by curiosity alone I probably never make it there.
What brings you there?

 

[Warrenton]

we were instructed to stand in unison solidarity.

How does this differ from just standing?

Thankfully no, at least in Arlington Virginia diocese.

[/QUOTE]

 

[centurionguard]

centurionguard;8623903:

we were instructed to stand in unison solidarity.

How does this differ from just standing?

How does if differ from standing? If you read the entire thread you get the drift of my confusion.

Prior to the First Sunday of Advent everybody returning to their pew after receiving Holy Communion knelt in adoration reflecting and meditating interiorly on WHOM they just received within their Body and Soul. Now nobody Can’t kneel until everybody in the entire church has received Holy Communion. All have to remain standing the entire time.

To me its just another instance where the faithful have to suffer for their faith.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Well all I can say if I had to go to Mass strictly by curiosity alone I probably never make it there.
What brings you there?

I’m just curious about the changes. Plus I know that one of my favorite priests, the Chaldean priest, is substituting at my former RC parish.

I haven’t attended a Latin Rite Mass since September and been attending exclusively at my UGCC parish. Given the changes you noted here, I’m curious what my local RC diocese has done. I know the RC Bishop here is fairly traditional and is supportive of traditional RC practices. If the “no kneeling” at the Agnus Dei is Canada-wide, it will be interesting to see if he went along with the CCCB.

 

[centurionguard]

I’m just curious about the changes. Plus I know that one of my favorite priests, the Chaldean priest, is substituting at my former RC parish.

I haven’t attended a Latin Rite Mass since September and been attending exclusively at my UGCC parish. Given the changes you noted here, I’m curious what my local RC diocese has done. I know the RC Bishop here is fairly traditional and is supportive of traditional RC practices. If the “no kneeling” at the Agnus Dei is Canada-wide, it will be interesting to see if he went along with the CCCB.

Its not surprising that in many archdioceses or dioceses in Canada where you hear of one being more conservative and another being more liberal. Conversely I hear the same thing from time to time about American dioceses on this site as with other books on liturgy that I have read… However; am not sure if the present liturgical posture was actually put into effect was from the CCCB. But I have said in this thread that I will remain obedient to my parish priest regardless of my personal views.

I have heard a lot of flack from various parishioners since yesterday Mass. But as I have heard someone else say give this New Mass translation time to grow on everybody.
Even our parish priest kindly asked for everyone to bear with him. He was up all throughout Friday and Saturday night studying. Except for this part on posture I really like this New Translation. Its certainly more like I remember it as a kid and after having studied older liturgies of the Mass. I’m doing my best to stay positive.

 

[Phemie]

Please note the OP is in Canada, not the US.

In Canada, the Bishops have decided that the faithful will stand until all receive Communion. This was discussed here ad nauseum just a week or so ago.

It has nothing to do with the new translation. It is a separate legislation on the part of the Candian Bishops, that takes effect at the same time as the translation.

And, yes, the Bishops have the authority to do so.

The CCCB has actually just adopted the universal GIRM as far as posture goes: the only place where we are mandated to kneel is at the Consecration. It was in response to a question on that article back in 2003 that Cardinal Arinze made it clear that the Bishops have no authority to order standing after people return from Communion and that they can sit, stand or kneel, as they wish.

 

[Phemie]

So I think the Canadian bishops are to be commended for recognising that individuals kneeling once they have received is not the intention of the GIRM. It also seems to me a good time to make this correction, when people are making lots of other changes.

“Numerous inquiries” received by the BCL led Cardinal Francis George, chairman of the BCL, to submit a dubium (doubt, question) to the Holy See’s Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments (CDW) on May 26, 2003:

    Dubium: In many places, the     faithful are accustomed to kneeling or sitting in personal prayer     upon returning to their places after having individually received     Holy Communion during Mass. **Is it the intention of the Missale     Romanum, editio typica tertia, to forbid this practice?**

Cardinal Francis Arinze, Prefect of the CDW, responded to the question on June 5, 2003 (Prot. N. 855/03/L):

    Responsum: **Negative**, et ad     mensum [No, for this reason]. The mens [reasoning]     is that the prescription of the Institutio Generalis Missalis     Romani, no. 43, is intended, on the one hand, to ensure within     broad limits a certain uniformity of posture within the congregation     for the various parts of the celebration of Holy Mass, and on     the other, to not regulate posture rigidly in such a way that     those who wish to kneel or sit would no longer be free.

 

[mkamoski1]

What country are you in?

USA

 

[Marybeloved]

I’m not Canadian or American. We speak English, but the translations have not been implemented here. I felt a physical reaction reading through this thread. Surely, kneeling before God is better than standing? And picking solidarity as the thing to emphasize more than the real presence in your mouth and stomach seems so misplaced, imo.

Perhaps it’ll grow? maybe. I would hope that Canadian Catholics write to their bishops to let them know what a terrible experience it is to them to stand on their feet while God is in their bodies rather than kneel and speak to him before the real presence ends. It feels/seems like such a violation of the faithful’s piety and might even undermine the reality of the real presence, imo.

Peace.

 

[centurionguard]

I’m not Canadian or American. We speak English, but the translations have not been implemented here. I felt a physical reaction reading through this thread. Surely, kneeling before God is better than standing? And picking solidarity as the thing to emphasize more than the real presence in your mouth and stomach seems so misplaced, imo.

Perhaps it’ll grow? maybe. I would hope that Canadian Catholics write to their bishops to let them know what a terrible experience it is to them to stand on their feet while God is in their bodies rather than kneel and speak to him before the real presence ends. It feels/seems like such a violation of the faithful piety and might even undermine the reality of the real presence, imo.

Peace.

The argument in Posture has been an ongoing frustration more so for Catholics in Canada than I believe it has been in the United States. And I know that many have approached Bishops.
Every Bishop seems to be different depending on the diocese.

 

[roadsend]

Unfortunately, in the Portland Archdiocese, they decided to have us stand after the great Amen years ago. I have never understood why that option to change even came about, since the host is still on the altar. One parish still kneels after the Agnus Dei, but they are run by the Dominicans and allowed to do that if their superior decrees it, even if the rest of the diocese stands per the bishop’s instructions.

Just a week or so before that directive was issued several years ago, I talked about this subject with the head honcho at the diocesan office of worship. The nun running that office said that the Archbishop would not be issuing any such such directive.
I have got to wonder, who is running the show in our diocese.

That said, the earlier quote from Cardinal Arinze makes it pretty clear that the diocesan bishop or his minions are exceeding their authority in this matter with their demands for rigid uniformity of posture.
I choose to follow Rome rather than my bishop.

BTW, there are folks other than at Holy Rosary that kneel after the Agnus Dei.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Its not surprising that in many archdioceses or dioceses in Canada where you hear of one being more conservative and another being more liberal. Conversely I hear the same thing from time to time about American dioceses on this site as with other books on liturgy that I have read… However; am not sure if the present liturgical posture was actually put into effect was from the CCCB. But I have said in this thread that I will remain obedient to my parish priest regardless of my personal views.

I have heard a lot of flack from various parishioners since yesterday Mass. But as I have heard someone else say give this New Mass translation time to grow on everybody.
Even our parish priest kindly asked for everyone to bear with him. He was up all throughout Friday and Saturday night studying. Except for this part on posture I really like this New Translation. Its certainly more like I remember it as a kid and after having studied older liturgies of the Mass. I’m doing my best to stay positive.

Hhhhmmm… me thinks legalism is rearing its ugly head again. I mean in the Ukrainian Church some people kneel, some don’t (we shouldn’t kneel on Sundays in the Byzantine Rite) but people don’t get worked up by it. We use different books with slightly different translations and we use different music sets, sometimes depends on who is cantoring. And we don’t get worked up by it.

 

[Tigg]

I would hope that Canadian Catholics write to their bishops to let them know what a terrible experience it is to them to stand on their feet while God is in their bodies rather than kneel and speak to him before the real presence ends. **It feels/seems like such a violation of the faithful’s piety and might even undermine the reality of the real presence, imo.**Peace.

I agree…and some day every knee shall bend and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord!

 

[TimothyH]

Hhhhmmm… me thinks legalism is rearing its ugly head again. I mean in the Ukrainian Church some people kneel, some don’t (we shouldn’t kneel on Sundays in the Byzantine Rite) but people don’t get worked up by it. We use different books with slightly different translations and we use different music sets, sometimes depends on who is cantoring. And we don’t get worked up by it.

Do you mean to tell us that you actually let the holy Spirit into your Church?

неможливий, нездійсненний!!!

-Tim-

 

[Aramis]

Remember… the second ecumenical council directed that prayers on sunday should be offered standing, not kneeling.

 

[TimothyH]

I’m not Canadian or American. We speak English, but the translations have not been implemented here. I felt a physical reaction reading through this thread. Surely, kneeling before God is better than standing? And picking solidarity as the thing to emphasize more than the real presence in your mouth and stomach seems so misplaced, imo.

Perhaps it’ll grow? maybe. I would hope that Canadian Catholics write to their bishops to let them know what a terrible experience it is to them to stand on their feet while God is in their bodies rather than kneel and speak to him before the real presence ends. It feels/seems like such a violation of the faithful’s piety and might even undermine the reality of the real presence, imo.

Peace.

Marybeloved, Jesus is present in the Eucharist no matter how you feel. Nothing could undermine his real presence in the Eucharist. I know you know these things.

Please consider that the reason you might be having such a strong reaction to what others do is because you are paying attention to what others do. One who does not concern themselves with others cannot be offended by others. Yes, Christ’s presence is real in the Eucharist, and when we eat his flesh and drink his blood, he is present in our mouth and stomach. Try to remember as well, Christ’s promise to us in John’s Gospel.

If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. (John 14:23)

God has promised to make a home inside of you. No one can ever take this away from you. You can pray to the Holy Spirit who dwells right inside of your body, any time, any place, standing or sitting, driving the car or while you are in the dentists chair. You have only to turn inward, and God is there, inside of you.

This is no less real than the Eucharist. It is a truth revealed to us by Jesus. The only one who can take that away from you is you yourself.

-Tim-

 

[Tigg]

Marybeloved, Jesus is present in the Eucharist no matter how you feel. Nothing could undermine his real presence in the Eucharist. I know you know these things.

Please consider that the reason you might be having such a strong reaction to what others do is because you are paying attention to what others do. One who does not concern themselves with others cannot be offended by others. Yes, Christ’s presence is real in the Eucharist, and when we eat his flesh and drink his blood, he is present in our mouth and stomach. Try to remember as well, Christ’s promise to us in John’s Gospel.

If a man loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him. (John 14:23)

God has promised to make a home inside of you. No one can ever take this away from you. You can pray to the Holy Spirit who dwells right inside of your body, any time, any place, standing or sitting, driving the car or while you are in the dentists chair. You have only to turn inward, and God is there, inside of you.

This is no less real than the Eucharist. It is a truth revealed to us by Jesus. The only one who can take that away from you is you yourself.

-Tim-

Speaking just for myself, it would in no way be a question of watching what others are doing, (and thankfully, our bishop has told us to kneel,) but had it been otherwise, it would have caused an **interior **conflict within my spirit - so strong is my inclination to kneel in Adoration of the Lord. In his letter to us, our bishop stressed how important postures are. Had we been told to stand, I would have done it out of obedience, however.

 

[Warrenton]

To me its just another instance where the faithful have to suffer for their faith.

I’m with you. I was just wondered why the priest said “stand in solidarity” instead of just “stand.”

Whenever people add words to a plain idea, there is usually a reason.