Michele Bachmann's [former] Church Says the Pope Is the Antichrist

[Scott_Lafrance]

Well, I think this confirms my decision to leave Catholic Answers Forums for good. This thread is the proof that whatever a conservative does is acceptable, as long as they are a conservative, and that they don’t even deserve mild condemnation for it.

Please deactivate my account. I don’t think its possible to delete all my posts, but it would be nice if it was.

:sad_bye:

 

[estesbob]

Well, I think this confirms my decision to leave Catholic Answers Forums for good. This thread is the proof that whatever a conservative does is acceptable, as long as they are a conservative, and that they don’t even deserve mild condemnation for it.

Please deactivate my account. I don’t think its possible to delete all my posts, but it would be nice if it was.

I hope you reconsider Lujack. It has always been a pleasure to debate with you

 

[meltzerboy]

Well, I think this confirms my decision to leave Catholic Answers Forums for good. This thread is the proof that whatever a conservative does is acceptable, as long as they are a conservative, and that they don’t even deserve mild condemnation for it.

Please deactivate my account. I don’t think its possible to delete all my posts, but it would be nice if it was.

Lujack, I haven’t made your acquaintance until now but, as a Liberal Democrat who supports Bachmann on THIS issue (and not too many others), I must point out that, to be fair, it is important for us to take each case on an individual basis. In other words, in this particular instance, Bachmann may very well have been ignorant of the teaching of her church (given her past ignorance of several other things), and I think we must give her the benefit of the doubt. Besides, I don’t believe she can be held accountable for all of her church’s or pastor’s views–assuming the allegations are in fact true–any more than Obama can. On the other hand, if she had a long history of anti-Catholic rhetoric or writing, that would be an entirely different matter.

 

[haroldhill]

I wonder if the Republicans will dwell on this like they did with Obama and Rev. Wright.

 

[CatholicBoy1957]

Well, I think this confirms my decision to leave Catholic Answers Forums for good. This thread is the proof that whatever a conservative does is acceptable, as long as they are a conservative, and that they don’t even deserve mild condemnation for it.

Please deactivate my account. I don’t think its possible to delete all my posts, but it would be nice if it was.

Why are you telling us to deactivate your account? I have a hunch, if it were possible for any member to deactivate any member’s account, there wouldn’t be many active accounts left.

Why does your account have to be deactivated? Why don’t you just not come back? It’s like being single. You come and go as you please. Did you really think anyone would be so rude as to offer a toast to your departure?

 

[skigirl1689]

hi sam. actually wels does officially teach this and you can find it on their web page. this isn’t restricted to a few members as it is found in their doctrinal statements.

wels.net/about-wels/doctrinal-statements/antichrist?page=0,7

something from the wels doctrinal statement to think about:

like another poster pointed out, you are either with Christ’s Church or against Her.

well, maybe she didn’t take the time to read what her church teaches and didn’t know, but i find it very hard to believe that her pastor didn’t know this. in fact i don’t believe it at all.

I tried my best to keep silent about this but as a WELS member (as stated before) it is NOT openly taught. Does every single Catholic read ALL the Church’s teachings including the CCC and the statements of every pope? I am assuming no. In addition to this, the statement is made from a LUTHERAN theological standpoint which sees the pope as replacing Christ. Obviously they are mistaken but please try to see how it came about.

Also please remember what the CCC says about other Christian denominations:

817
In fact, "in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church—for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame."269 The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body—here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism270—do not occur without human sin:

    Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.271

818
"However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers . . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church."272

It has been a belief passed down and unfortunately is probably not going away. But to think, I got the sense from your other posts, that belonging to this synod automatically makes a person anti-Catholic is not accurate. I love my Catholic friends and family members, I might not understand or agree with some of the Church’s beliefs, but I am not anti-Catholic. It really hurts when someone condemns the members of a faith community when most of us don’t know of the teaching.

Hope this sounded charitable. Been a draining day visiting an uncle who has cancer (who just happens to be Catholic).

 

[Nominefili]

Evangelical faith is as far from Catholicism as the East is from the West.

Does she believe in the Real Pressence?
Does she believe in the Authority of Peter and Apostolic Succession?
Does she believe in the Imaculate Conception and the Asumption?
No.

Her faith isn’t Catholic- PERIOD. It is totally alien to the True Faith- no connection whatsoever.

Let me ask you - as a Lutheran baptized in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, would your priest rebaptize me? No. He would accept my Baptism.

Do we share the ecumenical creeds? Yes.

To sit here and say that it’s ‘as far from the east is from the west’ because the Lutherans reject the Immaculate Conception and Assumption of Mary is simply asinine. I understand they are crucial elements of the Catholic faith, and I am not here to disparage or to argue about them. But it is not of the same level of importance as believing that Christ rose from the dead.

Furthermore, it is my understanding that Catholicism requires adherence and agreement with all its tenets, both in faith and morals correct? So how exactly do choicers like Nancy Pelosi get to keep calling themselves Catholic? I do think that, in many ways, if Bachmann truly believes in the Triune God, regenerative Baptism, Christ’s sacrifice and His glorious resurrection, she likely is ‘more Catholic’ than those who claim Catholicism as their faith when it’s convenient but siphon federal money to abortion mills when nobody’s looking.

 

[CatholicBoy1957]

when someone condemns the members of a faith community when most of us don’t know of the teaching.

She’s not being condemned because of Lutheran teaching. She’s being condemned because she’s a good person, and would make a good President, and she’s being condemned by people who would like to see evils, like communism, grow in America.

 

[Nominefili]

She’s not being condemned because of Lutheran teaching. She’s being condemned because she’s a good person, and would make a good President, and she’s being condemned by people who would like to see evils, like communism, grow in America.

Amen!

Put Obama and Bachmann up next to each other in 2012 for the family-values crowd.

One raised over 20 foster children while the other has 100% ratings from NARAL and voted ‘present’ on SB 230 so as not to interfere with partial-birth abortions.

ilga.gov/senate/transcripts/strans90/ST031897.pdf

 

[CatholicBoy1957]

Amen!

Put Obama and Bachmann up next to each other in 2012 for the family-values crowd.

One raised over 20 foster children while the other has 100% ratings from NARAL and voted ‘present’ on SB 230 so as not to interfere with partial-birth abortions.

ilga.gov/senate/transcripts/strans90/ST031897.pdf

**We’ve discussed people in anti-Catholic churches, now let’s discuss people in anti-Catholic administrations. **

 

[Nominefili]

**We’ve discussed people in anti-Catholic churches, now let’s discuss people in anti-Catholic administrations. **

Speaking of which, Catholics know as well as anyone in this country how unfair it is to be pressed out of politics simply because of their church. Everyone does remember why JFK’s election was such a big deal right? This country existed for a long time before Catholics had political mobility.

 

[rlg94086]

Speaking of which, Catholics know as well as anyone in this country how unfair it is to be pressed out of politics simply because of their church. Everyone does remember why JFK’s election was such a big deal right? This country existed for a long time before Catholics had political mobility.

Well said. A Catholic who won’t vote for someone in an “anti-Catholic” church is doing the same thing that the No Nothings did to Catholic candidates.

 

[skigirl1689]

She’s not being condemned because of Lutheran teaching. She’s being condemned because she’s a good person, and would make a good President, and she’s being condemned by people who would like to see evils, like communism, grow in America.

Excellent point! Just felt the need to reiterate the truth of the issue, and it certainly is not her, in my opinion.

 

[loneviking]

She’s not being condemned because of Lutheran teaching. She’s being condemned because she’s a good person, and would make a good President, and she’s being condemned by people who would like to see evils, like communism, grow in America.

And to add to that, because she is an advocate for a strict constructionist viewpoint to the American constitution; and from that belief that we were intended to at least be a nation of Christian morals and values. Along with that belief also goes a conviction of limited government of strictly enumerated powers. All of these beliefs are anathema to those doing their best to destroy this country and rewrite our history.

 

[Arkadin]

She’s not being condemned because of Lutheran teaching. She’s being condemned because she’s a good person, and would make a good President, and she’s being condemned by people who would like to see evils, like communism, grow in America.

That’s it, we’ve been found out guys.

would make a good President,

Maybe for Middle School.

 

[sub_rosa]

I tried my best to keep silent about this but as a WELS member (as stated before) it is NOT openly taught. Does every single Catholic read ALL the Church’s teachings including the CCC and the statements of every pope? I am assuming no. In addition to this, the statement is made from a LUTHERAN theological standpoint which sees the pope as replacing Christ. Obviously they are mistaken but please try to see how it came about.

Also please remember what the CCC says about other Christian denominations:

It has been a belief passed down and unfortunately is probably not going away. But to think, I got the sense from your other posts, that belonging to this synod automatically makes a person anti-Catholic is not accurate. I love my Catholic friends and family members, I might not understand or agree with some of the Church’s beliefs, but I am not anti-Catholic. It really hurts when someone condemns the members of a faith community when most of us don’t know of the teaching.

i think that if one follows Christ’s teachings, whether Lutheran or Catholic. the common theme is loving one another. Some stick to the letter rather than the spirit of the law.
I’ll give Michele the benefit of the doubt in regard to anti-catholicism. I disagree with other issues more than that.

Hope this sounded charitable. Been a draining day visiting an uncle who has cancer (who just happens to be Catholic).

 

[sub_rosa]

I can’t seem to edit the above post. My thoughts are the second to the last paragraph. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[meltzerboy]

She’s not being condemned because of Lutheran teaching. She’s being condemned because she’s a good person, and would make a good President, and she’s being condemned by people who would like to see evils, like communism, grow in America.

So the progressive, liberal Democrats have now graduated from being called Socialists to, implicitly, Communists; or are you perhaps referring to secular humanists and atheists; or are they all the same? Personally, I don’t condemn Bachmann: I think she’s an intelligent woman despite her gaffes. Many of those who criticize her dispute her policies, not her character. While not condemning her, neither do I wish to return to the political era of McCarthyism in America or to Reagan’s “Evil Empire” ideology, which he espoused earlier in his presidency, and which your comment brings to mind.

 

[Nominefili]

So the progressive, liberal Democrats have now graduated from being called Socialists to, implicitly, Communists;

Not implicitly. Explicitly. “Progressive?” Progressive toward what? What is the logical end of policies which focus upon constantly taking more and more from the producers in the form of increased taxation and giving to an ever-expanding recipient class? Eventually you ‘progress’ to communism.

I refer you to the 10 Planks of communism:

The section ends by outlining a set of short-term demands:
Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes.
A heavy progressive or graduated income tax.
Abolition of all right of inheritance.
Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels.
Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly.
Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State.
Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan.
Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture.
Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of the population over the country.
Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children’s factory labour in its present form. Combination of education with industrial production.[13]

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto

We’re just progressing from one plank to the next now aren’t we?

 

[meltzerboy]

Not implicitly. Explicitly. “Progressive?” Progressive toward what? What is the logical end of policies which focus upon constantly taking more and more from the producers in the form of increased taxation and giving to an ever-expanding recipient class? Eventually you ‘progress’ to communism.

I refer you to the 10 Planks of communism:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Communist_Manifesto

We’re just progressing from one plank to the next now aren’t we?

Explicit for you; implicit for the previous poster I responded to. Are all of these points so evil? Examine the last one with regard to education, for example. And I suppose capitalism is completely moral and just, in your view, with no corporate exploitation of the working poor and middle class? We live in a different world today, in which terrorism is the main enemy, not the “Evil Empire” or the American Indians. The era of rigid ideologies has eroded, despite the attempts of the neo-Conservatives to revive the old World Order. Such hybrid systems as social capitalism are now on the table for discussion and implementation with nations such as China and Russia, which are part of our global economy, just as hybrid cars are becoming the wave of the future.