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MarkThompson
Guest
Well, there’s Post #2 of this thread: “Tremendous presentation. This is information every Catholic must know.”
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JReducation
Guest
The manner in which you’re speaking to me is not the same manner in which I’m speaking to you. You’re challenging me for no apparent reason. If you don’t have a reason, then I respectfully request that you back off, now.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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lizaanne
Guest
Chill out guys - this isn’t the bar, no one needs to step outside. 
Everyone has opinions - this is a “discussion” forum, it’s where people discuss. No need to get all personal about it.
Because if you do, the thread gets locked, and that would be unfortunate for those who do have something to say.
~Liza
Everyone has opinions - this is a “discussion” forum, it’s where people discuss. No need to get all personal about it.
Because if you do, the thread gets locked, and that would be unfortunate for those who do have something to say.
~Liza
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Ockham
Guest
Dear Brother,The manner in which you’re speaking to me is not the same manner in which I’m speaking to you. You’re challenging me for no apparent reason. If you don’t have a reason, then I respectfully request that you back off, now.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
You have made several accusations towards Mr. Michael Voris. Could you please explain your motivation?
Sincerely,
Ockham
Peace
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JReducation
Guest
That’s a very good example. I have never been to a Council or anything that high, though I would love to. But I have been a chapters of my own order. We’re reasonably educated men and with common sense and very orthodox. I can tell you that sometimes at these chapters the conversation goes so far that after a while you don’t know what you were talking about. When you get a bunch of thinkers into a room and you ask them a question, you may get a flood of answers. Then each answer has a rebuttal. Now you have one question, 50 answers, and 400 rebuttals. It’s almost funny, because you want to shout, “Will someone turn on the light so that we can see what we were talking about!”
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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Ockham
Guest
Mark, I do admire your attention to detail.
Actually, it is information every Catholic should know. What the dear brother is insinuating is to ignore Michael Voris and I don’t think that is in the Church’s best interests. If someone doesn’t like Mr. Voris’ style or content then that person should take the high road and avoid him and debates like these.
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JReducation
Guest
I have not made any accusations. I pointed out some areas that I believe would improve his work. I sincerely believe that they would.
I have not disagreed with any of his points. My motiviation, if you can call it that is to say that his delivery often sounds as if he’s out to pick a fight.
His videos would be better if he brought voices in other than his own. It’s good that he has an opinion. But it’s also fair to say that he’s not an expert on everything he says. There are many out there.
I was comparing him to someone like Raymond Arroyo who also does Catholic journalism or to our own apologists on Catholic Answers. If you observe them, they do not come across as angry or picking a fight. Mr. Arroyo asks hard questions, but he has the subject there to answer the questions. He doesn’t raise the question and not have the person with the anwer in front of him.
Our apologists on CA are recognized as being authorized to speak on these matters. They often give you references for you to follow. If you listen to CA radio, they do a lot of interviews.
In fact, I said that Mr. Voris videos are not consistent with his organization, which I said has some very good material, scroll up and you’ll see that. If you go to St. Michael’s site, the flavor is not antagonisitic. If you watch the videos, the tone is antagonistic.
Whenever you set out to point to a failure or a weakness, but you do so in a manner where you cannot be asked questions or no one can chime in, it does not come out well. Those who think like you will agree and those who do not think like you will not be persuaded, because they don’t get to hear their side being presented. When you have the back and forth volley, you have a much greater chance of making some converts to your position and you don’t look as if you’re looking for a fight.
As to the fact that he never has any guests on his videos, that’s not an accusation. That’s the way that his videos are cut. It’s just him talking and no one asks or answers anything that he says. It’s a message, not a real learning experience.
I also pointed out that this is a man with great skills in the world of media. I don’t understand why they are not used for this ministry. It may be financial or other. I wrote them and asked, but I got back a nice thank you note for caring and watching our videos. It’s not my organization, so I can’t improve it. But it’s a shame, because it has potential.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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Stylites
Guest
What accusations? That Mr. Voris is not a licensed theologian? That people don’t have to follow a layman’s opinions as if they are Gospel? That his productions are not well-balanced or well-researched? These are not accusations, but truths.
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estesbob
Guest
Why should anyone care what he says about the Mass?
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RosaryCrusader
Guest
JR,
I understand that the content presented by Michael Voris is probably disagreeable to you but it appears you’re trying to discredit him based upon his lacking an official office or mandate in his Diocese. Evidently he has some credentials but to the best of my knowledge he has never leaned on these to bolster his opinion - he’s always presented himself merely as a layman. Nor do I think he needs to have any credentials when all he’s done is summarize the well researched work of people who do have credentials (and outstanding ones at that) and have provided a wealth of information on the subject such as Dietrich VonHildebrand, Romano Amerio, Cardinal Ratzinger, Fr. Ralph M. Wiltgen, Martin Mosebach, Michael Davies, Msgr. Brunero Gherardini - to name a few.
Let’s not shoot the messenger.
I understand that the content presented by Michael Voris is probably disagreeable to you but it appears you’re trying to discredit him based upon his lacking an official office or mandate in his Diocese. Evidently he has some credentials but to the best of my knowledge he has never leaned on these to bolster his opinion - he’s always presented himself merely as a layman. Nor do I think he needs to have any credentials when all he’s done is summarize the well researched work of people who do have credentials (and outstanding ones at that) and have provided a wealth of information on the subject such as Dietrich VonHildebrand, Romano Amerio, Cardinal Ratzinger, Fr. Ralph M. Wiltgen, Martin Mosebach, Michael Davies, Msgr. Brunero Gherardini - to name a few.
Let’s not shoot the messenger.
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Ockham
Guest
Dear Brother,I have not made any accusations. I pointed out some areas that I believe would improve his work. I sincerely believe that they would.
I have not disagreed with any of his points. My motiviation, if you can call it that is to say that his delivery often sounds as if he’s out to pick a fight.
His videos would be better if he brought voices in other than his own. It’s good that he has an opinion. But it’s also fair to say that he’s not an expert on everything he says. There are many out there.
I was comparing him to someone like Raymond Arroyo who also does Catholic journalism or to our own apologists on Catholic Answers. If you observe them, they do not come across as angry or picking a fight. Mr. Arroyo asks hard questions, but he has the subject there to answer the questions. He doesn’t raise the question and not have the person with the anwer in front of him.
Our apologists on CA are recognized as being authorized to speak on these matters. They often give you references for you to follow. If you listen to CA radio, they do a lot of interviews.
In fact, I said that Mr. Voris videos are not consistent with his organization, which I said has some very good material, scroll up and you’ll see that. If you go to St. Michael’s site, the flavor is not antagonisitic. If you watch the videos, the tone is antagonistic.
Whenever you set out to point to a failure or a weakness, but you do so in a manner where you cannot be asked questions or no one can chime in, it does not come out well. Those who think like you will agree and those who do not think like you will not be persuaded, because they don’t get to hear their side being presented. When you have the back and forth volley, you have a much greater chance of making some converts to your position and you don’t look as if you’re looking for a fight.
As to the fact that he never has any guests on his videos, that’s not an accusation. That’s the way that his videos are cut. It’s just him talking and no one asks or answers anything that he says. It’s a message, not a real learning experience.
I also pointed out that this is a man with great skills in the world of media. I don’t understand why they are not used for this ministry. It may be financial or other. I wrote them and asked, but I got back a nice thank you note for caring and watching our videos. It’s not my organization, so I can’t improve it. But it’s a shame, because it has potential.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
Thank you for your expected thorough reply. You have made your objections and criticisms to Mr. Voris’ production quite clear. Perhaps in the spirit of Charity you should contact him directly. Members on this forum are of course free to listen to whoever they choose. Perhaps in your role as a Brother some people may wrongly conclude the Church is ordering them to ignore Mr. Voris. Regardless,your points have been duly noted.
Sincerely,
Ockham
Peace
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PJR
Guest
I think the problem seems to be the interpretation of the documents. I don’t think Voris is saying the council was bogus or anything heretical like that. I think he just brings up a valid point that there may have been an agenda pushing “some” of the Norvus Ordo or at least how it was interpreted and implemented.
For instance…were the drastic change to our churches part of the documents or just a poor interpretation of the what the changes were?
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ProVobis
Guest
I would say it’s a little bit of a stretch on the truth part. There’s no objectivity to the well-balanced and well-researched part either.
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JReducation
Guest
You misunderstand me then. I have no objection to the content. I have a problem with the lack of discussion on his videos. They are his comments. Even when he says that he has researched, which I have no reason to doubt him, it is better to have the person than to hear what you understood. So, I compared him to someone like Raymond Arroyo who speaks about the same issues as Michael Voris, but has the subject there to answer and to volley with.
When you hear the two go back and forth, you come away with a much clearer picture.
As far as a mandate from his diocese, I never said that they don’t know about him. Someone asked what do you need to be a theologian and I said that you need a mandatum. This was a response to someone’s question.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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