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djrakowski
Guest
Nothing prideful about it. I could teach our class rather well, as long as I had an orthodox curriculum and a solid apologist as a backup.
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Pug
Guest
In our parish, we (the RCIA team) are requested to do just what you describe. I am capable of discussing the passage for 30 minutes, with bible references to concepts, CCC lookups, doctrinal vignettes, the whole nine yards, but we are not supposed to do that. They want the RCIA class members to look at the gospel and interact with it and eachother, with the least amount of assistance from the Team.
I do know, from those times I have fallen into giving a presentation, that it is appreciated by some of the class. I can’t say that would be best for the whole class, though.
Do realize that they may be doing what the priest has told them to do.
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djrakowski
Guest
Is the leader supposed to correct the class if they stray from Church teaching? This sounds like a rather unproductive way to ensure that the students get the fullness of the faith. What you are not supposed to do is exactly what I expected out of RCIA, so I guess I’m just going to have to learn to get used to disappointment
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mercygate
Guest
It seems to be the Gospel of RCIA that doctrine is to be avoided like the plague in favor of relating to the lectionary. In my experience, by the time a convert drags himself into the process, he’s doctrine-starved and wants all he can get. But the lectionary approach is probably better to reache those who have little formation in any faith.
The problem with RCIA is that it’s a one-size-fits-all operation. And it doesn’t fit all. You learn patience and obedience, though. And that counts for a lot.
The problem with RCIA is that it’s a one-size-fits-all operation. And it doesn’t fit all. You learn patience and obedience, though. And that counts for a lot.
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totustuusmaria
Guest
RCIA at my parish was amazing!
The Traditionalists tend to hate RCIA, but I’ve seen it done really really well, so I can’t hate it.
The Traditionalists tend to hate RCIA, but I’ve seen it done really really well, so I can’t hate it.
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totustuusmaria
Guest
RCIA at my parish was all about doctrine. I do see what you mean “one size fits all” though.
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Celia
Guest
Yeah, she mentioned making some sort of an outline but it hasn’t happened yet…maybe soon. I’ll ask about it.
And by the way, you guys have binders?? Cool.
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Celia
Guest
See, I don’t really see how we’re learning from that approach though. People that are more talkative make comments and then, silence. The teacher won’t really say much at all. She could at least lead the discussion or talk when no one else is saying anything and we’re just staring at our handouts. I would appreciate it more if she gave us a talk on the Catholic approach to that particular gospel reading and then open up the floor for questions/ comments, etc.
Oh, and the teacher has been doing this for like 10 years or something. She pretty much runs the show, our priests don’t really have much to do with it. She’s a nice person, I like her, she donates a lot of her time to the church and all, it’s just…I think that a different approach is desperately needed.
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snowman10
Guest
RCIA should consist of:
Q & A Sessions
Why you are you converting Session
Jesus, God, Holy Sprirt
Mary
The Authorityof the Church/Pope and Bishops
The role of Scripture
Communion of Saints
Sacraments
Church History
then move onto practices such as how to genuflect, bless yourself, pray the Rosary, learn the Creeds, etc…Formation
This is just my opinion…feel free to add. I was thinking of maybe writing a book on this after my RCIA process is done. I would like it to have one version be book for RCIA instructors and a different one for students. It would contain important elements and whatnot.
DXU
Q & A Sessions
Why you are you converting Session
Jesus, God, Holy Sprirt
Mary
The Authorityof the Church/Pope and Bishops
The role of Scripture
Communion of Saints
Sacraments
Church History
then move onto practices such as how to genuflect, bless yourself, pray the Rosary, learn the Creeds, etc…Formation
This is just my opinion…feel free to add. I was thinking of maybe writing a book on this after my RCIA process is done. I would like it to have one version be book for RCIA instructors and a different one for students. It would contain important elements and whatnot.
DXU
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Pug
Guest
It is not really designed to be “teaching” during the gospel reflection time, so it is not a good format to teach doctrine. We do, however, correct anything that may be incorrect! Don’t worry, though, after the gospel reflection, the deacon gives a doctrine lecture. We have a set order of topics, starting with Revelation and ending with Mary and Mystagogy.
RCIA is designed for the unbaptized folks who know little about the faith. However, it usually seems populated by people who do know a fair amount, so the one-size approach can be a little troublesome.
To Celia,
You’ll make it through eventually! I am sorry you aren’t getting a good format. Ask anything you can’t get answered here on the boards, some posters are pretty sharp in the answer department. I know that is not the same as an organized course of topics.
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djrakowski
Guest
As I’ve mentioned on another thread, it seems that there should be separate classes for those who aren’t Christian, for those who are non-Catholic Christians, and for experienced Catholics. That way, the curricula could be more appropriately tailored for each audience.
Again, on that other thread, I mentioned that my research had led me to believe that RCIA would be structured in the way I described it in the previous paragraph. Why, then, does the Church structure it that way? Does it realize how many people leave RCIA because of how poorly it meets the needs of its students?
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djrakowski
Guest
Learning doctrine is FAR more important than learning patience, because patience doesn’t reveal to me the Truth (for all the good that it does accomplish).
Strangely, we don’t even follow the lectionary approach. I didn’t know there was such a concept in RCIA until a few folks here mentioned it.
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totustuusmaria
Guest
I think it’s important that a way is built into it to deal with the needs of induviduals. The sponsor is supposed to interact with the convert on a personal level, but I think it needs to be set up so that someone who has a better doctrinal position also interacts with them. RCIA should also include personal sessions with the pastor.
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totustuusmaria
Guest
I don’t know, but at my parish, we went through the entire chatechism and went pretty deeply into traditional theology. Of course, that was at the “second session” which was a doctrinal session and may have been an invention of my parish. Is there a doctrinal session in RCIA?
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djrakowski
Guest
I’m not sure. We’ve been given a sheet that lists dates and the topics that will be covered, but I don’t see any clear delineation between course segments.
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netmilsmom
Guest
Could you get us a copy of your syllabus? I would pay the postage.
PM me! We’re not far from you.
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MrS
Guest
Interesting thread. For what it is worth, I think most of the comments made thus far are in the dark.
1] Yes, Christ the King has a good program. But don’t let the implication arise that it was the **program **that produced Steve Ray. He was determined to become Catholic… RCIA or not.
2] Schedules and outlines are necessary? Perhaps to organize. Perhaps to enable the director to implement a 7, or 12 month program… or longer. But again, the **program **does not make the Catholic.
3] Expectations are often greater than results. I agree. Too many programs are approached at being the **formula **for becoming a good Catholic… then turn out to be boring, simplistic, or even confusing (and perhaps heretical). Is it the participants fault (or credit) that the program is effective or weak? IMHO I think the programs (for the most part) are only good, not great. They give you a boat for the journey as a Catholic, but they don’t give you the oars, or make you a sailor. If you are a Steve Ray type, it won’t matter. Most of us are not.
A few years ago I mentioned to the Bishop that it was sad that 1200 were coming into the Church at Easter,… and perhaps half would be gone by the following Easter (their boat never left the dock). His comment? “It will be worse … more than half will be gone”
He had no answer, and no plan to correct this problem.
Do I? Well… I had suggested that RCIA should include some of the lax Catholics in the parish. I think that almost any parish has 1/3 of the membership who don’t attend Mass etc. (just like the RCIA participants). We wait for someone to approach the parish or get recommended for RCIA… and wait, and wait. And all this time we have hundreds of potential attendees who may only need to be asked!!
It might…
increase the interest level of attendees
rekindle the faith of the lax Catholics
inspire the attendees to become more active… and more
What does it take… a pastor who is willing and able to knock on doors. Let the lay administrator or whoever, run the day to day operations, while the **pastor **becomes active in saving souls. With a good pastor, no program will be strong. And our only claim to fame will be the occasional new Catholic who is on fire.
1] Yes, Christ the King has a good program. But don’t let the implication arise that it was the **program **that produced Steve Ray. He was determined to become Catholic… RCIA or not.
2] Schedules and outlines are necessary? Perhaps to organize. Perhaps to enable the director to implement a 7, or 12 month program… or longer. But again, the **program **does not make the Catholic.
3] Expectations are often greater than results. I agree. Too many programs are approached at being the **formula **for becoming a good Catholic… then turn out to be boring, simplistic, or even confusing (and perhaps heretical). Is it the participants fault (or credit) that the program is effective or weak? IMHO I think the programs (for the most part) are only good, not great. They give you a boat for the journey as a Catholic, but they don’t give you the oars, or make you a sailor. If you are a Steve Ray type, it won’t matter. Most of us are not.
A few years ago I mentioned to the Bishop that it was sad that 1200 were coming into the Church at Easter,… and perhaps half would be gone by the following Easter (their boat never left the dock). His comment? “It will be worse … more than half will be gone”
He had no answer, and no plan to correct this problem.
Do I? Well… I had suggested that RCIA should include some of the lax Catholics in the parish. I think that almost any parish has 1/3 of the membership who don’t attend Mass etc. (just like the RCIA participants). We wait for someone to approach the parish or get recommended for RCIA… and wait, and wait. And all this time we have hundreds of potential attendees who may only need to be asked!!
It might…
increase the interest level of attendees
rekindle the faith of the lax Catholics
inspire the attendees to become more active… and more
What does it take… a pastor who is willing and able to knock on doors. Let the lay administrator or whoever, run the day to day operations, while the **pastor **becomes active in saving souls. With a good pastor, no program will be strong. And our only claim to fame will be the occasional new Catholic who is on fire.
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Anthony_s_Mom
Guest
netmil(name removed by moderator):
FYI - it is a charismatic parish, some people have problems with that but rest assured that it’s a very orthodox parish also. It’s growing very fast because there’s so much happening there and b/c it’s faithful to the magisterium.
If you need any more info let me know!
I don’t have the syllabus b/c I’m a sponsor, they don’t give us everything - but I can try to get a copy of it on Sunday from the guy I’m sponsoring in and scan it and email it to you. Or you can call the parish office (734) 665-5040. The website is: rc.net/lansing/ctk/
FYI - it is a charismatic parish, some people have problems with that but rest assured that it’s a very orthodox parish also. It’s growing very fast because there’s so much happening there and b/c it’s faithful to the magisterium.
If you need any more info let me know!
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djrakowski
Guest
Anthony's Mom:
Dan
I’ve downloaded the study materials, and at first glance, they’re orders of magnitude better than what we’re using. Thanks for the tip!
Dan
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Pug
Guest
The Church structures it this way to match some historical practices from Roman times. RCIA is actually quite young (mostly appearing in the early 80’s, or maybe 70’s). It used to be that you met with the priest and stuff to become Catholic. In a way, it ought to be an improvement that the attempt is made to integrate the people into the community. But I think it is sad that so little (relatively) formation is offered. At least it is orthodox formation at our parish.
I do think it would help greatly to offer separate classes for the different level of student. Our class has 15 year olds up to 50 year olds who have been Christain most of their lives. I don’t have any great answers for you, as I too feel more could be done, but I have no control to do it.
In response to another poster, we do get regular parishioners in the class just to learn more about the faith. We invite them every year.
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