Missing Sunday Mass - Mortal Sin, Venial Sin, or no sin at all?

[LilyM]

Just a bystander on this thread, but could someone expand on the quote by LilyM. “they’ll tend to be different degrees of mortal sin”

AS for the thread, I find it very interesting, and hope this discussion continues.

TIA,
jim

Well, it stands to reason. Mortal sin is a very broad category, and simply means any sin which is big enough to be deadly to the soul. In a sense we, as the perpetrators of this deadly sin, are the ‘murderers’ of our own soul, as we would be if we killed someone else’s body.

Surely you see and acknowledge that among murders some are more heinous than others, no? That there are degrees? A woman who, for example, catches her husband in the act of adultery and kills him is less serious than someone who casually kills a total stranger for no real reason?

Of course they’ll both be imprisoned for a long time. And of course both are guilty of the serious offence of murder. But within that category they could hardly be said to be equal.

 

[Abigail]

I agree, Ginko100! If you “can” go to Mass, you should. But how do you know whether conditions are such that you are excused? And if you are uncertain, does that mean you have sinned mortally, venially, or not at all?

For example I, like Mary, live in a rural area in a non-Catholic part of the country. The closest parish is at least 30 minutes away. Mass is at 5:00 pm on Saturday, and 9:30 am on Sunday.

Last week, I intended to go to Mass. Saturday evening the heat index readings were 108. My car does not have air conditioning. In the past, commuting for over an hour in that kind of heat has made me sick (chills, evidence of heat exhaustion, etc.). So, I didn’t go Saturday evening.

Sunday morning the weather was no better. By 9 am the heat index was over 100 and climbing, and predicted to be 108-110. I didn’t go to Mass. “Could” I have gone? “Should” I have gone? If my job was on the line I would have made the drive to keep my job. I wasn’t looking for an excuse not to go to Mass – I wanted to go. But didn’t think it was wise under the circumstances. Mortal sin, venial sin, or no sin at all?

 

[agstockstill]

The original post seems to just want to be accusatory of the church. My son has tried to play “elementary school lawyer” in the past. But he has found doing what he knows he is supposed to makes life easier and makes him happier too.

If you want to live in a world of what-ifs, go to my former church “THE EPISCOPAL cHURCH.” They have more shades of grey than you can imagine.

 

[JamesE24]

I agree, Ginko100! If you “can” go to Mass, you should. But how do you know whether conditions are such that you are excused? And if you are uncertain, does that mean you have sinned mortally, venially, or not at all?

For example I, like Mary, live in a rural area in a non-Catholic part of the country. The closest parish is at least 30 minutes away. Mass is at 5:00 pm on Saturday, and 9:30 am on Sunday.

Last week, I intended to go to Mass. Saturday evening the heat index readings were 108. My car does not have air conditioning. In the past, commuting for over an hour in that kind of heat has made me sick (chills, evidence of heat exhaustion, etc.). So, I didn’t go Saturday evening.

Sunday morning the weather was no better. By 9 am the heat index was over 100 and climbing, and predicted to be 108-110. I didn’t go to Mass. “Could” I have gone? “Should” I have gone? If my job was on the line I would have made the drive to keep my job. I wasn’t looking for an excuse not to go to Mass – I wanted to go. But didn’t think it was wise under the circumstances. Mortal sin, venial sin, or no sin at all?

Abigail, it is not our position to judge you. That is between, you, God, and your confessor. I would go to confession, and tell the confessor everything. He will help you understand if it was a mortal sin or not.

The Church’s requirement that we attend Mass every Sunday is actually very loving and kind. It ensures that even Catholics who do not take their faith very seriously get to hear the word of God, they get to participate in the worship of God, and the get to recieve the Body of God. It’s not cruel. And of course God is forgiving and loving, more so than we can possibly ever comprehend. However, He has told us to be obedient to the Church, which is the Body of Christ, and the Church tells us that we must attend Mass every Sunday (if possible).

Like I said before, it is not our place to judge you. It is grave matter to deliberatly skip mass on Sunday, but it sounds like you were confused and not sure what to do. I would just ask in Confession and after that, try as hard as you can to attend Mass on Sunday.

I don’t have a Catechism, but if someone wanted to post what it says on this subject, that would be very helpful to this discussion.

 

[Abigail]

agstockstill

I assure you that my purpose in posting this thread was not to be an “elementary school lawyer.” Nor was it to discuss my personal decisions – I simply used my last post as an example.

Many, many Catholics are frequently put into positions where they do not know whether what they are doing is sinful. The Catechism states the rules, but doesn’t always go into concrete examples. We get conflicting opinions from various Catholic and secular media, and from our pastors – some say something is sinful, some say it isn’t.

We are required to confess mortal sins, but not venial sins. Yet the distinction between the two is not clear. It is avoiding the issue to suggest that one merely go to confession anyway, and ask the priest.

God does not intend us to live in uncertainty. It may seem very clear to some people what sin is and isn’t, but I don’t think those lucky people should assume it is for the rest of us. And it isn’t because we are looking for an excuse or are trying to accuse the Church…I think that’s a pretty mean-spirited suggestion.

 

[JamesE24]

agstockstill

I assure you that my purpose in posting this thread was not to be an “elementary school lawyer.” Nor was it to discuss my personal decisions – I simply used my last post as an example.

Many, many Catholics are frequently put into positions where they do not know whether what they are doing is sinful. The Catechism states the rules, but doesn’t always go into concrete examples. We get conflicting opinions from various Catholic and secular media, and from our pastors – some say something is sinful, some say it isn’t.

We are required to confess mortal sins, but not venial sins. Yet the distinction between the two is not clear. It is avoiding the issue to suggest that one merely go to confession anyway, and ask the priest.

God does not intend us to live in uncertainty. It may seem very clear to some people what sin is and isn’t, but I don’t think those lucky people should assume it is for the rest of us. And it isn’t because we are looking for an excuse or are trying to accuse the Church…I think that’s a pretty mean-spirited suggestion.

Um, how is the distinction not clear? If one commits a grave sin with full knowledge and consent then it is mortal. If not, then it is venial. That’s pretty clear. The Catechism defines full knowledge and deliberate consent. Look it up there and see. If you are worried that you commited a mortal sin in this particular case, then ask the priest about this particular case. If it is not just this case, but a more general thing, then read it in the Catechism.

I don’t think it is avoiding the issue to ask the priest in confession. That is what all the saints suggest. They say to tell you spiritual director everything, and let them decide over things like that. You’re emotions are involved. A priest’s wont be.

 

[HolySpirit08]

I missed Sunday mass this past week as well. So much is going on in my life right now that I am in a very bad place emotionally. I struggled to shower and get dressed which I accomplished with much frustration for a number of reasons. When I was finally able to get out the door I realized that I would be late for Mass and only drove have the distance and gave up. I was so depressed ( again because of a number of things going on in my life right now and for the past two months) that I just couldn’t bear not only being late and calling attention to myself in this small community but because I just could not go through all of that “peace be with you” interaction. I just couldn’t do it.

Quite frankly, I don’t care what anyone on this board thinks of me because this is between God and me. I don’t love God any less for not going. I couldn’t bear to interact with other people and was not in the emtional state to participate in mass. I realized too that if I had been more constant in my prayer life, I probably would have had the strength to attend this particular mass and to put up with the hugs and hand shaking of the “peace be with you” ritual.

How many have actually missed mass because you couldn’t bear one more “peace be with you”? I find it very annoying.

Sorry for the negetivity.

 

[Dorothy]

WOW! The responses to this question really surprise me!

My father was a pretty serous guy. He hosted a weekly Sunday dinner, and he expected everyone to be there. BUT, if every once in a while someone couldn’t make it, he never would have thrown them out of the family. He understood that sometimes, things happen. He loved his children enough to sympathize with them rather than blame them (the sabbath is made for man, rather than man being made for the sabbath).

HOWEVER, if someone didn’t show up and told him the reason was that they were sick and tired of feeling obligated, and that they weren’t going to ever come again because they didn’t like him and didn’t believe he had any right to insist that he attend, my father probably would have thrown him out (for a while, until he came to his senses).

Am I really reading this correctly - that people think that someone who doesn’t go to Mass because they hate God is less culpable than someone who succumbs to human weakness?

That doesn’t sound like a loving father. A loving father wouldn’t say, “come, enjoy my company and my hospitality. It is open to you, every week. But woe unto you if you can’t make it. You will then be cast into the outer darkness, regardless of whether you love me or not.”

Think about all Our Lord did for us!

"Mary" knew better than to succumb to "weakness" because it was mentioned that she planned to go to confession before her next communion.   The bad music, even a bad priest...does not take away from the awesome gift of the Eucharist which is given to us at the Mass.

The Lord doesn’t cast anyone into the “outer darkness”. We do it ourselves by giving in to our desires.
The Lord loves us unconditionally…it is we who make excuses to not love Him unconditionally by giving in to rationalization to not make it to Mass, when we would make it to work!

One can rationalize all they want…it is presumption on God’s infinite mercy that is wrong also.

 

[Dorothy]

I agree, Ginko100! If you “can” go to Mass, you should. But how do you know whether conditions are such that you are excused? And if you are uncertain, does that mean you have sinned mortally, venially, or not at all?

For example I, like Mary, live in a rural area in a non-Catholic part of the country. The closest parish is at least 30 minutes away. Mass is at 5:00 pm on Saturday, and 9:30 am on Sunday.

Last week, I intended to go to Mass. Saturday evening the heat index readings were 108. My car does not have air conditioning. In the past, commuting for over an hour in that kind of heat has made me sick (chills, evidence of heat exhaustion, etc.). So, I didn’t go Saturday evening.

Sunday morning the weather was no better. By 9 am the heat index was over 100 and climbing, and predicted to be 108-110. I didn’t go to Mass. “Could” I have gone? “Should” I have gone? If my job was on the line I would have made the drive to keep my job. I wasn’t looking for an excuse not to go to Mass – I wanted to go. But didn’t think it was wise under the circumstances. Mortal sin, venial sin, or no sin at all?

That sounds like a serious reason to not go to Mass…a good chance of suffering severely from the heat due to no air conditioning in the car.

 

[Spiritoftruth]

…i would only suggest one test. You decide to miss mass for whatever reason you feel is justified. Now all you have to do is sell it to St Peter if you croak off schedule, and his first question to you is… what was YOUR reason/s?

good luck:thumbsup:

 

[agstockstill]

…i would only suggest one test. You decide to miss mass for whatever reason you feel is justified. Now all you have to do is sell it to St Peter if you croak off schedule, and his first question to you is… what was YOUR reason/s?

I like your style, short and to-the-point!

 

[Abigail]

SpiritofTruth - I don’t understand your last post.

If I believed I were justified for missing Mass, died, and was asked the reason, I would give the reason. If I was wrong I would humbly beg forgiveness. In my example, I would say I had not gone to Mass because of the heat. Are you suggesting that I wished to be separated from God because of that decision, or that God would send me to Hell because of it?

HolySpirit08 - I understand what you are saying completely. Intellectually, we know that the Mass is the source and summit of our faith, and a great gift. However, it is sometimes not easy for us to see or experience that. The way many Masses are conducted now (a lot of interaction between parishioners, an emphasis on joyfulness, uplifting songs) can be very hard on people who are suffering emotionally and who feel alienated. And, yes, I know it’s not all about “feelings.” There are those who will claim we “shouldn’t” find Mass to be a trial or an unpleasant experience, but the fact is that some do. It is a very virtuous thing for them to overcome the temptation to avoid Mass…I am not so sure it is a MORTAL sin if every once in a while they fail.

 

[JamesE24]

SpiritofTruth - I don’t understand your last post.

If I believed I were justified for missing Mass, died, and was asked the reason, I would give the reason. If I was wrong I would humbly beg forgiveness. In my example, I would say I had not gone to Mass because of the heat. Are you suggesting that I wished to be separated from God because of that decision, or that God would send me to Hell because of it?

HolySpirit08 - I understand what you are saying completely. Intellectually, we know that the Mass is the source and summit of our faith, and a great gift. However, it is sometimes not easy for us to see or experience that. The way many Masses are conducted now (a lot of interaction between parishioners, an emphasis on joyfulness, uplifting songs) can be very hard on people who are suffering emotionally and who feel alienated. And, yes, I know it’s not all about “feelings.” There are those who will claim we “shouldn’t” find Mass to be a trial or an unpleasant experience, but the fact is that some do. It is a very virtuous thing for them to overcome the temptation to avoid Mass…I am not so sure it is a MORTAL sin if every once in a while they fail.

You said it yourself. The Mass is THE source and summit of our faith. It IS our faith. The Eucharist is a pretaste of Heaven, of the Wedding Feast of the Lamb. Whether or not we feel it isn’t a criteria to justify skipping it. Ever.

If something is objectively wrong then it cannot be done. Period. Skipping Mass without a very good reason is objectively wrong. It cannot be done.

You said that you are not sure if someone who has this problem commits a mortal sin when they do it. I do not know either. But, I would say that they commit a grave sin. It seems to me that if you use an analogy it can help. Take someone who is greatly tempted to look at pornography. They are to be praised for overcoming the temptation, it’s true, but if they do not overcome the temptation and they do fall, they commit a grave sin. That’s objectively true. Just so, someone who is tempted to skip Mass because of their feelings is to be praised when they overcome that temptation, but when they do not, they commit a grave sin.

 

[Sheeniac]

is going on a remote trip, i.e. a cruise, and missing Sunday mass a mortal sin (there is no mass on board the ship?) and is it wrong to take a fellow catholic with you, indirectly (or perhaps directly) causing them to miss mass as well?

I believe you can be excused from attending ahead of time by your priest. If you can go to Mass while on vacation, please do. In addition to fulfilling your obligation, you get to see a lot of cool churches!

 

[Sheeniac]

I missed Sunday mass this past week as well. So much is going on in my life right now that I am in a very bad place emotionally. I struggled to shower and get dressed which I accomplished with much frustration for a number of reasons. When I was finally able to get out the door I realized that I would be late for Mass and only drove have the distance and gave up. I was so depressed ( again because of a number of things going on in my life right now and for the past two months) that I just couldn’t bear not only being late and calling attention to myself in this small community but because I just could not go through all of that “peace be with you” interaction. I just couldn’t do it.

Quite frankly, I don’t care what anyone on this board thinks of me because this is between God and me. I don’t love God any less for not going. I couldn’t bear to interact with other people and was not in the emtional state to participate in mass. I realized too that if I had been more constant in my prayer life, I probably would have had the strength to attend this particular mass and to put up with the hugs and hand shaking of the “peace be with you” ritual.

How many have actually missed mass because you couldn’t bear one more “peace be with you”? I find it very annoying.

Sorry for the negetivity.

I lean towards the belief that experiencing such depression is a reason not to go to Mass. However, if/when you are emotionally unwell, you do need to look into getting healthy.

 

[Sheeniac]

agstockstill
We are required to confess mortal sins, but not venial sins. Yet the distinction between the two is not clear. It is avoiding the issue to suggest that one merely go to confession anyway, and ask the priest.

Yes - mortal sins are required, venial sins not. However, I would suggest adding venial sins to your confession - it can only help you escape the snares of sin. Personally, I frequently add sins of omission (as we pray : ‘for what I have done, and what I have failed to do’ ). The grace we receive helps to keep us more focused on God.

Now - you might say ‘I’m more concerned about receiving Communion if I can’t get to Confession’. That’s a judgment you would need to make. Heat index - that seems to be a potentially health threatening situation, and I wouldn’t judge myself to be guilty of mortal sin.

I guess my rule of thumb is - if it’s unclear, give the benefit of doubt to God.

 

[hamburglar]

Missing Mass is grave matter. If she makes the decision to “confess before receiving Communion” that immediately tells me there is sufficient knowledge and full consent.

In addition, when she commits the mortal sin of missing Mass, she does so while also committing the sin of presumption because she plans on sinning with the plan on confessing it.

 

[Abigail]

Hmmmmm…

So, if we give in to weakness and plan to make it right with God later, we commit two sins, but if we give in to weakness without intending to make it right with God later we only commit one? Do we have to intend NOT to repent in order to avoid the sin of presumption?

 

[JamesE24]

Hmmmmm…

So, if we give in to weakness and plan to make it right with God later, we commit two sins, but if we give in to weakness without intending to make it right with God later we only commit one? Do we have to intend NOT to repent in order to avoid the sin of presumption?

If we intend not to repent after commiting a sin, then we are turning our backs on God completely and we are commiting another grave sin. However, if we sin with intention of going to Confession later, then we are committing the sin of presumption. You are looking at it as if God was a machine. If you do a then b happens, so plan to do c and it will all be better.

God is a person. He is more of a person, in fact, then we are. How would you feel if your best friend said, “I’ll steal your car, run it until I’m bored with it, and then I’ll sell it and keep the money. But, you’ll forgive me, right? You said you love me, right? Well, if you really loved me, you wouldn’t care if I stole your car. Besides, I’m weak. I really want to steal your car and since I don’t have any discipline, I can’t say no to myself.” That person wouldn’t be your friend for much longer, even if you loved them and wanted the best for them.

God does love us, but when we commit a sin and excuse ourselves by saying we were planning on going to confession later, we are saying we don’t love God as much as what we want to do.

 

[Spiritoftruth]

Hmmmmm…

So, if we give in to weakness and plan to make it right with God later, we commit two sins, but if we give in to weakness without intending to make it right with God later we only commit one? Do we have to intend NOT to repent in order to avoid the sin of presumption?

I would assume that we all have the grandest intentions to do what is right, but like most of us we fall short sometimes. Sin enters the picture. I hope to never reach the stage in my life where I don’t at least attempt to “make-it-right” in the confessional. Then I must firmly resolve to sin no more and try to avoid those occasions of sin. It’s not long before I am trying to “make-it-right” with God again. Oh well, and so it goes…

Peace