M
maryj
Guest
So God only created the Angels for Himself??? Come now!!
the other poster had asked for you to provide the passage that exhorts the Christian to own his own bible.There is no verse or passage that a Christian is ever exhorted or taught to pray to Mary, an angel or someone who has died. All prayers are to be only to God and never to a created being.
Indeed. There are actually a few examples of inspired prayers addressed specifically to angels in the Bible:
Is the psalmist praying to angels here or is he making statements about what angels should do? Is he speaking literally or figuratively? Go on to verse 22. How are the “works of His” to praise Him?Bless the LORD, O you his angels, you mighty ones who do his word, hearkening to the voice of his word! (Psalm 103:21 RSV)
Again the same kind of question. If you read verse 3 for example, is the sun and moon to praise Him?SIZE=2]Praise him, all his angels, praise him, all his host! (Psalm 148:2 RSV)
SIZE=2]Angels of the Lord, bless the Lord, praise and exalt him above all forever. (Daniel 3:58 NAB)
I don’t have a verse 58. Did you mean 3:28?
The problem is that these verses don’t teach anything about praying to angels. If anything, these are figures of speech and not meant to be taken literallyIf angels can be collectively addressed in prayer, as indicated above, there is no reason to suppose that they cannot similarly be addressed in prayer individually by name
http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/misc/progress.gif[/RIGHT]
the other poster had asked for you to provide the passage that exhorts the Christian to own his own bible.
i would add to that, please show the verse that exhorts the individual Christian to interpret the words contained (or not contained therein) for doctrine rather than listening to Church authority.
(cont)one last question:
Do you think Peter, James, and John, had they conversed with Moses and Elijah on Mount Tabor, would have been chastised by Jesus? Do you think it is possible that they in fact did converse with them? Perhaps that is how they realized that it was in fact Moses and Elijah? (else how would they have known it was Moses and Elijah outside of another revelation by God)
If God does not want us to pray to those in Heavenly glory, why did Jesus, in a sense, provide the “temptation” to do so ?(remember Moses and Elijah were heroes and saints to the Apostles, men they really looked up to growing up as young jews no doubt learning the Scriptures)
is it explicit? no
does it make me wonder? i should think so.![]()
Your contention that angels should not be addressed directly is clearly contrary to the Bible verses I mentioned earlier; even fallen angels are addressed directly in the Bible:Is the psalmist praying to angels here or is he making statements about what angels should do? Is he speaking literally or figuratively? Go on to verse 22. How are the “works of His” to praise Him?
Daniel 3:58 is a deuterocanonical verse found in the ancient Greek Septuagint favored by the first Christians but lacking in modern Hebrew Bibles and the Protestant Bibles that follow the modern Hebrew.I don’t have a verse 58. Did you mean 3:28?
This is an interesting but unfounded personal interpretation.The problem is that these verses don’t teach anything about praying to angels. If anything, these are figures of speech and not meant to be taken literally
Your contention that angels should not be addressed directly is clearly contrary to the Bible verses I mentioned earlier; even fallen angels are addressed directly in the Bible:
But Paul was annoyed, and turned and said to the spirit, “I charge you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her.” And it came out that very hour. (Acts 16:18)
Demons do exist but Paul is not praying to one here either but rebuking it. This has nothing to do with praying to angels as taught by your church.
What are you referring to here?Do not be surprised that even the irrational works of God are addressed directly. Jesus said:
Actually 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says the Scriptures are profitable not “adequate” or sufficient. BIG difference.The scriptures do teach that they are adequate for us. See 2 Timothy 3:16-17. The Scriptures never appeal to traditions that can do make us also adequate and equiped as the Scriptures do.
Nope. But *where does the Bible say *everything that Christians do have to come from the Bible or other inspired or inerrant source? Just show me and I’ll be happy.Do [you] claim and believe that the doctrines, traditions and practices are inspired and inerrant?
Already addressed the false claim for for the first verse. Similarly, Ps 119 and Heb 4:12 say nothing about the sufficiency of Scriptures or that they are meant to be a comprehensive compendium of the Faith.See 2 Timothy 3:16-17. You also may want to read Psalm 119 and Hebrews 4:12 that shows the power and authority of the Scriptures.
I don’t know how many times I can’t repeat this without you addressing it, but here it is again:Remember its your church that is making the claim that it right to pray to angels and the like. Since the Scriptures never teach such a thing, you must turn to what men teach without any grounding in the Scriptures.
Me too!hope this helps
What Scriptures where being referred to.? I know it states all scriptures but as you know he was referring to the old testament.This came through my email but i don’t see it on the forumm. Here is my response.
The scriptures do teach that they are adequate for us. See 2 Timothy 3:16-17. The Scripotures never appeal to traditions that can do make us also adequate and equiped as the Scriptures do.
Do claim and believe that the doctrines, traditions and practices are inspired and inerrant?
See 2 Timothy 3:16-17. You also may want to read Psalm 119 and Hebrews 4:12 that shows the power and authority of the Scriptures.
hope this helps
The communion of saints is hard for some to understand.Why do Catholics pray to the archangel Michael? From what I have read about Michael he is the protector of Israel … not a personal Rambo to be used at everyones beck and call.
But all this it seemed well for the Saviour to do; that since men had failed to know His Providence, revealed in the Universe, and had failed to perceive His Godhead shown in creation, they might at any rate from the works of His body recover their sight, and through Him receive an idea of the knowledge of the Father, inferring, as I said before, from particular cases His Providence over the whole. For who that saw His power over evil spirits, or who that saw the evil spirits confess that He was their Lord, will hold his mind any longer in doubt whether this be the Son and Wisdom and Power of God? For He made even the creation break silence: in that even at His death, marvellous to relate, or rather at His actual trophy over death—the Cross I mean—all creation was confessing that He that was made manifest and suffered in the body was not man merely, but the Son of God and Saviour of all. For the sun hid His face, and the earth quaked and the mountains were rent: all men were awed. Now these things showed that Christ on the Cross was God, while all creation was His slave, and was witnessing by its fear to its Master’s presence. Thus, then, God the Word showed Himself to men by His works. (De Incarnatione, Athanasius, 19)Is the psalmist praying to angels here or is he making statements about what angels should do? Is he speaking literally or figuratively? Go on to verse 22. How are the “works of His” to praise Him?
Again the same kind of question. If you read verse 3 for example, is the sun and moon to praise Him?
Saint Michael is the protector of the Church of Christ, which is the Catholic Church.Why do Catholics pray to the archangel Michael? From what I have read about Michael he is the protector of Israel … not a personal Rambo to be used at everyones beck and call.