Mexicans Fill Pews, Even as Church Is Slow to Adapt

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Two years ago, St. Joseph’s Church in Prospect Heights, Brooklyn, seemed to be headed for extinction. Attendance at Sunday Masses had fallen below 100. The 159-year-old parish’s buildings were crumbling and its coffers were empty.

Today, the scaffolding outside bustles with workers. Sundays draw more than 300 worshipers, many of them families with small children. And where the prevailing language heard in the pews was once English, it is now overwhelmingly Spanish, with a Mexican accent.

nytimes.com/2011/03/26/nyregion/26mexicans.html?partner=rss&emc=rss
 
I think it interesting that Mexican immigrants are more likely to hold onto their Catholic faith. A year or two ago, a Pew Forum survey indicated that although Hispanic immigrants to the US were overwhelmingly Catholic, their children (raised in the US) tended to drift away at a rate equivalent to the children of non-Hispanic Americans. However, I don’t think the Pew Forum survey broke the category of Hispanic down into specific nationalities.
NYT article:
Recent studies attest to Mexican immigrants’ fidelity to the Catholic Church; of major Latino groups, they are the most likely to call themselves Catholic and the least likely to say they have no religion. A 2008 survey by the Pew Forum on Religious and Public Life found that about 72 percent of Mexican immigrants were Catholic, compared with 51 percent of other Latinos.
Quoting an advisor to Cardinal O’Connor

NYT article said:
“We would say to him, we lost the Puerto Ricans and we didn’t want this to happen again,” Father Skelly recalled.
 
Now of they start voting for pro-life candidates, we’ll be all set.
 
I find this a bit misleading…as another poster pointed out, the immigrants are going to mass, but their children and grandchildren are just as likely to be non practicing as every other Catholic person today.
 
I find this a bit misleading…as another poster pointed out, the immigrants are going to mass, but their children and grandchildren are just as likely to be non practicing as every other Catholic person today.
Which is an issue that the Church needs to address within itself, and not any indictment of the immigrants themselves. Where is the disconnect with younger people? What is the Church not providing that she needs to to keep them in. A period of wandering or questioning may be a necessary part of the journey to spiritual maturity for many, but why aren’t more coming back?

It’s interesting that anti-immigrant threads seem to imply often that, in contravention to the evidence such as shown in these news stories, immigrants (especially undocumented immigrants from Latin America and Mexico) somehow aren’t “really” Catholic. There were sentiments expressed on another thread I believe about them “sleeping in at home on Sunday” while the poster was at mass and giving in the offertory trays. Clearly this isn’t the case at all.
 
I kind of have a hard time with the Church in America being so excited about Mexican immigrants. In Mexico they were Catholic and here they’re Catholic. The Church’s enthusiasm is on the verge of pandering. How many archbishops break out their highschool Spanish during the annual appeal?

Speaking as someone who is a member of a Polish National Church, the language divide can really tear apart a Church to the point of schism, not faith, but language. In my Church there are constant English v. Polish arguments and the Church doesn’t seem to help or care as long as the receipts look good. It doesn’t help that the Archdiocese decided that our parish should be merged with several other parishes while other parishes with Latin-American populations are not being affected by any closings.

However, despite the special attention of the Church to Latin-American immigrants, I see the same thing happening with Spanish Masses. The same divide. The same pattern.

I might be sounding like the “prodigal son’s” brother, but the Church really has to do something to retain both immigrant Catholics and American-born Catholics. The Church might need to adapt, but it isn’t toward any single group. We can’t be relying on immigration to maintain numbers.
 
We need Catholics who hold fast to faith, no matter where they came from (here or there), yet we also need Catholics who want to be fully acclimated in the basic culture of the USA.

Please take no offense at this, I do not undestand why the many Catholic churches in the USA have so many different ethinic Masses (polish, spanish, etc.). Would it not just be much more simpler and more direct to return to latin Mass for all Catholic churches throughout the world? Language is a barrier…think of the Tower of Babylon.

I really feel uncomfortable with the seperation of Catholics like that. No matter where we come from, Catholics are all brothers and sisters in Christ and I have long felt we’d be better served to speak as if from one lung. It is disconcerting to see a Mass empty containing mainly Anglo’s, and watch as just minutes later the same church fills with mainly Polish or Hispanics. It is like an intentional seperations of the peoples and yet we are supposed to be one body.

I would rather see us (Catholics) from all backgrounds joining in prayer at the same masses as one body.
 
Which is an issue that the Church needs to address within itself, and not any indictment of the immigrants themselves. Where is the disconnect with younger people? What is the Church not providing that she needs to to keep them in. A period of wandering or questioning may be a necessary part of the journey to spiritual maturity for many, but why aren’t more coming back?
Because, and I know you’re not gonna want to hear this, but the Catholic Church is annoying, wishy-washy, and the religious education is only there to install OS X Papist 2.0. I know. I’m in there as a student. And frankly, I’ve noticed some things.
  1. Cath boring. Whenever we finally get to cool stuff (exorcism, aliens, the morality of movie characters’ actions, etc.), we spend ten minutes on it and move on to learning that Jesus is God for the thousandth time.
  2. It’s dry. There’s nothing put into the curriculum that makes us want to learn anything.
  3. All we hear are complaints.
 
Which is an issue that the Church needs to address within itself, and not any indictment of the immigrants themselves. Where is the disconnect with younger people? What is the Church not providing that she needs to to keep them in. A period of wandering or questioning may be a necessary part of the journey to spiritual maturity for many, but why aren’t more coming back?
Because, and I know you’re not gonna want to hear this, but the Catholic Church is annoying, wishy-washy, and the religious education is only there to install OS X Papist 2.0. It is way to obsessed with drilling the Catholic Church’s being Christ’s Church into people’s heads than actually teaching what that means. So annoying. I know. I’m in there as a student. And frankly, I’ve noticed some things.
  1. Catholic education is boring. Whenever we finally get to cool stuff (exorcism, aliens, the morality of movie characters’ actions, etc.), we spend ten minutes on it and move on to learning that Jesus is God for the thousandth time.
  2. Catholic education is dry. There’s nothing put into the curriculum that makes us want to learn anything.
  3. All we hear are complaints. We hear that the Church isn’t doing well. We hear that everyone is leaving. We hear that soon we’ll be extinct. What we don’t hear is any sort of plan to stop it. If we come up with ideas, they are immediately shot down, often just because teenagers suggest them, with the reason being that we “just don’t understand.” So what are we to do? That’s right! Tell the Church to die already and go somewhere that’s alive.
    Just putting my two cents in…
 
We need Catholics who hold fast to faith, no matter where they came from (here or there), yet we also need Catholics who want to be fully acclimated in the basic culture of the USA.

Please take no offense at this, I do not undestand why the many Catholic churches in the USA have so many different ethinic Masses (polish, spanish, etc.). Would it not just be much more simpler and more direct to return to latin Mass for all Catholic churches throughout the world? Language is a barrier…think of the Tower of Babylon.

I really feel uncomfortable with the seperation of Catholics like that. No matter where we come from, Catholics are all brothers and sisters in Christ and I have long felt we’d be better served to speak as if from one lung. It is disconcerting to see a Mass empty containing mainly Anglo’s, and watch as just minutes later the same church fills with mainly Polish or Hispanics. It is like an intentional seperations of the peoples and yet we are supposed to be one body.

I would rather see us (Catholics) from all backgrounds joining in prayer at the same masses as one body.
Personally, I’m all for the return of a regular Latin Mass - it would solve the problem of a multiple-languages and some of the cultural concerns.

About the only time I’ve seen a Mass, in several languages done well, was over a decade ago at one Christmas Eve Mass ‘13 different languages’ that night. In most of the cases of different languages you start to have divisions - who does what, which language when, Immaculate Mary Queen of the Universe versus Our Lady of Guadelupe and so forth.

All this division instead of focusing on Christ who is our Head, and gives us our unity. We are neither ‘Jew or Greek’… or in modern terms "Anglo or Hispanic or Polish’ - we are one in Christ period, and it would be good if the Liturgy itself returned to illustrating that in my opinion.
 
Because, and I know you’re not gonna want to hear this, but the Catholic Church is annoying, wishy-washy, and the religious education is only there to install OS X Papist 2.0. It is way to obsessed with drilling the Catholic Church’s being Christ’s Church into people’s heads than actually teaching what that means. So annoying. I know. I’m in there as a student. And frankly, I’ve noticed some things.
  1. Catholic education is boring. Whenever we finally get to cool stuff (exorcism, aliens, the morality of movie characters’ actions, etc.), we spend ten minutes on it and move on to learning that Jesus is God for the thousandth time.
  2. Catholic education is dry. There’s nothing put into the curriculum that makes us want to learn anything.
  3. All we hear are complaints. We hear that the Church isn’t doing well. We hear that everyone is leaving. We hear that soon we’ll be extinct. What we don’t hear is any sort of plan to stop it. If we come up with ideas, they are immediately shot down, often just because teenagers suggest them, with the reason being that we “just don’t understand.” So what are we to do? That’s right! Tell the Church to die already and go somewhere that’s alive.
    Just putting my two cents in…
How about Catholic Education starts teaching the “Truth” with some passion and conviction?

Learning the faith should not be a ‘boring’ experience. That being said, a lot of that is due to the culture we live in. Short attention spans - an inability to focus - and so forth are some of the struggles faced by instructors.

(I’ve worked in several different high schools and this is simply what I have observed)

Orthodoxy is actually exciting as G.K. Chesterton reminds us.
 
I would hold off on saying that the Latin Mass is a perfect vehicle for integration-note that even long before an English Mass was in the works, there were German ethnic parishes, Italian ethnic parishes, Polish ethnic parishes, and Slav ethnic parishes (leaving, by default the regular parishes belonging to the Irish).

Having a Spanish Mass in the same parish as an English Mass is quite a step forward from the days when a separate parish entirely would have been established.
 
I believe the main purpose of giving masses in another language different from the country’s own language is to continue spreading the faith. Since some immigrants, temporary or not, can not speak the language of that country. Living in the middle east, i have seen masses given in about 7 different languages in a week, since lots of people can not speak english or arabic well. The importance relies not in what language masses are being offered but how much audience can be reached.
 
How about Catholic Education starts teaching the “Truth” with some passion and conviction?

Learning the faith should not be a ‘boring’ experience. That being said, a lot of that is due to the culture we live in. Short attention spans - an inability to focus - and so forth are some of the struggles faced by instructors.

(I’ve worked in several different high schools and this is simply what I have observed)

Orthodoxy is actually exciting as G.K. Chesterton reminds us.
Orthodoxy is exciting. I totally agree with that. Fulton Sheen was exciting. John Chrysostom was exciting. From the scraps I’ve read, Irenaeus of Lyons, Ignatius of Antioch, John Paul the Great, and Justin the Martyr were exciting. Why are they not teaching us? Why are we being taught by dry documents that beat a dead horse and quote neither the Bible nor the Fathers? Our attention spans are short because otherwise interesting material (seriously, say the word “exorcism” and everyone will pay attention) is presented in a dry, boring way.

I’m sorry. I just needed to get that out.
 
If we can manage to retain the Hispanic children considering the rate they are immigrating and having children stateside I think we might be able to forge a Catholic bloc :cool:
 
But will they vote pro-life, ragrdless of party? They haven’t recently. Which makes their religious affiliation as meaningless as white Catholics.
 
As the Roman Catholic Church in the United States struggles with an exodus of American-born faithful, its ranks have been replenished by recent Latino immigrants — most of them Mexicans, who have brought an intense faith and a youthful energy.
What spin this article has! Are the Latinos more faith-filled than Americans? Has their catechesis been better than ours that they will attend Mass more faithfully than the **70% **of Americans who only attend Mass on occasion? Is their sacramental life stronger? I can find dozens of articles and polls which state that younger Hispanics are turning away from the Catholic church, and further, the numbers of Latinos attending Protestant churches has sharply risen.

hispanic5.com/more_hispanics_leaving_catholicism_for_evangelical_protestantism.htm

Even in our own parish, after recording a slight surge in Hispanic numbers, we, in our religious ed classes then noticed that after the first sacraments were received, we could no longer find a trace of the family.

It is drivel to suggest that the Church will be re-energized because of Mexicans filling the pews; and further, I agree that the ethnic Masses only bring emphasis to our **differences **and have no unifying effect whatever. I will never be able to worship with my Latino brothers and sisters if we each attend separate Masses in our own language. It is lunacy to suggest otherwise.

If the Church wants to re-fill the pews on a permanent basis, then I suggest the American bishops start an all-out campaign to return to orthodox catechesis where faith in the Real Presence might be restored and the sacraments be lived in an authentic Catholic lifestyle. Stop the infiltration of politics into the faith where so-called social justice programs are proseltyzing Catholics away from authentic Church teaching and offering contraception and abortion as legitimate alternatives.
 
Personally, I’m all for the return of a regular Latin Mass - it would solve the problem of a multiple-languages and some of the cultural concerns.

About the only time I’ve seen a Mass, in several languages done well, was over a decade ago at one Christmas Eve Mass ‘13 different languages’ that night. In most of the cases of different languages you start to have divisions - who does what, which language when, Immaculate Mary Queen of the Universe versus Our Lady of Guadelupe and so forth.

All this division instead of focusing on Christ who is our Head, and gives us our unity. We are neither ‘Jew or Greek’… or in modern terms "Anglo or Hispanic or Polish’ - we are one in Christ period, and it would be good if the Liturgy itself returned to illustrating that in my opinion.
Yes, it would seem that the Universal faith should use a Universal language so that Mass is the same everywhere throughout the world.
 
I certainly agree that temporary influx is no guarantee of permanency in attendance or practice. I also agree with Tigg that Pentecostals are just as likely to attract Mexicans as Catholicism is.

This is purely anecdotal (non-statistical), and it is only one example, but I wonder how often it is repeated in other regions which include a large percentage of Latino immigrants. If the story were really a demographic trend, I should see a ton of Mexicans in any of the many parishes I attend in my area. (My work schedule is so variable that I find myself attending in many different local cities & at various Mass times.) In all of the local churches I have attended whose residency happens to feature a large population of Mexicans, there are no or extremely few Mexicans in the pews. That is in contrast to other immigrant groups in this highly, highly diverse area.

Personally, I see this partly to be an unfortunate result of language, which is only one of the reasons that I believe the Church should not multiply offerings of Spanish language Masses, but rather limit them to one essential Mass per week (for example), in parish locations (or parish clusters) which currently or have traditionally featured Mexican immigrants. Why? Because it discourages the learning of English. And why is that important? Because it further insulates those Mexican Catholics from the need to learn English and assimilate. This is not a cry to “not be Mexican.” ! So please don’t flame me. It’s great to keep one’s culture, whatever that culture is. ! But the insularity of staying within a pocket of Mexican culture (and learning “just enough” English to do barely enough to engage in business in the States) does not promote immigrant advancement in education (first of all, which is my biggest concern). Secondly, when the inevitable parish closings happen (which we have seen increasingly in the last 5 years), those Mexicans are then, not being literate enough to relate to the English Mass, do not have an immediate alternative.
This tends not to happen with other immigrant groups. While there still are Masses in Tagalog, etc., in my region, most Filipino immigrants become bilingual much faster than Mexicans do; ditto for the Vietnamese, the Koreans, the Chinese. Because of that, it tends to be not long after these latter arrive, that they can attend any English Mass in any location. And I mean working-class immigrants, not professional class. So in the most diverse parishes in my region, I see lots of immigrants (some with heavy accents, some light, some merely ‘broken English’), but extremely few of those attending English Masses are Mexicans.

Overall, the Vietnamese, Filipinos, Koreans, and Chinese (for example) spread out more over the landscape. They often have their mini-pockets (business neighborhoods, for example), but there is much more interface with English-speakers than there is for Mexicans who settle in heavily Spanish-speaking locations, trade with other Spanish-speakers, attend public schools with classes taught in Spanish (since I’m a teacher and have taught in many of these locations, I would know that), etc. If there are also Spanish-speaking Pentecostal alternatives near them (as there are in my region with lots of Spanish speakers), and their local Spanish Mass disappears for personnel or budgetary reasons, they predictably either join the Protestant alternative, or stop attending church altogether.

Again, this is not a statistical picture, so I do not know what Mass attendance & practice is elsewhere in Mexican-American populations. But it is true in my major metro region broadly. I would prefer to see parish/church cultural centers in strategic locations where these populations settle – centers which would continue to offer a minimum number of Spanish masses & instuction/sacramental preparation, but additionally have things like English classes (especially for adults) and other resources to encourage broad assimilation. I.m.o. this is an aspect of social justice. (But despite that, I’ll get flamed for such a “radical” idea. ;))
 
But will they vote pro-life, ragrdless of party? They haven’t recently. Which makes their religious affiliation as meaningless as white Catholics.
hence “retain”. I don’t mean cafeteria Catholic, I mean the type of Catholic who can do the Station of the Cross by memory, genuflects, etc
Yes, it would seem that the Universal faith should use a Universal language so that Mass is the same everywhere throughout the world.
Didn’t seem like Latin prevented ethnic churches in the US (then again it might have been because of extreme persecution by “real” Americans that they huddled together to support each other).
I certainly agree that temporary influx is no guarantee of permanency in attendance or practice. I also agree with Tigg that Pentecostals are just as likely to attract Mexicans as Catholicism is.

This is purely anecdotal (non-statistical), and it is only one example, but I wonder how often it is repeated in other regions which include a large percentage of Latino immigrants. If the story were really a demographic trend, I should see a ton of Mexicans in any of the many parishes I attend in my area. (My work schedule is so variable that I find myself attending in many different local cities & at various Mass times.) In all of the local churches I have attended whose residency happens to feature a large population of Mexicans, there are no or extremely few Mexicans in the pews. That is in contrast to other immigrant groups in this highly, highly diverse area.

Personally, I see this partly to be an unfortunate result of language, which is only one of the reasons that I believe the Church should not multiply offerings of Spanish language Masses, but rather limit them to one essential Mass per week (for example), in parish locations (or parish clusters) which currently or have traditionally featured Mexican immigrants. Why? Because it discourages the learning of English. And why is that important? Because it further insulates those Mexican Catholics from the need to learn English and assimilate. This is not a cry to “not be Mexican.” ! So please don’t flame me. It’s great to keep one’s culture, whatever that culture is. ! But the insularity of staying within a pocket of Mexican culture (and learning “just enough” English to do barely enough to engage in business in the States) does not promote immigrant advancement in education (first of all, which is my biggest concern). Secondly, when the inevitable parish closings happen (which we have seen increasingly in the last 5 years), those Mexicans are then, not being literate enough to relate to the English Mass, do not have an immediate alternative.
This tends not to happen with other immigrant groups. While there still are Masses in Tagalog, etc., in my region, most Filipino immigrants become bilingual much faster than Mexicans do; ditto for the Vietnamese, the Koreans, the Chinese. Because of that, it tends to be not long after these latter arrive, that they can attend any English Mass in any location. And I mean working-class immigrants, not professional class. So in the most diverse parishes in my region, I see lots of immigrants (some with heavy accents, some light, some merely ‘broken English’), but extremely few of those attending English Masses are Mexicans.

Overall, the Vietnamese, Filipinos, Koreans, and Chinese (for example) spread out more over the landscape. They often have their mini-pockets (business neighborhoods, for example), but there is much more interface with English-speakers than there is for Mexicans who settle in heavily Spanish-speaking locations, trade with other Spanish-speakers, attend public schools with classes taught in Spanish (since I’m a teacher and have taught in many of these locations, I would know that), etc. If there are also Spanish-speaking Pentecostal alternatives near them (as there are in my region with lots of Spanish speakers), and their local Spanish Mass disappears for personnel or budgetary reasons, they predictably either join the Protestant alternative, or stop attending church altogether.

Again, this is not a statistical picture, so I do not know what Mass attendance & practice is elsewhere in Mexican-American populations. But it is true in my major metro region broadly. I would prefer to see parish/church cultural centers in strategic locations where these populations settle – centers which would continue to offer a minimum number of Spanish masses & instuction/sacramental preparation, but additionally have things like English classes (especially for adults) and other resources to encourage broad assimilation. I.m.o. this is an aspect of social justice. (But despite that, I’ll get flamed for such a “radical” idea. ;))
I live in the SFBA and I see tons hispanics especially Mexicans (and Filipinos, but that’s because Vallejo has a ton of them) even in the English Mass. Visit Spanish Masses and you will see plenty.

The immigrants I have met have tried hard to learn English because it is essential to them getting good jobs to provide for their families.

Pro-tip, English is an official language of the Philippines and it is really easy to find a school that offers it. The fact that they will leave if there isn’t a Spanish Mass is an argument for Spanish masses.
 
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