Minneapolis ex-officer who knelt on George Floyd's neck is in custody and faces a murder charge

[pnewton]

The other three did break the law. In my opinion the delay in charging them is getting the charges correct for these circumstances.

I tried to find such a law last night and all I found were the civil statutes dealing with deprivation of civil rights. I might give it another go tonight. I said on another thread that there might be a need to change the law, but that would require some thought.

 

[dscath]

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Horton]

For those of us who are outside of the Minnesota state criminal system speculating, it would seem so. However I would bet they have a strict definition of what exactly premeditation means which is why they didn’t charge that cop any higher than they did. Even the “determine to commit” must mean the determination must be before the act itself.

(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

While there is no excuse for what that cop did, I don’t think he woke up that day with a plan to kill Mr Floyd. I don’t he responded to that call with the intent to kill Mr Floyd. I believe that cop acted in a depraved manner and was did not care much what happened to Mr Floyd. I believe he thought he could do whatever he wanted and get away with it. I believe he thought he had some kind of super power and he believed Mr Floyd’s did not matter. But I don’t believe he planned the murder.

 

[dvdjs]

If you can talk, you can breathe.

This is misinformation. The reality is well-known.

Seth Stoughton, an associate professor of law at the University of South Carolina, told the news network that keeping suspects in the prone position, meaning face-down with their hands cuffed behind their backs, for an extended period of time is dangerous in and of itself, because it’s known to cause positional asphyxia.

Someone in that position can draw enough breath to gasp or speak in spurts, but they can’t breathe fully, so they gradually lose oxygen and fall unconscious.

George Floyd case: Pa. police chiefs condemn officer’s knee-on-neck method seen in viral video

“There are many ways to restrain a handcuffed individual and this method is not approved, nor used by our officers," said Derry Township Police Chief Garth Warner.

www.pennlive.com

 

[WingedHussar]

So they can still breathe until the pass out, seems like that is the point of that sort of restraining method in the first place. Autopsy already shows Floyd did not die from asphyxiation.

 

[dvdjs]

So they can still breathe until the pass out

What breathing means is to intake sufficient air to oxygenate tissues and exhale sufficiently to expel CO2 to a degree necessary to sustain life. George Floyd could not breathe.

 

[WingedHussar]

Yes, and the autopsy proves that he did not die from not breathing so your point is?

 

[Horton]

WingedHussar:

If you can talk, you can breathe.

This is misinformation. The reality is well-known.

Have you ever been unable to breathe? Have you ever been in a situation where you have to fight for every gulp of air? You can’t talk, you can’t form words, you certainly can’t “speak in spurts”. Every bit of energy goes towards getting air in your lungs. I have been in that situation, struggling to breath and at one point not being able to breath. I had a very strange one of asthma attack and drove myself with my kids 15 miles to the nearest hospital. By the time I got there I couldn’t tell them what was happening because I couldn’t breath. My sats were in the 70s, they had to scramble to get to me to take in enough oxygen from there.

So if a person can talk, they can breath. Your Seth Stoughton is an attorney with his undergrad in English. While he may have an opinion on this, it is in no way an expert opinion.

 

[dvdjs]

the autopsy proves

We’ll see. I should be said that an autopsy said no “traumatic asphyxiation” . That is different than what Professor Stoughton was talking about. That autopsy also went so far as to talk of " ‘potential’ intoxicants". Big red flag.

Positional asphyxia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Traumatic asphyxia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

So if a person can talk, they can breath

Your story is an interesting one. It is not probative. What ws your Osat when you stopped being able to cry out.

 

[Nepperhan]

And, for a Republican counter-opinion:

"PETAL, Miss. (AP) — A Mississippi mayor who sparked outrage when he said he “didn’t see anything unreasonable” about the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis police custody is resisting calls to resign, including from his own town’s board of aldermen.

“Why in the world would anyone choose to become a police officer in our society today?” Petal Mayor Hal Marx tweeted Tuesday, the day four Minneapolis police officers were fired. The 46-year-old Floyd, a black man, was handcuffed and pleading for air as a white police officer kneeled on his neck Monday.

In a follow-up tweet, the Republican directly referenced the Floyd case, saying he “didn’t see anything unreasonable”: “If you can say you can’t breathe, you’re breathing. Most likely that man died of overdose or heart attack. Video doesn’t show his resistance that got him in that position. Police being crucified.”

The mayor later apologized for his comments…

 

[Ridgerunner]

If he is convicted of first degree murder, the highest penalty is life in prison. But his likelihood of surviving very long in prison is not very good.

 

[tomarin]

Even his chances of surviving out of prison (should he get acquitted) might be not too good, barring a change of identity and/or a move to someplace like Maine or Montana.

 

[Theo520]

And, for a Republican counter-opinion:

You are really reaching here, a mayor of a 10,000 people town isn’t representative of much of anything.

His observation that COD wasn’t asphyxia also seem to have been correct. Not excusing the cop in pointing this out, I think incorrect procedure caused the trauma that resulted in death. All totally avoidable.

 

[dvdjs]

COD wasn’t asphyxia

Has that been established?
The coroner’s report ruled out traumatic asphyxia, but that is a special type of asphyxia.

 

[Theo520]

Has that been established?
The coroner’s report ruled out traumatic asphyxia, but that is a special type of asphyxia.

Haven’t you read the reports?
And why do you think it matters if it was strangulation or a heart attack from the stress?

George Floyd autopsy: no sign of traumatic asphyxia or strangling

The autoposy from Hennepin says there was no signs of strangulation despite the video evidence that spread around the world and caused protests in Minnesota.

en.as.com

 

[dvdjs]

Haven’t you read the reports?

Yes I have.

You seem to have missed the point in my post The one autopsy done so far, as the headline in your link notes, indicated that there was no sign of “traumatic asphyxia”. That is different than “positional asphyxia”, which has been associated with the retraining posture in which Floyd was held.

 

[JanR]

The degree of murder he’s being charged with is Third Degree, which is also voluntary manslaughter. Some folks feel it should have been second, or even first degree murder, but those are harder to prove.

First Degree murder is premeditated, planned out in advance, carefully executed during and after the crime, as in trying to hide or erase evidence. No case here for that.

Second Degree murder is considered a crime of passion, and there has to be provable intent. And while pressing on the victim’s neck for eight full minutes and ignoring warnings that he was choking, and ignoring the victim’s only cries that he couldn’t breathe certainly LOOKS like his killing was intentional, some in a jury might argue otherwise. Intent is very hard to actually prove.

Third Degree murder, or voluntary manslaughter, is a reckless disregard for life that results in death. That is the charge most easily proven here. Nobody disputes that this cop showed a callous and reckless disregard for Mr. Floyd’s life, and that it did result in his death. That is the provable charge, and I would say beyond any reasonable doubt. The video itself is ample proof of that.

As much as we would like to see the rogue cop put away for the rest of his life, the prosecution cannot risk overcharging, or a jury will surely acquit. As it is, if he is convicted of the Third Degree Murder/Voluntary Manslaughter, he faces up to 25 years in prison. A Second Degree Murder conviction could result in double that time.

If justice is served and he is convicted of the obvious, and receives the maximum sentence, he will have 25 years to think about what he did, he will never again be a police officer (he was fired), and he won’t be doing that to anyone else (unless it’s a fellow inmate).

The prosecution has to go with what can be proven, and is most likely to result in a conviction. That’s IF the jury is fair and does the right thing. No guarantee there, either, but I see no other justifiable verdict.

 

[Theo520]

You seem to have missed the point in my post The one autopsy done so far, as the headline in your link notes, indicated that there was no sign of “traumatic asphyxia”. That is different than “positional asphyxia”, which has been associated with the retraining posture in which Floyd was held.

One is normally enough and asphyxia wasn’t listed as cause.

You ignored my question, why does it matter if “asphyxia” is specifically included in the COD? The methods used during his arrest were wrong and clearly are indicated in his premature death.

 

[pnewton]

He was walking and breathing before his arrest, so there is that. If we ignore the knee to the neck, the finding that he was not asphyxiated, there is still the problem of keeping him down on his chest when he was in medical distress, and holding him in that position. Once he was hand-cuffed, he should have be transitioned to a sitting position to take the pressure off his heart.

Another poster believes part of the problem with police is the increased military mindset, with the accompanying military tactical training. There may be something to that. I would like to see tactical training transition to something more suited to the motto, “To serve and protect.” More to the point, training on any tactic should not be more than basic emergency care/medical training. No police should use any tactic without knowing all the medical risks associated with it and how to treat those in distress.

 

[gracepoole]

If you can talk, you can breathe.

False. And dangerously false.

'If you say you can't breathe, you're breathing': A Mississippi mayor defended the officer who stood on George Floyd's neck

Petal, Mississippi, Mayor Hal Marx tweeted Floyd likely "died of overdose or heart attack" and that Minneapolis police are being "crucified."

www.insider.com