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Hisalone
Guest
Oh brother.
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FaithofAbraham
Guest
I just call that being a fake and phony. Any atheist should be driven out of Christianity just as they should from Judaism.
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c659smith
Guest
But the question to ask for the majority of Jews how do they get to heaven now?
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FaithofAbraham
Guest
Hopefully they can come to believe in Purgatory, if they are otherwise ok people. I wouldn’t like to count on that completely though.
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c659smith
Guest
No I would not dispell such laws but it still stands to reason that these Laws good, riight and just at the time had their reason and place.
That these Laws were for God given to a prophet for God’s reasons for men to offer up to Him by a man.
These still were not laws given by God Himself. For it is God who wrote on the tablets.
These laws probably immensely helped the Jewish health at the time and seperated the Jewish people the chosen at the time from the gentiles.
But we know Abraham is with God and that being said Abraham was not circumcised.
The animal sacrafices was for man’s benefit not God’s.
We do not offer them today and most Jews today would call them unnecessary and barbaric today if they were to commence today.
The point is that the Bible weither Old or New is a living bible and subject to change by God’s will.
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c659smith
Guest
Being the time has passed since the return as stated by the Prophets of the return of the Messiah then how does the everyday Jew get to heaven?
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Daniel_Marsh
Guest
They are simply dispensationalists, rapture, pre-millinial pretending to be Jewish Christians. Nothing more. Their understanding of Judaism comes from evangelistic books addresssed to Jewish people. And, they lack depth.
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Dymphna2008
Guest
The people I’ve met are definitely Jewish, in genealogical terms and at one time, terms of faith and practise. I didn’t tell you that about a 1/4 of the congregation was made up of Gentiles (Goyim), having found a praxis that they could deal with spiritually, morally, and socially. But it was still relatively small; six or seven families at most, maybe thirty people all told. But they did explain that the prayers they said were liturgically valid for the Synagogue, and could be easily placed within a"Christian" context, since they substitute Adonai (“Lord”) for the actual names of God.
They weren’t too pleased to hear that I was a practicing Catholic. The approach they took after that was one I’ve seen at many churches, be kind, polite, interested, but don’t give anything away when it comes to admitting that Christians are just as much Catholic as they are Baptist, say. They invited me back, of course, I invited them to Mass. They are very fixed on eschatology and prophecy, searching and interpreting the scripture along the lines of "We are the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation. Their fundamentalism was obvious when I asked what they thought of Adam and Eve, which they regard as literal. I know that not even Orthodox Jews go that far, ie. the world is actually only 6,000 - 9,000 years old, and it was obvious what they took as a basic platform for their underpinning.
But, yes, they believe, since they aren’t listened to, that they are rejected by those families who still live and practice as Jews under the Law of Moses; which they make the most of. Orthodox in practice, though practise of liturgy has virtually become superfluous. Jewish practise by definition is based in liturgy and set forms of worship, like Catholicism; the community comes together as one and has a specific focus. But like evangelicals, the Messianic Jews tend to pick and choose what they want in their services, and not every congregation is as interchangeable as the ability of Catholics to find the same service in Halifax or Bangkok.
But in the end, Messianic Jews have more in common with evangelical Christians than they do with their Jewish spiritual roots. They are searching for something they find lacking in the Jewish faith after they’ve been told that Jesus is the saviour. Unfortunately, they are being proselytized by fundamentalists, not given a true education by Catholicism. My personal way of doing things is to tell them to ask the questions, but of a rabbi. I don’t see Judaism as a spiritual dead end, especially when someone has been raised in it. Catholics are not proselytizers, they don’t go out of their way to deny the spirituality of others simply to drag them into the Church. Most of the people you will see at the Vigil tomorrow night have already been asking the pertinent questions, whether from a Jewish, a Baptist, a non-Christian background. Remember, they see Christ in the Eucharist, as you and I do, and haven’t felt the need to go off and preach their own little church into existence. I’ve seen too much of that over the years. As much as they want to hear the Holy Spirit speaking, it is the simple voice of pride and human desire to speak in God’s place.
:juggle:
They weren’t too pleased to hear that I was a practicing Catholic. The approach they took after that was one I’ve seen at many churches, be kind, polite, interested, but don’t give anything away when it comes to admitting that Christians are just as much Catholic as they are Baptist, say. They invited me back, of course, I invited them to Mass. They are very fixed on eschatology and prophecy, searching and interpreting the scripture along the lines of "We are the 144,000 mentioned in Revelation. Their fundamentalism was obvious when I asked what they thought of Adam and Eve, which they regard as literal. I know that not even Orthodox Jews go that far, ie. the world is actually only 6,000 - 9,000 years old, and it was obvious what they took as a basic platform for their underpinning.
But, yes, they believe, since they aren’t listened to, that they are rejected by those families who still live and practice as Jews under the Law of Moses; which they make the most of. Orthodox in practice, though practise of liturgy has virtually become superfluous. Jewish practise by definition is based in liturgy and set forms of worship, like Catholicism; the community comes together as one and has a specific focus. But like evangelicals, the Messianic Jews tend to pick and choose what they want in their services, and not every congregation is as interchangeable as the ability of Catholics to find the same service in Halifax or Bangkok.
But in the end, Messianic Jews have more in common with evangelical Christians than they do with their Jewish spiritual roots. They are searching for something they find lacking in the Jewish faith after they’ve been told that Jesus is the saviour. Unfortunately, they are being proselytized by fundamentalists, not given a true education by Catholicism. My personal way of doing things is to tell them to ask the questions, but of a rabbi. I don’t see Judaism as a spiritual dead end, especially when someone has been raised in it. Catholics are not proselytizers, they don’t go out of their way to deny the spirituality of others simply to drag them into the Church. Most of the people you will see at the Vigil tomorrow night have already been asking the pertinent questions, whether from a Jewish, a Baptist, a non-Christian background. Remember, they see Christ in the Eucharist, as you and I do, and haven’t felt the need to go off and preach their own little church into existence. I’ve seen too much of that over the years. As much as they want to hear the Holy Spirit speaking, it is the simple voice of pride and human desire to speak in God’s place.
:juggle:
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c659smith
Guest
So they believe in Christ but not His teachings?
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Hisalone
Guest
You could not be further from te truth.
The ones Ive met have come from a long line of Jews and were raised and taught in the synagogue growing up. They all have different stories has to how tey came to know Christ. They incorporate Jewish tradition with tere new found beliefs.
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c659smith
Guest
What are their beliefs? Do they follow Christ?
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Hisalone
Guest
Hello Dymphana how is the winter up there.
I spent 2 years in Antigonish and spring didnt start untill May
uch: uch:I find that they are being converted by their own.
The Congregation that Ive been to has maybe 35-40 families, some grew up as genitle the vast majority as Jews most are very well educated and hold down highly responsible jobs.
Three from this congrefation, all reiased Jew, have moved on to make an international impact.
One is the best known recording artist of Messianic music —the former worship leader.
One as moved on to a ministry to the Jews and Isreal with interantional radio and TV programs.
One was the director of the Brownsville AG bible school who has moved on to write numerous books and maybe the best authority on Jewish Objections to Messiah… It is his 4 volume set that we are studying.
I say this to emphasis that they have their own roots, their own practice and their own mission within the body of Christ. Do not make the mistake that many, many Catholics make that because they have rejected Catholism that they do not have a God given purpose in His plan.
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Hisalone
Guest
But of course, He is their Messiah.
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Hisalone
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c659smith
Guest
Remember it is not what you put into the body but what comes out.
Is is not through circumcision we are saved.
While doing these things for health reasons is ok or for a fast but to do them as a way to heaven is not ok and not following Sacred Scripture.
Are you sure they follow the Messiah or their own conceptions.
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LutheranDK
Guest
Well, Hitler said he was Catholic, but his other statements violently contradict that one…
And thank you for that last clarification. Indeed - the devil has been a liar from the beginning…
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Hisalone
Guest
They believe that Yashua is the Messiah. They trust in and rely on Him.
Wy do you doubt that?
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c659smith
Guest
For they are still attached almost fully to the Old Law which Jesus fulfilled.
To know where one comes from is one thing but to keep clinging to those laws when Jesus clearly says enough of the old I have fulfilled them and I make things new.
to continue with the Old is a contradiction of faith.
pork
circumcision
salting of meat
washing
etc…
Make your committment and move on.
Those that are lukewarm I will spit out of my mouth.
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c659smith
Guest
Hitler in history attempteed to become Roman Catholic and become a priest but was removed
Though Hitler felt a particular urgency — and hatred — when dealing with Jews and Communists, he viewed the Catholic Church as a pernicious opponent, a deeply-entrenched threat that must be controlled and eventually uprooted from German life in order to establish his promised Thousand-Year-Reich. To help eliminate Catholic influence, he turned to Alfred Rosenberg, arch-ideologue, anti-Semite, and despiser of Christianity. In his book The Myth of the Twentieth Century, Rosenberg had formulated a “scientific” theory of racism. For him, the supreme human value was that of race: individual races possessed their own collective soul, a mystical “power of the blood and soil.” Each race also possessed a religious impulse (in the case of the Aryan Germans, this was the pagan cult of Wotan, king of the gods). Christianity, for Rosenberg, was the distorted product of Semitic tribes who had tricked the Aryans into jettisoning their pagan truth. The Catholic Church, prime mover in this spiritual swindle, was singled out for sustained attack as the promoter of “prodigious, conscious and unconscious falsifications.” Rosenberg claimed that Jesus Christ had been an unwitting tool of Jewish world conspirators, active as early as the first century AD. In some writings, he would go further and argue that Christ was possibly not a Jew at all, but a prototype Aryan, son of a Roman soldier stationed in Palestine
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Valke2
Guest
weren’t you on these boards under another name once upon a time. I work in NY, I’ve never seen any Messianic Jews, other than the occassional jew for jesus. I’d be interested in seeing how many jews converted to Messianics as opposed to Christians or other religions that follow it.
Please keep in mind that I prefaced my OP with “many messianic organizations, like Jews for Jesus, are made up of mostly christians…” I don’t argue that there aren’t messianic jews who were born jewish.
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