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fix
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Is not Moore the guy who pays men to carry guns and guard him, yet wants to deny that right to all other American’s? Not to mention his suport of abortion and homosexual acts. Elitist.
Michael Moore helps out shelter just by posting article on his website
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Brad
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I am not cutting Michael Moore ANY slack. That is the whole point. He says one thing and does another. That is called hypocrisy.
If you love animals then post a thread supporting the SPCA for pete’s sake. I say as Moore supports killing babies then he will receive no positive press from me. Those babies scream for mercy. It’s the least I can do.
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Steph700
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That’s just silly. Everyone on this forum knows I don’t like Bush, but if he did something good like this to help animals I would praise him for it. I don’t have to be in 100% agreement with someone to acknowledge the fact that they did something good.
As a side note, praising MM for helping animals does not in any way shape or form SUPPORT abortion. It is totally possible for an individual to make the decison to promote what MM has done for these animals and at the same time stand firmly against abortion. I am just as much agaist abortion as any other orthodox Catholic. But I am also capable of finding good in people who aren’t perfect… there seem to be a lot of us imperfect people out there, Brad. Or perhaps you would like to suggest someone else who has helped animals who is also 100% in line with Catholic teaching and has lead a perfect life? I am all ears.
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KBarn
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Steph,
The popes since Leo XIII have all unequivocally condemned Socialism. I believe it was Pius IX who said that it is impossible for a person to be both a socialist and a Catholic. I point you to Rerum Novarum, Quadregisimo Anno, and other social justice encyclicals for more on that.
I am simply responding to the accusation that a person such as I am not forgiving. I am forgiving. I think that Michael Moore does it all for money. I have read a lot about him. He is making millions of dollars selling propaganda films. And I am sorry that I just can’t think that a man loves America when he makes ideologically driven statements about the attacks on 9/11 and then condemns the use of force by the United States against Afghanistan to unseat the Taliban. That military action was supported by the Holy Father and the Vatican.
I really don’t care if you like GW Bush or not. That is not the judge of a good Catholic, or over half the country would be good Catholics. I am just suggesting that my distaste for Michael Moore and his tactics does not render me unforgiving or uncharitable, just opinioned and principled.
I do desire the best for Michael Moore’s soul. I pray for him. I respect the dignity he has as a human person, but I am not going to sugarcoat all the bad stuff that he advocates for the sake of appearing moderate and sensible because my position is in harmony with reason and truth.
Here are several reasons why I detest Michael Moore. And I think I occupy a reasonable position.
The popes since Leo XIII have all unequivocally condemned Socialism. I believe it was Pius IX who said that it is impossible for a person to be both a socialist and a Catholic. I point you to Rerum Novarum, Quadregisimo Anno, and other social justice encyclicals for more on that.
I am simply responding to the accusation that a person such as I am not forgiving. I am forgiving. I think that Michael Moore does it all for money. I have read a lot about him. He is making millions of dollars selling propaganda films. And I am sorry that I just can’t think that a man loves America when he makes ideologically driven statements about the attacks on 9/11 and then condemns the use of force by the United States against Afghanistan to unseat the Taliban. That military action was supported by the Holy Father and the Vatican.
I really don’t care if you like GW Bush or not. That is not the judge of a good Catholic, or over half the country would be good Catholics. I am just suggesting that my distaste for Michael Moore and his tactics does not render me unforgiving or uncharitable, just opinioned and principled.
I do desire the best for Michael Moore’s soul. I pray for him. I respect the dignity he has as a human person, but I am not going to sugarcoat all the bad stuff that he advocates for the sake of appearing moderate and sensible because my position is in harmony with reason and truth.
Here are several reasons why I detest Michael Moore. And I think I occupy a reasonable position.
- Fahrenheit 911 attempts in every way possible to link Osama bin Laden to George Bush. Moore even claims that Bush deliberately gave bin Laden “a two month head start” by not putting sufficient forces into Afghanistan soon enough.
- 9/14/01: “Declare war?” War against whom? One guy in the desert whom we can never seem to find? Are our leaders telling us that the most powerful country on earth cannot dispose of one sick evil f—wad of a guy?
- Michael Moore compares the terrorists in Iraq to the American Patriots in 1776: “The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not “insurgents” or “terrorists” or “The Enemy.” They are the REVOLUTION, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow – and they will win.”
- Hezbollah helped distribute Fahrenheit 9/11. Hezbollah!
- Four days after 9/11: “We, the United States of America, are culpable in committing so many acts of terror and bloodshed that we better get a clue about the culture of violence in which we have been active participants.” What terrorism has the United States been involved in recently?
- Calls Americans “possibly the dumbest people on the planet” to pander to foreign audiences.
- Socialist contributor to the UW-Madison Badger Herald: “Saturday night, Moore made strong calls for gay marriage and abortion.”
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Brad
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You would make a thread praising Bush? Now, THAT is silly. Why not make a thread praising him for promoting Christianity? Or will you not do that because you think he has ulterior motives?
Primacy of truth Steph, not primacy of conscience. Your “side note” may ease your exterior feeling of conscience but it was not something that I asked for nor did I accuse you of supporting abortion. I’m simply asking you to think about what kind of effect supporting someone who is impressionable to young adults and teeenagers and DOES support abortion might have. If you are ALL ears, you may need a body makeover because I gave you someone to praise for the animals - the SPCA. It is not I that am insistent that you pick a perfect “animal” person. It is you that is insistent in praising Michael Moore.
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Brad
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I’m sure there are some animal lovers in Hezbollah. Can’t you say anthing nice about them?
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Steph700
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Why would it be silly to praise Bush for helping animals? Maybe I am just not catching your drift.
In all honesty, I do think Bush has alterior motives, but that subject is for another thread not this one.
I’m not sure how my supporting MM on this thread is somehow leading impressionable young adults and teens to support abortion. Listen, besides Jesus there isn’t anyone else I could say “Ok, this person has it ALL together, do exactly as he/she does”. I am sure there are some people who put too much stock in what MM says and does and insodoing support some things that are wrong. I’m not one of those people, I will say loud and clear that I do not agree with anyone who supports abortion.
However, I am also sure there are many people out there (gosh, just read some of the threads on this board!) that go way too far promoting Bush as the perfect moral leader. Aren’t they leading people astray by simply agreeing with everything he says or does? Of course they are.
I’m not saying you’re one of those people, but my point is that uncritically promoting an individual’s every deed or word is just as silly as constant criticism of an individual w/o even looking at what they said or did.
I do insist that MM and every other person be given a fair chance, goodness knows if my life was out there for the whole world to see I am sure people could point out some nasty but true aspects of my life that haven’t been in line with Church teaching. If that means I deserve the same ridicule and hatred exhibited towards MM then I am in deep trouble!
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fix
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Defending the indefensible.
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Brad
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No, no, no. That IS the crux of the issue. You will not make a thread praising Bush for his Christianity because you think he has ulterior motives and would gladly tell us so if we posted such a thread. We think Moore has ulterior motives. See the correlation??
What is the biggest demographic that attends movies and what business is Moore in? Praising a movie maker leads others to want to watch his movies and frequently this leads to doing what they do and supporting what they support. That is human nature, especially during formative years.
That is very commendable that you will do that. Think about it this way. You are mature enough to make that proper distinguishment. Many, many are not.
It would be going too far to say he is perfect. I’m sure he would be the first to admit that he isn’t.
Bush is far from perfect, you are right. But that doesn’t make him a terrible president and he really does support life although he faces a juggernaut of population and politics against him.
There are very few people that I would crticize promotion of. Michael Moore just happens to be one of them.
Everyone should be given a fair chance. I’m not saying Moore cannot make any money. The guy is rich. I’m saying his ideologies are severely damaging. I give him a chance every day. He can walk in my church any day he wants to. He is welcome to go to confession and then communion. The door is open.
You are not a higly public figure with a high-traffic website that continually promotes awful things. So I don’t think you run the same risk as Moore. But even if you were highly public and did only good things you would be criticized. That is the way of life. Moore is a big guy. He can handle it. I want him to convert to Christ. I can’t do that by saying all he does is oky-doky. Just like I can’t reach deeper conversion by saying everything I do is oky-doky.
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