Messianic Jew

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there are limits to pluralism, beyond which a group is schismatic to the point where it is no longer considered Jewish. For example, Messianic Judaism and belief in Buddah are outside of the Jewish sphere
 
LutheranDK said:
I dare you to find A SINGLE confessed Christian who participated in the Holocaust!
Hans Frank came to faith AFTER the war had ended, awaiting execution.

So - give me one example of a Christian who participated in the Holocaust!
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Hitler said he was Catholic. It is what it is.
LutheranDK said:
I know that Messianic Jews are considered as non-Jews. And I can…sort of relate to the emotional reaction, although, like any mob-mentality, I do not condone it. But when we are talking facts here, isn’t your own admitting them as still halachic Jews logically the same as rejecting that emotion-based view?

Is practise of rabbinic Judaism the only way to be regarded as Jewish (having lived in Jerusalem for 6 months, I know that most Israelis are just as secular as people in Western Europe)?
And what about Jews who become buddhist, New-Age, etc?
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Well you can go to the cemetery and there are halachic Jews buried there. But they are still dead to all other Jews. Such are Messianic Jews. Jesus is the one no-no in Judaism and Jewry, you can pretty much believe or be anything else, even atheist, and still be considered a decent Jew. But not a follower of Jesus.
LutheranDK said:
If they are not ostracized in the same manner as Messianic Jews, then why is that not hypocrasi (typo…)?
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It is hypocrisy. What else are you expecting from antichrist.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
LDS don’t believe the Bible anyway do they.
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Some do. Some don’t.

Same with Catholics, and apparently Jews too (at least the ones that call themselves Messianic say they do).

Can you tell me why people here feel the need to demonize and scapegoat people of other faiths? This had the potential for being a really interesting conversation. Now we’re calling Jews the Anti-Christ all of a sudden. Why is that?
 
LaMar said:
Some do. Some don’t.

Same with Catholics, and apparently Jews too (at least the ones that call themselves Messianic say they do).

Can you tell me why people here feel the need to demonize and scapegoat people of other faiths? This had the potential for being a really interesting conversation. Now we’re calling Jews the Anti-Christ all of a sudden. Why is that?
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Awww. 😦

I’m not ashamed of what the Bible says, unlike a lot of lukewarm Christians are. It says what it says.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Hitler said he was Catholic. It is what it is.

Well you can go to the cemetery and there are halachic Jews buried there. But they are still dead to all other Jews. Such are Messianic Jews. Jesus is the one no-no in Judaism and Jewry, you can pretty much believe or be anything else, even atheist, and still be considered a decent Jew. But not a follower of Jesus.

It is hypocrisy. What else are you expecting from antichrist.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
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But are not Jews dead without the Messiah for they do profess original sin?

“in” Adam. The writer of Hebrews says something interesting in referring to when Abraham and Melchizedek met in Genesis 14: “Levi himself, who receives tithes, paid tithes through Abraham. For he was still in the loins of his ancestor [Abraham] when Melchizedek met him [Abraham]” (Heb. 7:9–10).

Levi wasn’t born for another seventy years or so after this incident of Abraham paying a tithe to Melchizedek, yet the Bible says that Levi paid tithes to Melchizedek. How is that possible? Because Levi was in Abraham—in his loins, according to the Bible.

This is the same concept we are talking about with original sin and being in Adam and with salvation and being in Christ.

We are born with a fallen nature, a nature that is separated from God as a result of Adam’s sin
 
Valke2 said:
There are Messianic Jewish organizations that are really nothing more than Christian oraganizations trying to trick Jews who are not very religious or ignorant of their own religion into accepting Jesus. Jews for Jesus is the largest of these (I believe) and is clearly a christian missionary group. It is for this reason, I think, that many Jews react so strongly to those who call themselves Messianic Jews.

I keep hearing stories on the internet about Jews who have become Messianic Jews, but all the ones that I’ve actually met were never Jewish to begin with.

There is also a group of Hebrew Catholics, which the Church recognizes and which are quite different from Messianic Jews.
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Your bio says you are in NY. There are many. many Messianic Jews in NY. Former Jews who believe Yashua is Messiah.
There is a tension between what Jews call missionaries and Jews wo are turned off by Cristianity who are anti-missionaries. There are many many debates between the two groups. Messianic Jews take seriously te call to make disciples of all nations, they have targeted Jews everywere using their scholarship in Hebrew and Tanauk to witness to Jews.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
Awww. 😦

I’m not ashamed of what the Bible says, unlike a lot of lukewarm Christians are. It says what it says.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
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Well, I have my tradition. Jews have theirs. You have yours. If there is a God, I think he cares a lot less about the outward trappings than about how we treat one another as human beings. If there isn’t a God, then outward trappings are meaningless anyway, because all we have is one another.

Earlier you (or someone) talked about Atheist Jews. I know at least one family of Atheist Catholics, so it happens in your tradition too, whether or not anyone wants to believe it. Lots of people in contemporary America are modern, free thinking folks, who can embrace reality while still finding beauty and value in the traditions of their parents. By the standards of the true believers, I’m an Atheist too, so now you can say you know an Atheist Mormon. We’re all lukewarm in one way or another.

In that regard, I don’t think “Messianic Jew” is quite as strange as it first seemed, though I’m still curious as to why someone would keep kosher if they didn’t have to…it’s pretty difficult. Anyone want to get back on topic and speculate about this?
 
c659smith said:
But are not Jews dead without the Messiah for they do profess original sin?
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Sure, I think anyone is dead without Jesus. That’s just how they feel about Messianic Jews, they tell me all the time.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
In a lofty sense they are still halachly Jews no matter what.

In a practical sense they are apostates and stripped of Jewishness and considered as non-Jews. They aren’t counted for minyans or anything like that. No right of return to the State of Israel. Trash, to many other Jews.

Accepting Jesus is accepting the leader of Christians who tormented Jews for centuries and sent them to the ovens, that’s mostly why they are considered traitors.
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This is the feeling of many Jews and makes them see Yeshua as messiah nearly impossible. As God blinded pharioh He has blinded te Jews until the days of the gentiles is complete. We are at that time now and are seeing more and more Jews come to Messiah.
 
c659smith said:
But is there a Christian Faith (religion) that observes more of the Jewish Scripture, traditions, and teachings than that of Catholism.

Most Jews I have seen enter a Catholic Church are shocked by the similarities more than the differences. Scripture, traditions, and teachings . Even the sounds and smells.
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Messianic Jews boserve their Jewish faith and they believe that Yeshua is Messiah.
 
LaMar said:
Well, I have my tradition. Jews have theirs. You have yours. If there is a God, I think he cares a lot less about the outward trappings than about how we treat one another as human beings. If there isn’t a God, then outward trappings are meaningless anyway, because all we have is one another.
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Well I believe the Bible, if you don’t then you don’t.
LaMar said:
Earlier you (or someone) talked about Atheist Jews. I know at least one family of Atheist Catholics, so it happens in your tradition too, whether or not anyone wants to believe it.
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That’s a dumb idea, who would want to be a Catholic with no God?
LaMar said:
By the standards of the true believers, I’m an Atheist too, so now you can say you know an Atheist Mormon. We’re all lukewarm in one way or another.
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Since a lot of Mormons believe all men can be gods I’ve always thought it to be a form of atheism anyway. No surprise.
LaMar said:
In that regard, I don’t think “Messianic Jew” is quite as strange as it first seemed, though I’m still curious as to why someone would keep kosher if they didn’t have to…it’s pretty difficult. Anyone want to get back on topic and speculate about this?
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There is no such thing as a Jew who doesn’t observe Torah, that’s what real Jews do and why they are different from Gentiles.

Matthew 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Whereas Christian Gentiles have only these few rules of Torah:

Acts 15:19-20 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
 
Hisalone said:
This is the feeling of many Jews and makes them see Yeshua as messiah nearly impossible. As God blinded pharioh He has blinded te Jews until the days of the gentiles is complete. We are at that time now and are seeing more and more Jews come to Messiah.
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Yeah they are, good thing.
 
FaithofAbraham said:
That’s a dumb idea, who would want to be a Catholic with no God?
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Any intelligent and grounded person, who likes the traditions of Catholicism, and is knowledgeable enough to reconcile these traditions with the laws of nature, for the betterment of himself and his family.

Hope this helps.

LaMar
 
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