Michael Voris takes EWTN to task

[jking1962]

I think a reporter not sharing his own opinion is a good thing. I like my news without the editorializing.

The Eucharist on the ground? I’m sorry you had that type of experience. That is truly sad. I know I could fill a book with such stories that would give fodder for months of Vortex episodes. But to what end?

I’m the one who admitted to only watching this one episode of the Vortex (I watched 2 minutes of another one years ago ). If it bothers anyone that I would draw conclusions based on one episode and a whole lot of second-hand information, I would ask you to imagine how the bishops feel. They get judged just the same. And if we owe Voris a bit of room before forming an opinion, how much more do we owe the successors of the Apostles?

To what end? For years, the sex scandal was left unabated because of unawareness. After all, isn’t awareness the point of reporting? When you get enough people fed up with the corruption then there is more pressure and prayer applied to those in power to fix it. Again the assumption is that the reason these ills are chronic is because the leadership is failing to do the job.

The point is not to continually beat up Bishops because they are not perfect but to clean up serious corruption. Again this assumes serious problems in the Church.

You are correct that we never have the whole picture, but nobody does except God. I can see the “don’t judge” coming out here. The “don’t judge” as Jesus taught is about not judging someone motives. We can already judge an intrinsically wrong action. The bible also teaches about rebuking your brother.

To what end? This again rings loudly to the lack of seriousness that we consider problems. We have been so used to mediocrity that we accept the fact that too many priests are effeminate and have no backbone, we accept the fact that our Lord is disrespected every week in our parishes. It has become business as usual.

To what end? So when we see genocide in another country, should we say to what end? Heck even social justice Catholics will want to do something.

This issues in the Church are even more serious because it is about the salvation of souls?

Your responses continually imply that these problems are just a natural part of the human condition and whining about them is futile.

 

[Credo111]

jking wrote:

This again rings loudly to the lack of seriousness that we consider problems. We have been so used to mediocrity that we accept the fact that too many priests are effeminate and have no backbone, we accept the fact that our Lord is disrespected every week in our parishes. It has become business as usual.

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head.

Many have fallen into a bit of a spiritual torpor. We have grown accustomed to the mediocrity, and think it just needs to be accepted.

The confession lines are tiny compared to the multitudes who go up to receive Holy Communion. Either we are a Church bursting to the seams with living saints–or we have lost all concept of sin and think confession is needless. I place my bet on the latter.

Couple that with the fact that 70% of parishioners don’t even believe in the Real Presence–and you get a massive number of sacrilegious communions taking place at Mass every week all over the world.

We know from Scripture & Church teaching that those who fail to discern the Body and Blood, those who receive unworthily and not in a state of grace, “eat and drink to their damnation.”

But nope–no crisis. The house is not on fire. Move along, folks–nothing to see here. Souls are falling “like snowflakes” into hell, but let’s just keep it business as usual…

 

[Edmundus1581]

And he’s got the support and encouragement of solid champions of orthodoxy like Cdl. Raymond Burke and Bp. Fabian Bruskewitz, among others, who agree that what he says is on target and needs to be said.

I don’t believe it. I’m not even bothering to google the names before posting.

 

[pnewton]

Soooooo, back to the topic at hand, anyone?

 

[Credo111]

I don’t believe it. I’m not even bothering to google the names before posting.

Does that mean that you don’t know who these bishops are?

One is the recently retired bishop of Lincoln, Nebraska, where the seminary is bursting at the seams and the TLM is flourishing (the FSSP seminary is headquartered there).

The other is the Supreme Prefect of the Apostolic Signatura, the chief canonist of the Catholic Church on the highest Court in the Church, best known for his ardent promotion of applying Canon 915, and his love of the TLM.

Michael is actually in Rome now and is scheduled to meet with Cdl. Burke during his visit–as he always does when he visits Rome.

I’m friends with the good people at CMTV, so this is how I know this. But you don’t have to take my word for it.

You are more than welcome to check out Bp. Bruskewitz’s personal video endorsement of Michael & his apostolate on the ChurchMilitant.TV website, or see Cdl. Burke personally visiting his studio and giving it his blessing, which is easily found on YouTube.
Christine

 

[Burt_Macklin]

Voris seems well-intentioned but he really needs to rein in the demagoguery if he wants people to take him seriously.

I mean we all just know the Vatican is run by a cabal of homosexuals intent on undermining Church teaching. It has to be. Have you seen how effeminate some priests are? I mean c’mon guys we all know this, right?

 

[Credo111]

Voris seems well-intentioned but he really needs to rein in the demagoguery if he wants people to take him seriously.

I mean we all just know the Vatican is run by a cabal of homosexuals intent on undermining Church teaching. It has to be. Have you seen how effeminate some priests are? I mean c’mon guys we all know this, right?

Way to caricature MV. Yet more scoffing and burying heads in the sand. As for me, I’ll take Pope Francis at his word when he acknowledged the existence of a “gay lobby” in the Vatican that seeks to undermine the Church from within…

 

[Havard]

Just wanted to share with you all that Michael Voris responded to my email, which was a copy of my post #91. He stated that he doesn’t have time for a full reply, as he was heading on a trip, but he expressed the intent to respond.

Personally, I really appreciated his response. I fully admit to skepticism of his comments about Catholic media, but I really respect that he went out of his way to reply to a completely random person.

Prayers his way for a safe trip, and hope I get the chance to hear from him when he gets back.

 

[Credo111]

Just wanted to share with you all that Michael Voris responded to my email, which was a copy of my post #91. He stated that he doesn’t have time for a full reply, as he was heading on a trip, but he expressed the intent to respond.

Personally, I really appreciated his response. I fully admit to skepticism of his comments about Catholic media, but I really respect that he went out of his way to reply to a completely random person.

Prayers his way for a safe trip, and hope I get the chance to hear from him when he gets back.

He’s on his way to Rome for the Sacra Liturgia conference.

I’m glad you wrote him!

 

[pnewton]

Way to caricature MV. Yet more scoffing and burying heads in the sand. As for me, I’ll take Pope Francis at his word when he acknowledged the existence of a “gay lobby” in the Vatican that seeks to undermine the Church from within…

I think this has been very overblown. You sure won’t find it on an official site. It appears to be a private remark that might not have referred to clergy at all. It may also be an exaggeration for all we know. Popes are allowed to talk in private. I hear that are even allowed to tell jokes and laugh.

FYI - I do not doubt the existence of gay lobbyist in most developed countries.

 

[pnewton]

I found this:
rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2013/06/pope-to-latin-american-religious-full.html
The “gay lobby” is mentioned, and it is true, it is there… We need to see what we can do…The reform of the Roman Curia is something that almost all Cardinals asked for in the Congregations preceding the Conclave

So here is the context, any “gay lobby” is something that almost all the Cardinals opposed. It is great that the Church is so solid! Maybe this is why it wasn’t such a big need for EWTN and other to report it. It was a private remark, the term used in quotes, and something that the College of Cardinals is in unity against.

I would encourage us all rather than wringing our hands with anger that we follow the Holy Father’s advice from the article.

Enjoy this moment that we live in the Congregation for Consecrated Life… It is a moment of sunshine… Enjoy.

If I am going to have my “head in the sand”, at least I have good company.

 

[Credo111]

Havard–by the way, please be sure to follow up with MV when he returns after July 1st. He gets hundreds of e-mails and is always on the go, so remind him of your exchange.

In fact, if you really want an actual discussion with him, I suggest making a phone appointment via Bridget Gallagher (bridgetgallagher@churchmilitant.tv). That way he will be sure to set aside time from his busy schedule to talk to you by phone.
Christine

 

[Used2beSherryG]

It’s funny that you mentioned Raymond Arroyo, because I personally think he avoids even sharing his own opinion on most anything. He has guests do that. It is funny because I dislike Raymond for not reporting on the issues that Voris does. It all goes back to what you think is serious or not. This is the big fight inside the Church.

It reminds me of when I attempted to bring to my priest’s attention the fact that EM’s were leaving hosts on the ground and was quietly dismissed.

At the same time I brought to my daughter’s public school’s principle’s attention the fact that her teacher introduced a ouija board into the class. He was on the case instantly and I had the teacher leaving my messages daily that she was sorry and this would never happen again. This is a secular school. You see the contrast. I don’t beat up on the principle anymore because he did the right thing and rectified the problem.

Voris and people who support Voris simply want the Bishops to do the right thing.

I agree totally with your point about Voris. He loves the church and that is plain to see if you follow him. He speaks up when others are silent. He called attention to the Gay lobby in the Vatican. A couple weeks later, a story leaked about a conference Pope Francis had with visitors from Latin America where he made the same comment and has appointed some he trusts to get all the facts together so it can be cleared up. I hate hearing these stories about the church hierarchy, but the truth will set us free. We found that out the hard way, didn’t we?We need Michael voris at this time in church history. We all love the church, we all want these scandals behind us, but the only way this can happen is to deal with it, not minimize it by saying things like “it’s just a small percentage”. pray for the clergy, yes. But find the bad apples and get them out of the barrel!

 

[pnewton]

… not minimize it by saying things like “it’s just a small percentage”. pray for the clergy, yes. But find the bad apples and get them out of the barrel!

I do not think anyone has suggested that even a small percentage of evil should be tolerated, only that it may not be newsworthy. At the very least, a Catholic news group should be able to view it that way without them being assigned negative motives for such decisions.

He loves the church and that is plain to see if you follow him.

In an earlier post, Credo made it a point that this thread should not be about Mr. Voris. I think the point was valid, but if it is not about him, then it should not be about him. Statements like this might validate rebutal. It is inconsistent to say that others should not make personal comments about him, while making all sorts of personal comments about him. If one would look back over this page and count the number of personal comments about him, not this video, it is mostly a one-sided issue.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Does that mean that you don’t know who these bishops are?

One is the recently retired bishop of Lincoln, Nebraska, where the seminary is bursting at the seams and the TLM is flourishing (the FSSP seminary is headquartered there).

The other is the Supreme Prefect of the Apostolic Signatura, the chief canonist of the Catholic Church on the highest Court in the Church, best known for his ardent promotion of applying Canon 915, and his love of the TLM.

Michael is actually in Rome now and is scheduled to meet with Cdl. Burke during his visit–as he always does when he visits Rome.

I’m friends with the good people at CMTV, so this is how I know this. But you don’t have to take my word for it.

You are more than welcome to check out Bp. Bruskewitz’s personal video endorsement of Michael & his apostolate on the ChurchMilitant.TV website, or see Cdl. Burke personally visiting his studio and giving it his blessing, which is easily found on YouTube.
Christine

Thanks for the reply, Christine. I apologise for my abrasive tone…

I am familiar with the names of both these bishops and with their history, roughly, but not their exact appointments. I accept that they are men of very good reputation and thus that their approval is something of value.

When I said that I didn’t google before posting I meant that I didn’t go searching for anything in relation to these names and Michael Voris which might prove or disprove my statement.

This statement of yours is specific and strong…

…
And he’s got the support and encouragement of solid champions of orthodoxy like Cdl. Raymond Burke and Bp. Fabian Bruskewitz, among others, who agree that what he says is on target and needs to be said.
…

I watched two parts (of 5) of MV’s interview with Bp Bruskewitz on youtube and all I saw was some discussion by Bruskewitz on the place of orthodoxy and the episcopacy in the Church, and also the role of the laity in correcting clerics. Bp Bruskewitz was answering MV’s questions, agreeably. By granting the interview the bishop was obviously giving some approval to MV, but I saw nothing which could be construed as authoritative “support and encouragement” or agreeing that “what he that what he says is on target and needs to be said.”. I especially note your present tense, ie. “he’s got” and “agree that what he says”. The interview was posted to RCTV in October 2011, and presumably made some time earlier, which was before MV’s public problems with two other bishops (starting in December 2011).

I am glad that MV is having discussions with Cdl Burk, but again that does not support your original claim. Some brief searching on MV and Burk only found MV endorsing Burk, but not the other way round. I’ll accept the Burk once visited and blessed MV’s studio, but,again, that is not explicit endorsement of MV’s messages, and, I expect, it is not current, but rather prior to December 2011.

Your original claim could be very helpful endorsement for MV, if it were verifiable and current. I don’t believe that it is either.

 

[Credo111]

Thanks for the reply, Christine. I apologise for my abrasive tone…

I am familiar with the names of both these bishops and with their history, roughly, but not their exact appointments. I accept that they are men of very good reputation and thus that their approval is something of value.

When I said that I didn’t google before posting I meant that I didn’t go searching for anything in relation to these names and Michael Voris which might prove or disprove my statement.

This statement of yours is specific and strong…

I watched two parts (of 5) of MV’s interview with Bp Bruskewitz on youtube and all I saw was some discussion by Bruskewitz on the place of orthodoxy and the episcopacy in the Church, and also the role of the laity in correcting clerics. Bp Bruskewitz was answering MV’s questions, agreeably. By granting the interview the bishop was obviously giving some approval to MV, but I saw nothing which could be construed as authoritative “support and encouragement” or agreeing that “what he that what he says is on target and needs to be said.”. I especially note your present tense, ie. “he’s got” and “agree that what he says”. The interview was posted to RCTV in October 2011, and presumably made some time earlier, which was before MV’s public problems with two other bishops (starting in December 2011).

I am glad that MV is having discussions with Cdl Burk, but again that does not support your original claim. Some brief searching on MV and Burk only found MV endorsing Burk, but not the other way round. I’ll accept the Burk once visited and blessed MV’s studio, but,again, that is not explicit endorsement of MV’s messages, and, I expect, it is not current, but rather prior to December 2011.

Your original claim could be very helpful endorsement for MV, if it were verifiable and current. I don’t believe that it is either.

Bp. Bruskewitz specifically has a video endorsing Michael’s work and his apostolate. It is part of the interview, but it runs as a separate piece on CMTV. Either you missed it, or you didn’t find it. But it’s there.

As to the rest, you are essentially calling me and Voris a liar. Thanks for the Christian charity.

 

[Edmundus1581]

Bp. Bruskewitz specifically has a video endorsing Michael’s work and his apostolate. It is part of the interview, but it runs as a separate piece on CMTV. Either you missed it, or you didn’t find it. But it’s there.

As to the rest, you are essentially calling me and Voris a liar. Thanks for the Christian charity.

Again, I apologise for my initial abrasive tone. I am not calling you a liar and apologise for anything which might suggest that. In my follow up comments I addressed specifically the strong claim which you introduced and the sources you provided. I think it reasonable that if you post such a claim your readers look at the sources, as there can be different interpretations of the same words, and, also, one can, in the course of a discussion, make a broad assertion in good faith, but which does not stand up to scrutiny in it’s specifics.

 

[Prodigal_40s]

One of the issues that Michael has highlighted that causes me concern is the charitable donations that parishes contribute have found their way into the funds of certain organisations that are not only contrary to church teaching but are vehemently opposed to it!!

He provided evidence on this as well so as far as “not liking” Micheal Voris goes, focus on this as well as the forum topic story and what he’s actually uncovered. This forum story could be one that will get bigger as time goes on

 

[Gidge]

Wow, this thread has been sanitized; I guess there were too many folks supporting Michael Voris here (I am one of them).

 

[jking1962]

Yeah, what happened?

For years, the sex scandal was left unabated because of unawareness. After all, isn’t awareness the point of reporting? When you get enough people fed up with the corruption then there is more pressure and prayer applied to those in power to fix it. Again the assumption is that the reason these ills are chronic is because the leadership is failing to do the job.

The point is not to continually beat up Bishops because they are not perfect but to clean up serious corruption. Again this assumes serious problems in the Church.

You are correct that we never have the whole picture, but nobody does except God. I can see the “don’t judge” coming out here. The “don’t judge” as Jesus taught is about not judging someone motives. We can already judge an intrinsically wrong action. The bible also teaches about rebuking your brother.

To what end? This again rings loudly to the lack of seriousness that we consider problems. We have been so used to mediocrity that we accept the fact that too many priests are effeminate and have no backbone, we accept the fact that our Lord is disrespected every week in our parishes. It has become business as usual.

To what end? So when we see genocide in another country, should we say to what end? Heck even social justice Catholics will want to do something.

This issues in the Church are even more serious because it is about the salvation of souls.

Negative responses directed toward Voris continually imply that these problems are just a natural part of the human condition and whining about them is futile.