Michele Bachmann signed marriage pact suggesting black families were better off during slavery

[ringil]

That is insulting and shows a lack of knowledge. Boston schools were only desegregated in the 1980s and with much resistance. I’m pretty sure Blacks in Chicago complain about racism there.

Corrected: Schools in SOUTH Boston were brought under the bussing program. THey were not segregated, blacks just didn’t live in SOUTH Boston.

In case you didn’t know South Boston is very different than the rest of the Boston area. I worked there- I should know. The only racist comments I ever heard while living in Boston were in South Boston.

I’m sorry you have strong feelings about reconstruction. I’m sorry it wasn’t carried on further. I guess it’s too bad that slave masters property was taken eh. Too bad that SLAVES were given land eh?

Oh, I’ve met plenty of folks with your opinions down here in NC. My Mother in Law is one of them, flying their little flags of days gone by. . . . .

I’m just thankful my family will be moving to New York STate in a month, getting away from this drivel. You and those with your views are holding the South back. It is changing though- I hope my daughter never has to hear any of this when she grows up.

 

[Zhenia]

So-called “reconstruction” was horrible, and is a major reason why there is still animosity between the North and South today.

Free blacks were allowed to do whatever they wanted to Southern whites; Southerners had their land and posessions stolen from them, their farm animals killed…in some ways “reconstruction” still goes on today. Why is it that jokes against white Southerners are still considered acceptable in many circles?

Incidentally, to those who like to accuse Southerners of “racism”, I recently read an article in the NY Times which said that large numbers of blacks are relocating to the South because they find it to be far less racist than the North!

Zhenia
Pennsylvanian born and bred
Proud to be a Northern Copperhead!

 

[bbarrick8383]

I wrote “War of Northern Aggression” as that is the stupidity passed around the South.

I am in NC and folks around here refer to Lincoln as “mr.” Lincoln. Black folks would cringe to hear the CR$% I hear in the sauna at my local YMCA when no black folks are in there. Everyone goes quiet when a minority comes in, and racism is dead? It’s freaking EVERYWHERE! If you folks in the South say you don’t hear it you are being dishonest.

And you should hear what they say when you aren’t around.

One does not justify the other, but blacks talking about whites and whites talking about blacks and Hispanics talking about both of us and Asians talking about all of us is pretty normal in their own circles. I cant imagine what the Chinese say behind our backs.

 

[ringil]

And you should hear what they say when you aren’t around.

One does not justify the other, but blacks talking about whites and whites talking about blacks and Hispanics talking about both of us and Asians talking about all of us is pretty normal in their own circles. I cant imagine what the Chinese say behind our backs.

Well I never heard this type of talk while living in Boston. I did hear some of it in South Boston but nothing compared to NC or to Richmond where I was born and raised.

I will say that racism is fairly uniform over the US but that it is more OVERT in the South.

 

[Brendan]

Harpers Ferry was Virginia property, like Sumter…

South Carolina ceded all right and title to the land Ft. Sumpter was build on to the Federal Government in 1837.

They had no legal or moral right to attempt to lay claim to it.

Legally, it was in the same category as the US Naval Base in Guantanamo Bay (actually more so, since the US only has a lease on the property, the Federal Government had full right at title to Ft. Sumpter.

Article I Section 8 of the US Constitution

“Congress shall have the Power …. To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards and other needful Buildings.”

And here is the Legislation passed by the Government of the State of South Carolina

    "The Committee on Federal relations, to which was referred the Governor's message, relating to the site of Fort Sumter, in the harbour of Charleston, and the report of the Committee on Federal Relations from the Senate on the same subject, beg leave to Report by Resolution:

    "**Resolved, That this state do cede to the United States, all the right, title and claim of South Carolina to the site of Fort Sumter and the requisite quantity of adjacent territory**, Provided, That all processes, civil and criminal issued under the authority of this State, or any officer thereof, shall and may be served and executed upon the same, and any person there being who may be implicated by law; and that the said land, site and structures enumerated, shall be forever exempt from liability to pay any tax to this state.

So South Carolina had no right at all to lay any claim of ownership to Ft. Sumpter.

 

[bbarrick8383]

Well I never heard this type of talk while living in Boston. I did hear some of it in South Boston but nothing compared to NC or to Richmond where I was born and raised.

I will say that racism is fairly uniform over the US but that it is more OVERT in the South.

Boston, isn’t that where they had some racist remarks said over the PA system in a Wal-Mart?

I lived in Richmond for a few years, one of the most racist men I’ve ever met lived there. I was related to him by marriage, but he’s been dead and gone now for several years. He is the only person whose racist speech reeked of hatred.

Back in college, here in Oklahoma, I watched a crowd of mixed skin color people flip a truck over that had been driving through a parking lot while they were shouting some racist things.

Most racism I see, that’s similar to what you are talking about is aimed at a certain groups of black people. We have black cowboys and country folk that are just as welcome as anyone. In walks the kid with his pants to the ground and your going to hear those same white people say stuff, that may or may not contain racist slurs.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

Well I never heard this type of talk while living in Boston. I did hear some of it in South Boston but nothing compared to NC or to Richmond where I was born and raised.

I will say that racism is fairly uniform over the US but that it is more OVERT in the South.

Give me a break. I am from New England and spent 2 years in Boston and it is one of the most racists cities in America.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

South Carolina ceded all right and title to the land Ft. Sumpter was build on to the Federal Government in 1837.

They had no legal or moral right to attempt to lay claim to it.

Legally, it was in the same category as the US Naval Base in Guantanamo Bay (actually more so, since the US only has a lease on the property, the Federal Government had full right at title to Ft. Sumpter.

Article I Section 8 of the US Constitution

And here is the Legislation passed by the Government of the State of South Carolina

So South Carolina had no right at all to lay any claim of ownership to Ft. Sumpter.

When South Carolina declared its separation from the United States, all contracts with the federal government are considered null and void. That land went back to ownership of the state.

 

[TrueLight]

Although I don’t participate in any of the forums that have to do with politics, I like to look in every now and then.

This is when everyone who is exhibiting Catholic charity in other threads show their true colors and remind us that we are all not brothers and sisters, but that racism is alive and well.

I like these forums because I know just whom I’m dealing with.

 

[bellasbane]

South Carolina ceded all right and title to the land Ft. Sumpter was build on to the Federal Government in 1837.

They had no legal or moral right to attempt to lay claim to it.

Legally, it was in the same category as the US Naval Base in Guantanamo Bay (actually more so, since the US only has a lease on the property, the Federal Government had full right at title to Ft. Sumpter.

Article I Section 8 of the US Constitution

And here is the Legislation passed by the Government of the State of South Carolina

So South Carolina had no right at all to lay any claim of ownership to Ft. Sumpter.

Great history lesson

Thanks.

 

[Darryl1958]

…life unde
This is the second time in this thread, we have had the “happy slave” myth promulgated. it is unbelievable in today’s day and age that people still make that claim.

In whatever ways the North falls short of the ideal of the Christian soldier, and in whatever ways many of the ideals of the South were noble and worthy of maintaining, what remains true is that slavery is ant-American at its core. It violates the fundamental principles of liberty and thereby interferes with an individuals pursuit of happiness,

There can be no happiness in slavery. It violates our human nature. Certainly in the uncertainty of the desert, even the Hebrews imagine life under the pharoah as happier and more secure, but that is an illusion.
One might even say it is the illusion that was entered into after the Civil Rights era of the 1960’s when liberal governments promised to make things right. The oppressed would not have to do anything themselves, because the great pharoah would take care of it all with the welfare state. All needs would be provided for in exchange foraquiescence to a few piddling government rules over ones income, what dolls your children play with, whether or not a man’s underwear was found in your dresser drawers while receiving benefits.

That would have been the focus of the OP declaration, had not people decided to reenact the gievances of the Civil War into our modern lives.

Slavery defies the very meaning of America. It is good that it was ended. The sacrafice of so much blood and lives was worth the victory gained for the American dream for the whole of the American people and not just the elect few.

 

[Tabooo]

In whatever ways the North falls short of the ideal of the Christian soldier, and in whatever ways many of the ideals of the South were noble and worthy of maintaining, what remains true is that slavery is ant-American at its core. It violates the fundamental principles of liberty and thereby interferes with an individuals pursuit of happiness,

There can be no happiness in slavery. It violates our human nature. Certainly in the uncertainty of the desert, even the Hebrews imagine life under the pharoah as happier and more secure, but that is an illusion.
One might even say it is the illusion that was entered into after the Civil Rights era of the 1960’s when liberal governments promised to make things right. The oppressed would not have to do anything themselves, because the great pharoah would take care of it all with the welfare state. All needs would be provided for in exchange foraquiescence to a few piddling government rules over ones income, what dolls your children play with, whether or not a man’s underwear was found in your dresser drawers while receiving benefits.

That would have been the focus of the OP declaration, had not people decided to reenact the gievances of the Civil War into our modern lives.

Slavery defies the very meaning of America. It is good that it was ended. The sacrafice of so much blood and lives was worth the victory gained for the American dream for the whole of the American people and not just the elect few.

You sir, have my vote.

 

[Raskolnikov]

[In whatever ways the North falls short of the ideal of the Christian soldier, and in whatever ways many of the ideals of the South were noble and worthy of maintaining, what remains true is that slavery is ant-American at its core. It violates the fundamental principles of liberty and thereby interferes with an individuals pursuit of happiness,

There can be no happiness in slavery. It violates our human nature. Certainly in the uncertainty of the desert, even the Hebrews imagine life under the pharoah as happier and more secure, but that is an illusion.
One might even say it is the illusion that was entered into after the Civil Rights era of the 1960’s when liberal governments promised to make things right. The oppressed would not have to do anything themselves, because the great pharoah would take care of it all with the welfare state. All needs would be provided for in exchange foraquiescence to a few piddling government rules over ones income, what dolls your children play with, whether or not a man’s underwear was found in your dresser drawers while receiving benefits.

That would have been the focus of the OP declaration, had not people decided to reenact the gievances of the Civil War into our modern lives.

Slavery defies the very meaning of America. It is good that it was ended. The sacrafice of so much blood and lives was worth the victory gained for the American dream for the whole of the American people and not just the elect few.

[/quote]

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

In whatever ways the North falls short of the ideal of the Christian soldier, and in whatever ways many of the ideals of the South were noble and worthy of maintaining, what remains true is that slavery is ant-American at its core. It violates the fundamental principles of liberty and thereby interferes with an individuals pursuit of happiness,

There can be no happiness in slavery. It violates our human nature. Certainly in the uncertainty of the desert, even the Hebrews imagine life under the pharoah as happier and more secure, but that is an illusion.
One might even say it is the illusion that was entered into after the Civil Rights era of the 1960’s when liberal governments promised to make things right. The oppressed would not have to do anything themselves, because the great pharoah would take care of it all with the welfare state. All needs would be provided for in exchange foraquiescence to a few piddling government rules over ones income, what dolls your children play with, whether or not a man’s underwear was found in your dresser drawers while receiving benefits.

That would have been the focus of the OP declaration, had not people decided to reenact the gievances of the Civil War into our modern lives.

Slavery defies the very meaning of America. It is good that it was ended. The sacrafice of so much blood and lives was worth the victory gained for the American dream for the whole of the American people and not just the elect few.

That is my continuing beef with the self-righteous who right on their shiny white horse of moral superiority. The WAY that the “War of the State” was handled, particularly “Reconstruction” didn’t fix or resolve anything. If anything, it has created grievances and problems that persist to this day. And if 600,000 men was a price worth paying to violently end an injustice, why is it NOT morally justafiable today to end abortion? I was under the impression that abortion was a graver moral evil than slavery. But, slavery was worth blood to end, but abortion is not.

 

[bellasbane]

One might even say it is the illusion that was entered into after the Civil Rights era of the 1960’s when liberal governments promised to make things right. The oppressed would not have to do anything themselves, because the great pharoah would take care of it all with the welfare state. All needs would be provided for in exchange foraquiescence to a few piddling government rules over ones income, what dolls your children play with, whether or not a man’s underwear was found in your dresser drawers while receiving benefits.

I don’t know what men’s underwear has to do with any of this, but I must disagree with this part of your post. If it weren’t for the woman’s right movement and progressive policies that characterized the 70s, there is no way I would have ever made it to college. Instead I can proudly put the letters Ph.D. after my name. This is only because I was fortunate to grow up before big money Republicans managed to undermine the progressive movement and destroy the economy as well.

Progressive policies work. The problem with this country are people who follow the “Gospel of Ayn Rand” rather than the “Gospel of Jesus Christ”. I hear her arguments in your post and in those of so many others on this forum. I know where those talking points come from.

Here’s a good example of what I mean: blogs.forbes.com/objectivist/2011/07/12/whats-missing-from-the-budget-debate/ - Apparently, compassion is a weakness.

 

[estesbob]

That is my continuing beef with the self-righteous who right on their shiny white horse of moral superiority. The WAY that the “War of the State” was handled, particularly “Reconstruction” didn’t fix or resolve anything. If anything, it has created grievances and problems that persist to this day. And if 600,000 men was a price worth paying to violently end an injustice, why is it NOT morally justafiable today to end abortion? I was under the impression that abortion was a graver moral evil than slavery. But, slavery was worth blood to end, but abortion is not.

If after abortin is made illegal States secede in order to keep it legal I will support the US going to war to stop them from doing so

 

[estesbob]

I don’t know what men’s underwear has to do with any of this, but I must disagree with this part of your post. If it weren’t for the woman’s right movement and progressive policies that characterized the 70s, there is no way I would have ever made it to college. Instead I can proudly put the letters Ph.D. after my name. This is only because I was fortunate to grow up before big money Republicans managed to undermine the progressive movement and destroy the economy as well.

Progressive policies work. The problem with this country are people who follow the “Gospel of Ayn Rand” rather than the “Gospel of Jesus Christ”. I hear her arguments in your post and in those of so many others on this forum. I know where those talking points come from.

Here’s a good example of what I mean: blogs.forbes.com/objectivist/2011/07/12/whats-missing-from-the-budget-debate/ - Apparently, compassion is a weakness.

My mother managed all that in the late 40s and early 50s and raised 5 kids to boot

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

If after abortin is made illegal States secede in order to keep it legal I will support the US going to war to stop them from doing so

But 40 million aborted is not enough of a cause to justify a state in seceding to end it, right?

 

[exnihilo]

Again he had no power to free the slaves that were not in areas engaged in warfare against United States

I dont know by what authority then he’d have the power to free a slave in any state. In fact you’d have to say that Lincoln only had the power to free slaves in counties in rebellion since that is the level he worked at. That is to the say the least a very odd theory.

I will take you seriously when you criticize Jefferson Davis’s much more egregious use of the suspension of habeas corpus.

I would hope you’d focus on the specifics of the debate rather than some topic that has not even been broached. I for one dont have any interest in a debate where the subject constantly changes.

This is the second time in this thread, we have had the “happy slave” myth promulgated. it is unbelievable in today’s day and age that people still make that claim.

I dont know what the day and age has to do with anything. I guess in this day of moral perfection, what with all the abortion, divorce, out of wedlock births and such, we can make grand pronouncements about the terrible past. There were in fact some happy slaves. I dont know what percentage they were of the whole, nor do you. But if you cant accept a documented fact then there is really no point in debate.

 

[exnihilo]

These were still aggressive actions taken against the Union by Southern Confederates. You are trying to change history.

I’m not changing history it would seem you are redefining aggressive. It most certainly would be aggressive to attack a foreign country. It would be defensive to attack a foreign army who has occupied your territory and refuses to vacate. The issue hinges on whether the states were sovereign and whether the Declaration of Independence has any value in American government.