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TC3033
Guest
I’ll take a flyer at this one? Who should we (you) trust? The priest or the bishop, who from what I gather reading the thread, deemed the homily inappropriate?
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VanitasVanitatum
Guest
It’s not an effective method for converting people so it would best to stay safe.
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JulianN
Guest
That’s not actually the point, though. The priest divulged information that was not his to share. Particularly if the family hadn’t told him the cause of death and he learned it elsewhere. The homily is not supposed to be about the cause of death – if he mentioned it without permission, then he was out of line.
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HB11
Guest
Where was that? I remember hearing a bit about it but didn’t know they sent Priest away.
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Weserthy
Guest
There may have been another case that she was referring to that would fit that description but it happened in Washington D.C. a few years back. I believe the person who was refused was not only a lesbian, but a Buddhist as well (I could be confusing another incident here but there was some incident that involved a Buddhist getting denied as well and the priest getting punished for that. Not sure if it was the same one). Cardinal Wuerl, who was the Archbishop at the time, kicked the priest out of the Archdiocese since he was only a visiting priest. He was a proponent of not denying pretty much anyone, no matter what. If this would have happened here now with the priest in this story he would have probably punished the priest and put out a big apology to the judge (Cardinal Wuerl is not the Archbishop anymore, but our current Archbishop would have probably done the same thing I’m guessing).
But the point is, that I agree, that just because the diocese reprimanded the priest and apologized to the parents doesn’t necessarily mean they were right to do so. They could be right, but it doesn’t automatically make them right.
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Annie
Guest
In Maryland, in 2012–I am shocked, I would have said it was only a year or two ago 
Can’t find a source of this info now, but apparently before the funeral Mass, the woman told the priest she was a Bhuddist, and introduced a woman as her lover
Can’t find a source of this info now, but apparently before the funeral Mass, the woman told the priest she was a Bhuddist, and introduced a woman as her lover
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Theo520
Guest
Seems they want to blame everyone but themselves, I’m sure they were excellent parents 
If the coach wasn’t invited, he shouldn’t have gone.
All Catholics should understand what suicide means. Don’t see their anger here at the priest.
The homily is meant to influence the living. Many teens glorify suicide, but not the priest.
If the coach wasn’t invited, he shouldn’t have gone.
All Catholics should understand what suicide means. Don’t see their anger here at the priest.
The homily is meant to influence the living. Many teens glorify suicide, but not the priest.
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TC3033
Guest
Well, for one it isn’t his place to announce or divulge that type of information. Two, there must have been something wrong enough to bring admonishment from the Bishop and a formal apology.
I asked this up thread and didn’t receive an answer. For those backing the priest, are you saying the Bishop is then wrong?
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Theo520
Guest
I think there is wrong on all parties.
If they didn’t want legit commentary of a religious nature, they should have had a different sort of service or perhaps had a deeper discussion with the priest on what he might discuss.
Suicides are not a new thing, the Church has been giving homilies on them for a couple millennia. It’s not for me to know if he went too far but my gut feel is the Bishop opted for the politically correct path over the hard truths.
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JulianN
Guest
It sounds as if they wanted a Catholic funeral. What they didn’t want, nor should they have expected, was for the priest to divulge the manner of death to a congregation. It was not his place to do so.
The manner of death is certainly not a required component of a funeral homily—I’ve been to many funerals where it’s never mentioned.
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Mary888
Guest
I understand what you are talking about.
The service of a priest cannot be equaled to buying a product even if, as far as the world is concerned, priesthood is just another type of profession.
However it is possible that the priest just lashed out at this particular funeral quite randomly, when he shouldn’t have, and now the parents are lashing back at him. Both parties under a lot of stress but the parents of the deceased just lost their son so maybe they should get some sympathy.
The service of a priest cannot be equaled to buying a product even if, as far as the world is concerned, priesthood is just another type of profession.
However it is possible that the priest just lashed out at this particular funeral quite randomly, when he shouldn’t have, and now the parents are lashing back at him. Both parties under a lot of stress but the parents of the deceased just lost their son so maybe they should get some sympathy.
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JulianN
Guest
No. It’s not. It’s a good example of why priests need good pastoral training.
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Kindnessmatters
Guest
Unfortunately, the popular notion is to avoid letting anyone feel badly about any choice. We now want to soften the stance and be more accepting of suicide…justify it so a family can reframe it as something tragically beautiful. Uhm, no.
The priest was not cruel. He talked about God’s mercy at length. He talked about suffering compassionately.
I have a friend who has gone through years of suicidal ideations. All he needed to follow through with his fantasy of jumping in front of a commuter train was permission from someone who would romanticize the idea and brush over the immorality of the decision. He sought such permission from several people, particularly me…he bullied us for it.
I refused even under his suicidal threats to be sympathetic to suicidal ideation. I am quite sure some hearing our discussions would have criticized me as being hard and unsympathetic.
I told him suicide is sinful, selfish, would devastate his family and would set a horrible precedent. I asked him how he would feel if his sister, who lost her son in Afghanistan, killed herself. How would that impact her other kids and grandchildren? I even yelled…actually yelled because his behaviour grossly limited my choices…that he needed to pick up his cross and carry it. Others will help but we are carrying crosses too and sometimes he not only needs to carry the full weight of his own, but also his mother’s, brother’s, neighbors, or even mine for a while, I let him know suffering is part of life, and he can and must walk through it. I told him he was self absorbed and that healthy people think of others. We would all be suicidal if we spent every day in self analysis.
Reading stuff from a family member who marches against suicide all the time, she would say everything I did was wrong. If I had fed this friend the weak, romanticized baby food about his helplessness that her new age organization pushes, he would be dead. It’s all about caring only for oneself, resting, meditating…no!!!
He needed to be told to think of others, get up and take a shower, go help his mother, stop wallowing in sinful ideas. I hugged him, and we cleaned his disgusting apartment (he swore through he whole project but did it) and I took him out for a meal, too…compassion and toughness. Obviously he needed counseling, and in his case, sobriety. He eventually went Six years later, he has moved past this fantasy. Life is hard for him at times but he is rallying.
Suicide is a brutal thing, and often inspires more suicide. I am not sure a softer approach is best. Could the priest say “suicide” less times, or gloss over the sinful nature of the act…sure. I’m just not sure that would be an improvement. We need to be aware that when one teen does this, three more in the congregation are considering it.
The priest was not cruel. He talked about God’s mercy at length. He talked about suffering compassionately.
I have a friend who has gone through years of suicidal ideations. All he needed to follow through with his fantasy of jumping in front of a commuter train was permission from someone who would romanticize the idea and brush over the immorality of the decision. He sought such permission from several people, particularly me…he bullied us for it.
I refused even under his suicidal threats to be sympathetic to suicidal ideation. I am quite sure some hearing our discussions would have criticized me as being hard and unsympathetic.
I told him suicide is sinful, selfish, would devastate his family and would set a horrible precedent. I asked him how he would feel if his sister, who lost her son in Afghanistan, killed herself. How would that impact her other kids and grandchildren? I even yelled…actually yelled because his behaviour grossly limited my choices…that he needed to pick up his cross and carry it. Others will help but we are carrying crosses too and sometimes he not only needs to carry the full weight of his own, but also his mother’s, brother’s, neighbors, or even mine for a while, I let him know suffering is part of life, and he can and must walk through it. I told him he was self absorbed and that healthy people think of others. We would all be suicidal if we spent every day in self analysis.
Reading stuff from a family member who marches against suicide all the time, she would say everything I did was wrong. If I had fed this friend the weak, romanticized baby food about his helplessness that her new age organization pushes, he would be dead. It’s all about caring only for oneself, resting, meditating…no!!!
He needed to be told to think of others, get up and take a shower, go help his mother, stop wallowing in sinful ideas. I hugged him, and we cleaned his disgusting apartment (he swore through he whole project but did it) and I took him out for a meal, too…compassion and toughness. Obviously he needed counseling, and in his case, sobriety. He eventually went Six years later, he has moved past this fantasy. Life is hard for him at times but he is rallying.
Suicide is a brutal thing, and often inspires more suicide. I am not sure a softer approach is best. Could the priest say “suicide” less times, or gloss over the sinful nature of the act…sure. I’m just not sure that would be an improvement. We need to be aware that when one teen does this, three more in the congregation are considering it.
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JulianN
Guest
Um, no, to quote you. I have lost a family member to suicide – no one, and I mean no one, is reframing this as “tragically beautiful.”
In fact, this is offensive.
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JulianN
Guest
His archbishop disagrees.
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Beryllos
Guest
He talked about a lot of important stuff, but he didn’t talk about the deceased. He only inserted his name in the appropriate places. Change the name, and the homily would work just as well for any suicide victim. That could be the problem. The homily did not speak in charity of a human person, uniquely created and especially loved by God, but only delivered a teaching about a generic suicide victim.
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Willing_Spirit
Active member
Yeah, that sermon sounds great. The only problem seems to be that it assumes and addresses a fear of hell that must not have existed. It comes across as tactless, because rather than giving hope to an existing fear of hell, it establishes the fear of hell that was not there.
It could be more appropriate for a funeral to just focus on mercy and not even mention the sin. An explanation of suicide is not going to be taken well during mourning unless hell was already a concern causing anxiety.
It could be more appropriate for a funeral to just focus on mercy and not even mention the sin. An explanation of suicide is not going to be taken well during mourning unless hell was already a concern causing anxiety.
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Willing_Spirit
Active member
He may not have known him. Most Catholics don’t practice or know their priest, but for some reason still insist on a few things like a Catholic Baptism, Wedding, and Funeral.
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JulianN
Guest
And since the family apparently had not divulged the cause of death, it was particularly inappropriate.
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Kindnessmatters
Guest
Many people do push a narrative of tragic beauty in suicide. A popular suicide prevention organization in my area is pushing to remove the stigma of suicide, and very much pushes the tragic beauty of a person finding peace in ending their lives. I may sound hard…I can assure you the hardness is matched with hours over coffee, calling to find treatment options, and showing the suffering person their God given value.
You may choose to take offense, or recognize my point…those considering suicide are often stopped in the that seminal moment of decision because they know that they would not be ending pain at all, but rather dumping it on everyone who loves them.
I was fine with my friend being offended or angry…or you for that matter…as that anger requires life. He later appreciated it. No one approach is always right and my friend can be a cornered wolverine when he is frustrated…I might respond differently to a timid, bullied kid. In no circumstance though would I come remotely close to excusing the act of suicide. Understand the suffering, pray, celebrate the good of the person and his life…yes. be compassionate…yes. But the message to suicide survivors…the friends, the family…this act transfers suffering to others rather than ending the suffering. If I love you, you have no right to kill yourself…you have no right to do that to me, much less yourself. If I am weak, you have no right to show me that path by example.
We must walk through our own suffering…not alone, not without help, but ultimately, we have to be the driver. Take that responsibility away with misplaced tolerance of the intollerable and suicide will skyrocket. I am not saying to be a jerk, but part of this is being tough.
You may choose to take offense, or recognize my point…those considering suicide are often stopped in the that seminal moment of decision because they know that they would not be ending pain at all, but rather dumping it on everyone who loves them.
I was fine with my friend being offended or angry…or you for that matter…as that anger requires life. He later appreciated it. No one approach is always right and my friend can be a cornered wolverine when he is frustrated…I might respond differently to a timid, bullied kid. In no circumstance though would I come remotely close to excusing the act of suicide. Understand the suffering, pray, celebrate the good of the person and his life…yes. be compassionate…yes. But the message to suicide survivors…the friends, the family…this act transfers suffering to others rather than ending the suffering. If I love you, you have no right to kill yourself…you have no right to do that to me, much less yourself. If I am weak, you have no right to show me that path by example.
We must walk through our own suffering…not alone, not without help, but ultimately, we have to be the driver. Take that responsibility away with misplaced tolerance of the intollerable and suicide will skyrocket. I am not saying to be a jerk, but part of this is being tough.
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