Michele Bachmann signed marriage pact suggesting black families were better off during slavery

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Raskolnikov said:
Well, today it is commonly accepted that slavery is evil. In fact, in most of the western world it was more or less commonly accepted in 1860. Even Russia liberated its serfs by 1861. I’m sure the plantation owners pissed and moaned a lot all these progressive ideas. It is true, there is a danger in unthinkingly embracing “the latest ideas,” but also in unthingly clinging to the old ones.

I don’t know what you mean by “sanity is not statistical.” If you think that an idea being contradictory to statistics makes it more sane? By which logic, it is more sane to jump off of an 8 story buikding than a 4 story building because it flies in the face of the statistical evidence that the fewer people survive the former (assming someone has actually statistically analyzed the survival rate of jumping off buildings.

In short, I’m not sure what you’re getting at. 🤷 I suspect though that you are questioning my sanity because I believe that a racialist slave-state deserves to scorched from the earth in the name of justice, no matter the instrument or its motives, as surely as it was imperative that the Nazi empire be toppled, even if the one to do it was Stalin and his motives were selfish. As far as history is concerned, what actually happens isultimately more important intentions or ideologies behind them.
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I have never and will never try to argue against the evils of slavery. So, for you and everyone else that tries to paint me into that corner, you will have to find another angle to come from, because that dog don’t hunt. As I said, I am not going to debate in this thread the CAUSES AND EFFECTS of the “War Between the States”, because it is not the right place for it.
 
Stylites said:
It is a fact that the Great Society has greatly harmed the Black family as a stable social institution, and the pledge is not praising slavery as the article is sadly calumniating, but rather pointing out how family stability has declined in recent decades.
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Wouldn’t that inadvertently suggest black families in slavery were better off than black families today?
 
SamH said:
No.

Why would you make that claim?
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Simply for the fact stating the families have declined over the decades. With that, it suggests black families during slavery were better off than black families today. If something is considered to be declining, it suggests something was ideal or at a high point in good at some point in the past.

Black families are definitely hurting today and both political parties have had their hands in this evil.
 
Arkadin said:
Simply for the fact stating the families have declined over the decades…
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Anyone that thinks that the state of the black family has not declined over the past several decades has not been paying attention.
The statistics by themselves are dismaying: currently, more than 60 percent of black infants are born outside of wedlock; almost as many black families are headed by women, and the majority of black children live only with their mothers. These figures are three to five times those for white Americans, and at least three times the statistics for blacks of a generation ago. Since Daniel Patrick Moynihan released his famous report on The Negro Family almost a quarter-century ago, terms like “breakdown” and “crisis” have pervaded discussions of black domestic life.
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nybooks.com/articles/archives/1987/dec/03/american-apartheid/
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
Bob, stick to the abortion arguements. Its what you seem to be best at. 🤷
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. Would you prefer I start posting excerpts from the articles of secession by the various rebelling states where they clearl stated they were seceding over slavery?
 
Arkadin said:
Simply for the fact stating the families have declined over the decades. With that, it suggests black families during slavery were better off than black families today. If something is considered to be declining, it suggests something was ideal or at a high point in good at some point in the past.

Black families are definitely hurting today and both political parties have had their hands in this evil.
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But only one political party promotes killing them.
 
Arkadin said:
Simply for the fact stating the families have declined over the decades. With that, it suggests black families during slavery were better off than black families today. If something is considered to be declining, it suggests something was ideal or at a high point in good at some point in the past.

Black families are definitely hurting today and both political parties have had their hands in this evil.
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Yes, LIBERALS in both parties are responsible for this catastrophe in black communities, as well as communities of all races throughout America. Dr. Thomas Sowell, an American treasure and hero, has written extensively about this. Rob
 
Ahimsa said:
Ha…tell that to the ex-slaves who escaped North, and who were recaptured because of the Fugitive Slave laws supported by Southern slave-owners.:rolleyes:
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Whether you agree with slavery or not you would, I hope, agree that if your property has been deprived you that a good neighbor would return it. If the North wanted to be in union with the South then they had an obligation to return southern property.

This still exists in modern times by the way, but nation states have replaced private ownership. The US, or any modern government, regards you as their property. You are obliged to provide work for them and if you abscond they can and will demand your return. They would consider it not just impolite but morally wrong for a country to not return their property, a citizen.
 
Raskolnikov said:
A civil war does not necessarily mean two sides each trying to take over the whole. However, I would notice if I were you that the confederacy made no atteempt to peacefully secede; instead, they volently attacked an American fort, and and so the American military responded; it escalated from there. In general, you’re right, the North was more the aggressor, and they were a righteous agressor at that.
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What you say seems to be at odds with history. The South did peacefully succeed. The North refused to withdraw, as required, from South Carolina territory. South Carolina then attacked their property in order to liberate it.

The modern US would never stand for having foreign military bases on its soil, despite the fact that it has theirs in many sovereign nations.

But even if what the South did was wrong why would it be right for the North to allow the fighting to escalate. This seems to be a common theme in American wars; encourage some meaningless attack on so that you can claim the moral high ground.
Raskolnikov said:
And you shouldn’t be so naive as to pretend that the war was not about slavery for the South; it most certainly was; it had little to do with the right to secede, states’ rights, or any of that nonsense moderns try to impose on history; all that cherry-picked rhetoric was a means to defend the instituion of slavery for the benefit of the aristocratic landowners at the expense of everyone else. They are the ones to blame.
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Slavery was certainly a part of it. Many prominent southerners wanted slavery to end but the question was how. One thing both sides agreed with, before the war, was that simply freeing the slaves would be terrible for them. That seems to be the case and after liberation many former slaves even agreed.
Raskolnikov said:
Good grief. We may as well start calling the western front of WW2 the War of Allied Agression while we’re at it.
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I believe in Britain the Revolutionary War was called the War of Colonial Insurrection, a very accurate title.
 
estesbob said:
. Would you prefer I start posting excerpts from the articles of secession by the various rebelling states where they clearl stated they were seceding over slavery?
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Sure, as long as you’re willing to talk about the rampant slavery of the Irish in New England that continued on until well after the “Emancipation Proclamation”. But, since they were the same color skin as their “owners” and were much cheaper to get, much of this history is either forgotten or swept under the rug. I’m surprised, this being a Catholic forum, that more isn’t made out of the plight of the Irish slave trade in America, since most of the Irish who were brought into slavery were because they were Catholic and no other reason.
 
ringil said:
I am in NC and folks around here refer to Lincoln as “mr.” Lincoln. Black folks would cringe to hear the CR$% I hear in the sauna at my local YMCA when no black folks are in there. Everyone goes quiet when a minority comes in, and racism is dead? It’s freaking EVERYWHERE! If you folks in the South say you don’t hear it you are being dishonest.
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I’ve heard ‘racist’ things from Blacks, Whites, Southerners, Northerners. People dont get along very well. That should be obvious enough from the endless war that dominates history. No one group is immune to it.
 
Scott_Lafrance said:
Sure, as long as you’re willing to talk about the rampant slavery of the Irish in New England that continued on until well after the “Emancipation Proclamation”. But, since they were the same color skin as their “owners” and were much cheaper to get, much of this history is either forgotten or swept under the rug. I’m surprised, this being a Catholic forum, that more isn’t made out of the plight of the Irish slave trade in America, since most of the Irish who were brought into slavery were because they were Catholic and no other reason.
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Ah yes-the myth of the “wage slave” rears its ugly head. So tell us Scott, how many “wage slaves” were sold away from their families? How many wives of “wage slaves” were raped at will by their owners? How many children of “wage slaves” were automtaically owned by their Fathers employer from the moment they were born/? How many “wage slaves” were sold on the open market to the hoghst bidder?
 
exnihilo said:
What you say seems to be at odds with history. The South did peacefully succeed. The North refused to withdraw, as required, from South Carolina territory. South Carolina then attacked their property in order to liberate it.
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I would hardly call the firing on of Fort Sumpter as peacefully seceding.
 
estesbob said:
Ah yes-the myth of the “wage slave” rears its ugly head. So tell us Scott, how many “wage slaves” were sold away from their families? How many wives of “wage slaves” were raped at will by their owners? How many children of “wage slaves” were automtaically owned by their Fathers employer from the moment they were born/? How many “wage slaves” were sold on the open market to the hoghst bidder?
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I think I opened the wrong can of worms on this. I am not talking about “wage slaves”. I am talking about the proliferation of white slaves in America. Do they not count? Or is it only black slavery that matters? Because based on my research, most Irish slaves would have given a leg to be a black slave, for the majority of them were considered literally expendable. Women were sold as sex slaves and men worked in the most dangerous jobs in the field, where if they died or were severely injured, noone would care.
 
estesbob said:
I would hardly call the firing on of Fort Sumpter as peacefully seceding.
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Nor would I. But if a foreign army is occupying your territory can you not use force to make them leave if they refuse to?
 
ringil said:
Oh will you lay off it already. Everything isn’t about abortion. You try to shut down every conversation with that. . . It’s not noble. It’s not courageous.

It’s intellectually dishonest.
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Not really. You have already laid out your priorities. To paraphrase, better to vote for the left and by extention their abortion cause , than any right winger, as conservatives make you want to throw up
 
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