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dermot2
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I’m talking about bad economy, loss of innocence for children, immorality in schools and in the media --I could go on…
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John1956
Guest
Would you also be in favor, as I am, of revoking the medical license from any doctor who deliberately kills an unborn human being?
Hint: a human being, whether born or unborn, is much more precious than any animal.
John
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fulbert4605
Guest
Amen! There is a disconnect in our society that becomes especially evident when you see Michael Vick versus George Tiller. If we’re going to apply standards of decency when dealing with life and death, let’s at least apply those standards somewhat equally. (i know animal lives are not as valuable as human lives, but you have to wonder when people like George Tiller are referred to as “Doctor” and Michael Vick is referred to as a criminal; i think they’re both criminals to one degree or another)
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aicirt
Guest
Yes, I would be in favor of revoking a doctor’s medical license who deliberately killed through abortion. What made you think I wouldn’t?
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John1956
Guest
I guess I’m tired of hearing so much about cruelty to animals while not much is being said, at least in the lamestream media, about the greater evil of the killing of an unborn human being. I hope you don’t mind that I point this out on the thread you started.
Thanks,
John
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aicirt
Guest
Tiller’s sobriquet was Tiller the Killer. What he did, as we know, was and is legal in our society. For me, a disconnect came when the Reformed Lutheran Church, of which he and his wife were active members, held a memorial in a Methodist Church for a man who murdered 60,000 babies. What were they thinking? How could either church have found anything Christian(Christ like) about this man?
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Nicollle
Guest
I think people tend to have more sympathy for dogs is because they are so helpless and innocent. They have no control over who’s hands they are in. Same with children. Adult women can call 911, leave the guy, and choose who they date. I was disgusted when Rihanna took Chris Brown back initially. There is no way those tortured dogs would’ve returned to Vick if given the choice.
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aicirt
Guest
Vick is a sadist. He got pleasure out of watching animals suffer. That’s sick.
Tiller was a sadist. I don’t know if he got pleasure out of it but he didn’t have any qualms about killing children. I don’t know where the disconnect happens. How he never held one of those babies in his hands and never admitted this was a living child.
Both lacked empathy for other living things… one human and the other canine.
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whatevergirl
Guest
*For anyone interested, my husband just called me from work and said Vick will be on 60 minutes tonight…
He needs our prayers…I pray he is repentant. It will be very sad if after jail time and being invited back to play in the NFL, which should be considered an honor by these men, he doesn’t grow in a positive way. I think helping teach kids to not hurt animals is a good start.
Anyways, just wanted to alert you all to that.
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He needs our prayers…I pray he is repentant. It will be very sad if after jail time and being invited back to play in the NFL, which should be considered an honor by these men, he doesn’t grow in a positive way. I think helping teach kids to not hurt animals is a good start.
Anyways, just wanted to alert you all to that.
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whatevergirl
Guest
*:bigyikes: waaaiiit a minute…he HAD a contract before all of this happened for $135 million? Wooooowwww! I didn’t know that. Is that the highest it’s ever been for a player?
Well, the interview was interesting. He sounded remorseful, truthfully? Only God can judge…and it was good to know that the NFL didn’t indefinitely reinstate him…it seems like as long as he stays out of trouble, he has a spot there. Fair enough, I suppose. I’ll be praying that he stays on the straight and narrow now…it was a good interview, and I personally thought he seemed contrite. I also didn’t know that he started witnessing these dog fights as a kid. Looks like he is on the road to doing better things now. I feel bad that people are given so much, and have to learn these life lessons the very hard way…he seems like deep down, he knew it was wrong, but couldn’t or wouldn’t stop it for whatever the reason.
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Well, the interview was interesting. He sounded remorseful, truthfully? Only God can judge…and it was good to know that the NFL didn’t indefinitely reinstate him…it seems like as long as he stays out of trouble, he has a spot there. Fair enough, I suppose. I’ll be praying that he stays on the straight and narrow now…it was a good interview, and I personally thought he seemed contrite. I also didn’t know that he started witnessing these dog fights as a kid. Looks like he is on the road to doing better things now. I feel bad that people are given so much, and have to learn these life lessons the very hard way…he seems like deep down, he knew it was wrong, but couldn’t or wouldn’t stop it for whatever the reason.
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pnewton
Guest
So is a rock.
Not that animals are inanimate or unfeeling, but humans are higher above animals to a greater degree than a dog is above a rock. I think comparing innocent suffering of animals to the innocent suffering of humans fails to understand just what it means to be made in God’s image. When a man takes pleasure in being cruel to an animal, it is his soul that will suffer the greatest damage. I believe like most that animal cruelity is unexcusable, but it does not deserve permanent punishment.
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whatevergirl
Guest
*You make an interesting point there. In the interview, not sure if you caught it, I think the Human Society President made a comment, that although he is skeptical, he said that permanently punishing someone doesn’t help young kids who might be exposed to this, to change their lives. My thought is that sometimes we do things in life that are bad, that are sinful, but if we can get up, be contrite and remorseful, and repentant…we can help shape the lives of others going down a similiar path. I think that is how Vick’s crimes can help him to turn to God, and how he can help others to.
We’ll see.
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Nicollle
Guest
Animals feel physical pain just as we do. They feel emotion in similar ways. This doesn’t mean they are of equal worth. It just means that there suffering matters just as much, which doesn’t mean their lives value just as much. For example, humanely euthanizing an animal is not comparable to euthanizing a human, but torturing one is of a similar nature to torturing a human. Most serial killers start on animals. All God’s creatures deserve to be treated humanely, and those of us who are given dominion over the others have a special responsibility to the lesser. This doesn’t mean we are all equal.
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joe_clark
Guest
The majority see’s through Vic. He’s sorry, He’s sorry he got caught and blew a lucrative career. The interview this past weekend was a joke. Looking directly into the interviewers and the camera eyes, he swears the money doesn’t matter.
Vic wasn’t just guilty of dogfighting, not that two dogs killing each other is ok, but vic himself was a party to drowning, punching, beating and electrocution of dogs when they did not perform well. Sounds exactly like do as the romans did. There is something mentally wrong with anyone who engages in this behavior. Anyone who abuses dogs doesn’t have abusing humans far behind. I know he is getting Jeff Laurie of the Eagles help to rehabilitate him and Vic will clean out cages at the local spca for a photo-op, but what is anyone doing for his head?
When they interviewed the teamates, some would go on and on about redemption, but not all are happy about this. Some players say little and walk away. Vic will not help the eagles. There is NO expectation of them winning this year. Bad business move.
Vic wasn’t just guilty of dogfighting, not that two dogs killing each other is ok, but vic himself was a party to drowning, punching, beating and electrocution of dogs when they did not perform well. Sounds exactly like do as the romans did. There is something mentally wrong with anyone who engages in this behavior. Anyone who abuses dogs doesn’t have abusing humans far behind. I know he is getting Jeff Laurie of the Eagles help to rehabilitate him and Vic will clean out cages at the local spca for a photo-op, but what is anyone doing for his head?
When they interviewed the teamates, some would go on and on about redemption, but not all are happy about this. Some players say little and walk away. Vic will not help the eagles. There is NO expectation of them winning this year. Bad business move.
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aicirt
Guest
I didn’t see 60 Minutes. This morning, the news said he realized it was wrong when the prison doors closed behind him. He has a mentor who, I hear, is a good man. Vick grew up watching dog fights. I know people who have seen brutality either when they were kids or in a war and are repelled by it. What made him go to it?
Other question is I don’t believe this was not known by his former team nor the other players. I’m still of the opinion that teams should have their own rules: mess up like Vick, beat your wife or children, consort with known felons, commit a crime, drive drunk and kill someone and you can say good-bye to your multi-million dollar life.
The only other thought was if it took incarceration for Vick to get a flicker going in his head and heart of the brutality of his actions, maybe, giving him benefit of the doubt, empathy is something that can be learned. Maybe anti-abortion campaigns need to include that abortions cause pain to these babies. Maybe there are people who haven’t thought of that.
Other question is I don’t believe this was not known by his former team nor the other players. I’m still of the opinion that teams should have their own rules: mess up like Vick, beat your wife or children, consort with known felons, commit a crime, drive drunk and kill someone and you can say good-bye to your multi-million dollar life.
The only other thought was if it took incarceration for Vick to get a flicker going in his head and heart of the brutality of his actions, maybe, giving him benefit of the doubt, empathy is something that can be learned. Maybe anti-abortion campaigns need to include that abortions cause pain to these babies. Maybe there are people who haven’t thought of that.
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JaneGrey
Guest
I dont know why many are talking about animals being of lower worth than humans. I believe different, but never mind my supposedly unChristian beliefs…they are not important. What is important here is animals feel as much pain as humans when tortured, and that in itself makes the act gravely wrong. I dont think its right that Micheal Vick can just go on with his life so soon.
Further even if you are someone who beleives non-human animals are worthless, the fact is a person who harms an innocent animal, its that much easier for him to harm an innocent child. Many people here have mentioned how animal abuse so so often leads to killing of humans etc.
Further even if you are someone who beleives non-human animals are worthless, the fact is a person who harms an innocent animal, its that much easier for him to harm an innocent child. Many people here have mentioned how animal abuse so so often leads to killing of humans etc.
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pnewton
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Why? Catholic sites often reflect Christian teaching, namely that Man is made in God’s image. No one here has advocated causing animals pain, though, just that the act of killing animals is not comparable to killing people. I said earlier that in Texas, for example, such an act is not even a felony. This is not to say that it is not a crime and should not be a crime. No, just that the punishment should not be comparable to crime against people.
Do you not think Vick should ever be able to go one with his life, or that just not enough time has passed? Do you also reject the idea that a jury should be able to assess punishment and the rest of society should honor that?
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joe_clark
Guest
Maybe in Texas and the rest of the country, killing animals like cows and chickens humanely is not a felony, however in the other 49 states, if you electrocute, shoot, hit with a baseball bat a dog because it did not win fighting, you go to jail. The dog fighting is a felony, the torture of animals for sport is a felony.
First, Jeff Laurie the owner of the Eagles thought he got a bargain, a 27 million dollar player for 1.2 million. He aquired Vic to be a beard for Donavan McNabb. NacNabb’s play has been poor at best. For the last 5 seasons, he completly melts down or "get’s a boo boo and can’t play) usually 2 games before the season ends.
Jeff Laurie makes millions on merchandising, Mcnabb bobble head dolls, jerseys, programs, cups, Cambell’s soup ect. Laurie would like to win a superbowl, but doesn’t want to win. Laurie makes garanteed money from the merchandise. SO, we here in Philly believe Laurie picked Vic for a diversion and deflection of Mcnabb’s poor play.
Last week in exhibition, McNabb played horribly (as usual) and who was everyone talking about? Not McNabb.
Like I posted earlier, vick can get on with his life, but he forfieted the privilege of a football career. He needs to find another avenue of employment. Anyone who tortured animals to their deaths like Vic, is mentally ill and should not be trusted around other people. Here in Philadelphia, the Eagles organization has sent a form letter to all season ticket holders because so far approximatley 15% have sent them back and are done with the Eagles. No one here see’s Vic helping the team to win anything but the booby prize for stupidity. I believe this is still a pot that is boiling. Only time will tell.
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pnewton
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As they should. No one is fighting the strawman that Vick should not have gone to jail, yet this strawman keeps getting stuffed.
No he didn’t. He signed with the Eagles. Practically, he is set waaayyyy back as a consequence of his crime, as he should be. But he has been allowed to play again.
I do not think there will be a big pot boiling. From what I can tell here, there is not a big crossover between NFL fans and those who think punishment for animal crimes should be life-long.
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joe_clark
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