Miserable with NFP!

[PennitentMan]

Hi PM…

One question that just came to mind… you mentioned your wife is ill. I’m sorry you have to deal with that illness in your marriage. Could this illness be affecting her fertility? How fluctual are her cycles? The reason I ask is because there are illnesses (like PCOS and thyroid related issues) that can affect fertility signs… making them difficult to read and understand. Often times when you address the root cause of the illness then the side effects of irregular fertility can be corrected.
Maybe something to consider looking into.

Having only 5-7 days per month is NOT normal. You are obviously dealing with a unique case with your wife’s health issues. This may simply be a cross for you to bear within YOUR marriage. NFP did not cause this to happen, nor is it to blame for your wife’s health issues. NFP may be difficult to use for those who have health concerns. Again, this isn’t caused by NFP… so NFP can’t be blamed here.

I’m sorry you are struggling. I will keep you in my prayers.

We have a pro-NFP Doctor and he says that her illness is not related to her cycles.
We have done a myriad of tests, including hormones, thyroid, etc. to see if it may influence it, but it’s not.

All I know is that before NFP all was well, after we started it went downhill.

Here’s why I blame NFP:

The times when my wife is amorous, are the fertile times, when intercourse is to be avoided. When she is infertile, and we can engage in intercourse, she is not in the mood and has to work very hard on it.
It’s unnatural, not spontaneous and robotic to make love like that.

And that is within a normal cycle, not even with my wife’s irregular cycles. Throw my wife’s irregular cycle into the mix and we are hooped.

Thanks for your prayers though, I appreciate it.

 

[PennitentMan]

You know, the leader of a 2000 year old institution started by a man that got nailed to a cross approves of this method.

I don’t get why people think a practice that involves discipline, learning physiological and biological concepts, adhering to daily routines and being open to spiritual growth is easy.

I mean, the pope totally endorses this. The church says it’s something that can be used in situations and not be sinful. Don’t you all think that’s a pretty good hint that things are going to be painful and hard?

Is marriage supposed to be hard? Is it supposed to be a struggle just to be intimate with your wife? That’s supposed to come naturally…this is totally unnatural.

 

[kage_ar]

Marriage is hard work, if it was not - we would not need the grace of a Sacrament!!

If someone told you marriage is always easy, do not buy a used car from them cause they lie. There are good times, there are bad times, times when it is as easy as falling off a log and times when prayer and faith will be the only thing you feel you have in common. When your spouse is really your best friend, in those hard times you can know your friend will stick by you.

Marriage is not always easy, but it is always worth it.

 

[PennitentMan]

I still don’t think we are quite communicating though. I THINK I hear you say that you feel like the abstinence duration pushes a man towards pornography. Porn isn’t intimacy, and neither is an affair (I suppose a long term one could resemble it though). Intimacy, properly defined, is a love based on KNOWING the loved one. The fact that you cite a lack of intimacy as a push towards porn seems like a non sequitor to me UNLESS the person making the claim has fallen for this world’s confusion between passion and lust. To the average man on the street, there is no difference. In christian teaching there sure is!

I hear what you are saying and you are right. Pornography is surely not intimacy. But lack of intimacy has a snowballing effect, believe me, I know.

Let me tell you how it works:
It starts by you missing your wife. Wanting to be with her and to be intimate with her. You long to share your soul with the one you love. You try time and time again, different approaches, and angles, different gestures, different times. You get shot down. Then, you get frustrated and lonely.

After that, you start noticing other women, even by accident, on TV or walking down the road…and the feelings that you squashed deep inside of you wake up. You tell yourself that there is nothing wrong with appreciating beauty. Before long you like the feeling you get from looking at beautiful women.
You try to direct that attention to your wife again, for fear of stumbling into Mortal Sin. You get shot down repeatedly. Those feelings turn to frustration and increased loneliness and then resentment.

You sit alone at night staring out the window fighting the urges welling up inside of you. You can’t go out jogging or anything, because you have a sleeping baby that you will have to take care of if it wakes up, since your wife is resting.
You pray, daily. You do the rosary, begging for these feelings to be taken away from you.
You go to sleep next to the woman you love, you smell her hair, you feel he breath on your neck, but your advances are stopped.

Those feelings eventually blow like a volcano. And where do you turn for any sort of affection? The only place where it is freely available. Pornography.

This is the lure of porn. It’s an open invitation where you will find passion and total acceptance.

These feelings are not what you initially sought, but it’s where that road of tumultuous emotions ends.

It doesn’t start with lust. It starts with the yearning to be close to the person you love.
The problem is that no matter how long you talk, there is no solution. You know this. Your wife knows this. It’s how things are. It’s because we could not be intimate when we both wanted to be.

 

[PennitentMan]

Marriage is hard work, if it was not - we would not need the grace of a Sacrament!!

If someone told you marriage is always easy, do not buy a used car from them cause they lie. There are good times, there are bad times, times when it is as easy as falling off a log and times when prayer and faith will be the only thing you feel you have in common. When your spouse is really your best friend, in those hard times you can know your friend will stick by you.

Marriage is not always easy, but it is always worth it.

Of course you will have your ups and downs, but marriage is supposed to be the one place that you can find solace from the storms out there. Your friend and lover, your companion.

To willingly engage in something that will shake the foundation of your marraige is just not right bby me.

How many folks have already come out saying that NFP is horrible for them too?

It’s a problem. Not everyone fit into the NFP bubble. And not everyone is ready to have more kids (For whatever reason).
What happens when you have people that deosn’t work with NFP and are not ready to have kids?

You get unhappy people. You get frustrated and lonely people. You get people with too many kids that they can’t handle. Emotionally, or spiritually or financially.

The problem is that there is no alternative. The only alternative is mortal sin.

Sucks don’t it? But hey, it’s life, suck it up. Pffft.

Sorry, this frustration is not directed at you at all. I’m not sure who it’s directed at. No one really, just feeling VERY boxed in and angry right now.

 

[StratusRose]

PM,

I’m finding it very hard to understand why you blame your marriage problems on NFP. It’s an inanimate concept, you can take it or leave it. I think you’re on the right track when you say you can see the problems in your marriage with yourself or even your wife (and her sickness). How is NFP to blame? It is what it is. So if you have an unruly child who is causing stress in your home that causes marital problems, whose fault is it? Seems like you are blaming outside sources for your marital woes.

I can see why the abstinence is hard, but did you not practice abstinence before you married your wife? My DH and I remained abstinate for almost 3 1/2 years before we married, so to us, waiting a week or more to have sex is a small sacrifice.

 

[PennitentMan]

PM,

I’m finding it very hard to understand why you blame your marriage problems on NFP. It’s an inanimate concept, you can take it or leave it. I think you’re on the right track when you say you can see the problems in your marriage with yourself or even your wife (and her sickness). How is NFP to blame? It is what it is. So if you have an unruly child who is causing stress in your home that causes marital problems, whose fault is it? Seems like you are blaming outside sources for your marital woes.

No I can’t “leave it” because another pregnancy will most probably kill my wife.

Now, read my previous posts to find out why I blame NFP, I have posted this many many many times in this thread as well as others. Go ahead and read. My marriage is fine, my sex life is in shambles because of NFP though. Go and read my posts.

I started posting on this thread to help other people understand that they are not alone in their dislike of NFP. I know I can’t do anything about it, I’m just giving support.
This thread started because people dislike NFP. Can’t you people understand that it’s not perfect???
It’s not marital difficulties that cause this, it’s not bad children, or any other reason you can point your finger at to distract us from the reality that NFP is not perfect and forcing it on people by having them think their problems lies elsewhere and believing that NFP is the end all and be all of marital bliss is wrong.

NFP is not perfect and it causes problems. Not for everyone but surely for a big portion of Catholics. Plain and simple. No amount of finger pointing and distraction will change this fact.

If more folks can understand that then we have made some headway here.

so to us, waiting a week or more to have sex is a small sacrifice.

Good for you. Really. But you can’t super-impose your life on mine and expect it to solve my problems.

The cold fact is that NFP causes problems for lots of people.

Understand that.

 

[kage_ar]

Of course you will have your ups and downs, but marriage is supposed to be the one place that you can find solace from the storms out there. Your friend and lover, your companion.

Don’t worry, I’m not easily offended

For me, the one place where I can find solace from the storms out there is in God, His Church is the firm foundation - the ROCK.

Is it great to have my spouse standing beside me on that Rock - and thank GOD because of our shared Faith, many times I slip or get confused, my spouse my best friend can point me back to the Rock or toss me a rope to tow me into the safe Harbor of the Faith.

Question - do you and your wife pray together?

 

[PennitentMan]

your wife pray together?

All the time.

Before each meal, at night time before bed, driving past a church, driving past a graveyard, even a rosary every so often. We surely pray together.

 

[Em_in_FL]

No I can’t “leave it” because another pregnancy will most probably kill my wife.

NFP is not perfect and it causes problems. Not for everyone but surely for a big portion of Catholics. Plain and simple. No amount of finger pointing and distraction will change this fact.

If more folks can understand that then we have made some headway here.

Good for you. Really. But you can’t super-impose your life on mine and expect it to solve my problems.

The cold fact is that NFP causes problems for lots of people.

Understand that.

Do you seriously question the Church’s fundamental teachings on why ABC is wrong just because it’s difficult for you to implement?
(BTW… even if you resorted to ABC it sounds like your uber-fertility would render the statistics of ABC useless too!)

Then what are your options as a good Catholic?

My grandparents had separate beds…
Maybe that’s something to consider?

 

[rc8]

Dear PM,

I have been where you are at many times and may have those same feelings of frustration and rejection in the future.

Our situation does not sound to different from yours. In fact, it is very similar. One thing that has helped me is to not expect anything during the “go times” as you call them. When I expect something, it only makes me frustrated and angry if things do not go my way. I let my wife let me know if she is in the mood. If I don’t expect anything, I can’t be disappointed.

Yes, sex is much more infrequent than it used to be. And there are definitely times when it bothers me more than others. But, I know the emptiness and destruction that would be caused in our marriage if we resorted to ABC or sterilization. It would be far more destructive than what you describe.

I often think of married saints like St Thomas Moore who gave up everything for God. Just because we are Christians, does not mean that we will have marital bliss. There are couples who have to abstain for short periods of time and some for longer and some
for the rest of there lives (Ex: where 1 person is unable to have sex). We live in an imperfect world but are called to strive for perfection. The greater our suffering, the more we can offer it up to the Lord, and the more good will come of it. Does that make it any easier on us? No, not right now but God will bless you in heaven if you persevere. And things will probably turn around for the better at some point in the future.

 

[PennitentMan]

Do you seriously question the Church’s fundamental teachings on why ABC is wrong just because it’s difficult for you to implement?

If I was the only one, I’d shut up.

(BTW… even if you resorted to ABC it sounds like your uber-fertility would render the statistics of ABC useless too!)

How did this turn into me being a pro-ABC advocate? I never said that here…

My grandparents had separate beds…
Maybe that’s something to consider?

Well, that is the only solution isn’t it? Abstinence and no contact with the spouse…for both of us. Gotta luv that kind of “marriage”.

 

[Em_in_FL]

If I was the only one, I’d shut up.

How did this turn into me being a pro-ABC advocate? I never said that here…

Well, that is the only solution isn’t it? Abstinence and no contact with the spouse…for both of us. Gotta luv that kind of “marriage”.

I wasn’t trying to suggest you were pro-ABC, I actually had never read your opinion on ABC… I was just offering the other obvious solutions that exist in the world.

If pregnancy would kill your wife, and you’re not pro-ABC, then the only alternatives would be NFP (allowing some time for marital embrace) or complete abstinence.

Sounds like you (and the OP) would LIKE to fall into the NFP category, but you have not been pleased with the implementation or the effectivity… correct?

Then the best advice that many of us have offered here is to increase your education of NFP. There is a LOT to learn, and a single, one-time, pre-marital class is simply not enough most of the time.
Those of us who really love and embrace NFP read a LOT on the subject and educate ourselves constantly.
There are also other methods than the sympto-thermal out there that may even work better for you (marquette, billings, creighton, etc)! Look into those!

You’re rightfully frustrated. But there are different ways to approach the problem than just saying “NFP sucks”…
You simply haven’t explored all the options.

 

[kage_ar]

Well, that is the only solution isn’t it? Abstinence and no contact with the spouse…for both of us. Gotta luv that kind of “marriage”.

Who said no contact? Good heavens, even those who abstain for loooooonnnnnnggggg periods of time have great contact and closeness.

Have you not seen some of these lovely couples, they adore each other and exude such a glow of peace and love.

 

[Sure]

PM,

It seems that your complaint should be with your wife’s condition and not NFP. After all, if it weren’t for NFP you would not even have any marital intimacy at all. It seems to me NFP at least allows you some times when you can enjoy each other. I understand that you wish that you didn’t have to use NFP at all, but unfortunately, you do. The cross you bear is your wife’s condition, thankfully NFP would seem to lighten that cross a bit.

 

[MCL]

I agree that the challenges of NFP are great. Our journey went something like this:

Married.
Used barrier methods.
Got pregnant.
Had first baby before first anniversary.
Both worked full-time jobs to pay off huge student loans.
Second child.
Much job-related travel for both of us.
Me (Mom) quit job to take care of hearth and home.
Began deepening our spiritual life. Became convinced that birth control was equated with not trusting God.
Began using NFP.
Husband traveled each week for 10 years.
Talk about trying to schedule intimacy! We would laugh that God was using my husband’s travel as a form of birth control!
Oh, another baby.
Severe PPD.
Husband still traveling.
Another baby. (This one sent my husband over the edge. He was in denial for quite awhile and wouldn’t even discuss the pregnancy)
Husband loses job.
Husband finds self-employed consulting work.
Husband still traveling.
Pregnancy with miscarriage.

Our oldest is now 20 and the youngest is 8.
My husband now has a job locally! Yeah!

In our situation, I was the one who would crave intimacy. My husband was a nervous wreck. “Is it okay? Is it safe? Are you sure?”

We would also joke that we were a disastrous combination. That I was “over-sexed” and he was “easy”!

There were times when we “fell off the wagon”. We always felt guilty.

The past 20 years have been a physical, emotional, and spiritual roller coaster. It certainly wasn’t easy. In the long run, I wish I was more prepared before we married with regard to the proper teachings and usage of NFP.

A note of encouragement: it doesn’t last forever. Since we are older our chances of getting pregnant are slim. For the last few years, we have given God complete reign. Stick with it, it gets better.

 

[Quinault]

PM; Have you spoken with your priest about this? When the rubber hits the road what HE says is more important than anything random strangers online say. It is interesting. On every other subject on any other thread EVERYONE says “talk to your priest.” But somehow they DON’T when it comes to NFP issues.

 

[TOP]

Yeah, “when the rubber hits the road”! Put me in the camp of not liking NFP either. I’ve been with my wife since we where 17. We are now 36 and sex just isn’t like it used to be, all the time! I want to be 17 again and have it all the time, but be in communion with the Church. Would you all pray for this for me?

 

[kage_ar]

PM; Have you spoken with your priest about this? When the rubber hits the road what HE says is more important than anything random strangers online say. It is interesting. On every other subject on any other thread EVERYONE says “talk to your priest.” But somehow they DON’T when it comes to NFP issues.

Sadly, many of us have run across Priests who will advise contrary to the teaching of the Church. For those who have a good solid 150% behind the Church Priest, advise to talk to your priest goes without saying

 

[Quinault]

If a priest tells a couple that it is OK for them to practice BC other than NFP, who are you to question? In the grand scheme of things a priest that allows that is better than the priest that dressed up like Barney and said the mass. If the priest gives incorrect guidance it is on HIS head before God. Who are we to tell someone NOT TO submit to their priest? Talk to your priest, follow HIS guidance and ignore everyone else that doesn’t know you and your situation. Condemnation from random strangers over the computer shouldn’t keep you from following what your appointed spiritual director tells you to do. Or you can use BC anyway, and leave the church. Destroying a marriage is never a good idea. Personally I would choose birth control over a emotional or legal divorce.