Michael Voris: Weapons of 'MASS' Destruction

[MarkThompson]

I thought Voris and the Priest did a fantastic job. They presented the information clearly and powerfully.

All of this is the first I have heard of Protestants being invited to “observe” the proceedings of Vatican II. The accusations of 6 Protestants supposedly masterminding the Reform with Bugnini are plain astounding to me. (I know Voris didn’t go into this aspect.) Does anyone here know why Protestants would be involved in any capacity whatsoever? Even as “guests” or “observers”? I don’t get it.

I think it was to keep the tradition of the Council of Trent, to which lots of Protestants were invited.

 

[Ockham]

Protestants may have been invited to Trent, but did they have any affect? The Novus Ordo certainly has a Protestant modification to the tradtitional Catholic liturgy.

Michael Voris is a modern day evangelist. He’s on the path to sainthood.

 

[MarkThompson]

Protestants may have been invited to Trent, but did they have any affect? The Novus Ordo certainly has a Protestant modification to the tradtitional Catholic liturgy.

Ockham, it may surprise you to learn that, actually, the modern form of the Mass was not produced at Vatican II. I can recommend some sources where you could learn more about the history of these things, if you’d like.

 

[Ockham]

To the best of my knowledge, V2 never called for a new Mass. I’d be interested to see your sources though. Here’s a good one: realcatholictv.com/cia/03Massdest/index.php

 

[MarkThompson]

To the best of my knowledge, V2 never called for a new Mass. I’d be interested to see your sources though. Here’s a good one: realcatholictv.com/cia/03Massdest/index.php

So “V2” never called for a new Mass, yet you see the hand of the Protestant observers who were at the Council in the new form of the rite which was promulgated years later? I’m trying to figure out whether your criticisms here could possibly have any basis.

You’re certainly correct, of course, that the Council did not call for a “new Mass,” and indeed the Mass of Paul VI is not a new Mass – it’s a new form of the eternal Mass. As to whether the Council called for the form of the Mass to be revised, they clearly prescribed that “[t]he liturgical books are to be revised as soon as possible; experts are to be employed on the task, and bishops are to be consulted, from various parts of the world.”

 

[archangel04]

Ok, so this is the thread that at least for now is not calling him Jack Chick…

I loved it. Really liked the priest Fr. Paul Nicholson and thought it was very thought provoking material. And correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t he offer all the documentation that went into the production on the website? Not documenting sources seems to be a major beef amongst those in opposition to what he reported-on the other threads.

I think one of the most interesting ideas was how the Liturgy has become emasculated in the last 40-50 years. Ya know, I think there’s a valid point there…don’t get all feminism militant on me here…But, as a mother of only sons I can see what he’s saying. Lots of the touchy feely, group hug atmosphere we have is very feminine…and largely unappealing to males. I am going to ponder that one and look for some more works on that. Think about what he said about having to be a performer.

And this is going to light a BIG fire…but the feminine agenda has been promoted by a very large presence of not particularly masculine clergy in the last decades…we have some who are so effeminate that I feel like it’s a drag show. And I’m sorry, I know we are to love everyone, but this again is repellent to boys and I really believe it HAS effected the priesthood and male involvement in the Church.

Fr. Paul Nicholson nailed it on the head. The same explanation that he gave about altar girls is the same situation that happen in my parish. For almost 3 years I would be the only person serving for a very well attended mass, before that it was all boys. Then more boys started to show up after my brother joined to be altar-boy. After that my girl cousins joined up as well. At first it started with one, then two, then four. Now at this Mass only girls serve, I haven’t served since '03, but ever since then only girls serve during this mass. A lot of the younger boys that started before I left, left for whatever reason. I have agree with Fr. Paul about how girl altar servers might be discouraging boys from serving, especially if they have to wear the same vestments as them.

 

[archangel04]

I watched the first half and quit. It is same information I have heard before, but it is presented extremely well. Still, I do not not by the Masonic Conspiracy, sneaking in to destroy the Catholic Church, Protestant secret agents or anything else. I will stick with the Holy Father on this.

There were no use of cartoon satirization, so this is not like Jack Chick. I am very pleased that the Tridentine Mass is much more available for those who want it.

I think you should have seen the 2nd part, yes I think most of us on this forum knew about these things on the first part, but the second part blew me away.

 

[centurionguard]

I watched the first half and quit. It is same information I have heard before, but it is presented extremely well. Still, I do not not by the Masonic Conspiracy, sneaking in to destroy the Catholic Church, Protestant secret agents or anything else. I will stick with the Holy Father on this.

There were no use of cartoon satirization, so this is not like Jack Chick. I am very pleased that the Tridentine Mass is much more available for those who want it.

Still, I do not not by the Masonic Conspiracy, sneaking in to destroy the Catholic Church

Conspiracy or not are you saying that high ranking Masons are not driven in trying to destroy the Catholic Church from the inside out?

I think their is overwhelming evidence…(and not all conjecture) that would presuppose a very strong hypothesis that Masons are heavily entrenched in trying to destroy the Church. Satan’s minions come hidden in many forms like devouring wolves in sheep’s clothing.

 

[pnewton]

Conspiracy or not are you saying that high ranking Masons are not driven in trying to destroy the Catholic Church from the inside out?

That *would *be a conspiracy and no, I do not believe it any more than I buy the DaVinci Code or the Illuminati.

 

[Ockham]

So “V2” never called for a new Mass, yet you see the hand of the Protestant observers who were at the Council in the new form of the rite which was promulgated years later? I’m trying to figure out whether your criticisms here could possibly have any basis.

You’re certainly correct, of course, that the Council did not call for a “new Mass,” and indeed the Mass of Paul VI is not a new Mass – it’s a new form of the eternal Mass. As to whether the Council called for the form of the Mass to be revised, they clearly prescribed that “[t]he liturgical books are to be revised as soon as possible; experts are to be employed on the task, and bishops are to be consulted, from various parts of the world.”

I realize you are the self-appointed editor or proof reader of this forum, but do you really need to nit-pick as to the time line of the Vatican II changes?

Many people see Protestant elements in the Novus Ordo. Go debate them.

The OF and the EF are very different liturgies. To play the party line that they are two forms of the same Mass is superficial. The OF is closer to an Anglican high church or old Lutheran service than the Mass which defined Catholicism for 1500 years.

Did you watch the videos? Email Mr. Voris your objections if any.

 

[centurionguard]

That *would *be a conspiracy and no, I do not believe it any more than I buy the DaVinci Code or the Illuminati.

Well I never believed in the DaVinci Code garbage either.
The Illuminati are just another faction of the Masons themselves

 

[Ockham]

If the Masonic threat isn’t real then why have so many popes written about it?

If the threat is real then why do so many people assume it is ineffective?

Why is it so hard to believe Masons have infiltrated our Church? Soviets infiltrated the Pentagon.

Compare a Masonic lodge to a Novus Ordo sanctuary or Protestant worship center. There is a clear similarity between them and distinction to a pre-V2 Catholic Church.

 

[pnewton]

If the Masonic threat isn’t real then why have so many popes written about it?

I did not say that the Masonic threat is real. They have many dangerous ideas that have been condemned. It is this specific subtrefuge I do not believe to be a masonic conspiracy.

Compare a Masonic lodge to a Novus Ordo sanctuary or Protestant worship center. There is a clear similarity between them and distinction to a pre-V2 Catholic Church.

Now this is a classic Jack Chick tactic, or more specifically, Alexander Hislop. He found comparisons between too dispargent ideas and drew the conclusion that a relationship had to exist. He did that with, obelisks, IHS, vestments, etc.

 

[Ockham]

Now this is a classic Jack Chick tactic, or more specifically, Alexander Hislop. He found comparisons between too dispargent ideas and drew the conclusion that a relationship had to exist. He did that with, obelisks, IHS, vestments, etc.

I’m no expert, but looking at pictures of a Masonic Lodge and a Novus Ordo Sanctuary I see a distinct similarity that does not exist with pre-V2 Churches.

 

[KingTheoden]

I’m no expert, but looking at pictures of a Masonic Lodge and a Novus Ordo Sanctuary I see a distinct similarity that does not exist with pre-V2 Churches.

You see a similarity because there is one.

The fact is that newer churches, for the most part, are sterile and clearly lack the feel of what we think of when we think of ‘house of God.’

Some progressive parishes look nearly identical to Masonic lodges. This is just the cold fact of the matter, PNewton.

 

[The_Reginator]

This is a good article - “The Emasculation of the Priesthood”:

latinmassmagazine.com/articles/articles_emasculation.html

That is an excellent article.
I have a paper copy of it (somewhere) and I think the link is bookmarked … somewhere on the computer. (Too many bookmarks.)

 

[The_Reginator]

Are these topics ‘politically incorrect’ on some forums?
(Or maybe people get too nasty in looking at the OF in a critical way. Maybe?)

 

[archangel04]

Are these topics ‘politically incorrect’ on some forums?
(Or maybe people get too nasty in looking at the OF in a critical way. Maybe?)

I think you are correct about the politically incorrect view. This topic has been locked and even removed before this one popped up. RCTV is not looked favorably my many members on here, I can’t speak for the forum its self.

 

[zz912]

After watching the two videos, my thoughts were on how this relates to the Church’s infallibility? Was the problem in Vatican II, or in the interpretation of the documents?

 

[archangel04]

After watching the two videos, my thoughts were on how this relates to the Church’s infallibility? Was the problem in Vatican II, or in the interpretation of the documents?

Most people agree that it was the interpretation of the documents. No where in the documents does it call for some of the things we now see in mass. But it wasn’t just V2 that could have influence people from leaving the faith, but much has to do with the times and society its self.