Mister De says "Muslims worship who they believe is God, but is none other than the Devil himself."

[ronyodish]

Dear Rony,
when i read your post to me i grow a great smile of love from you in your words.

Steven John,

Peace and blessings to you! The Lover by the Beloved in Love created you to be loved! Rejoice!

I am not against what you are saying to me (john 10:30) have you ever pondered if the word “one” is a translation of an understanding of unity?

If the word is Divine , which it is, I am called to read it with least contradiction so to see simple truth easily understood at my un educated level.

In Christian Tradition, we understand the teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ on “one” in John 10:30 to mean an Eternal Unity of Divine Essence. In other words, Jesus (the Incarnate Son) is Eternally in Unity with the Father by Divine Essence/Nature.

Did you understand the equality on your own from prayer and the word or did a man teach it to you?

The God-Man, our Lord Jesus Christ, who is my Head, taught it through His Body the Church, to me a member of His Body.

If a man taught it to you I am sure they loved you and wanted well for you.

The God-Man, our Lord Jesus Christ, loves me to death, literally!

Many have taught this orally for a long time but a beautiful Catholic woman taught me before she died that when she was young they could not afford the bible and made do with the oral teaching.
God commands i honor her and i need to look to the source.

As Catholics, we believe that the teachings of the Father through the Son in the Holy Spirit have been deposited in Holy Scripture and Holy Tradition, and is passed down from generation to generation by the Church through Apostolic Succession.

Then in unity with the Father acknowledging
His greatness,
my humanity,
and my share of Divinity
they can be unified “one”.

For us as mere men, our unity and oneness with the Father is begun by adoption (and not by Divine Essence) in Baptism. In Baptism we are made the adopted children of God, and we can cry out Abba! Father!

It is not the same with our Lord Jesus Christ. Jesus is not a mere man adopted as son by the Father, rather; He is by Divine Essence the Son of the Father, who was Incarnated as Man for us men and for our salvation. He is by Divine Essence One with the Father, who was united inseparably with a Human Essence (a Human Body and a Human Soul), becoming at conception Fully Man without loosing His Sonship as Fully God, one Person and not two Persons!!!

if i am to understand the way I am to be like a child this is easier without contradiction.

believing in the narrated words,
believing the Father is greater than each, and Jesus (PBWH) was in unity with Him when making the statement,
for me this does not lessen the gift.

The Unity that exists between the Father and His Word/Son is not merely a unity of agreement, rather; it is a Unity of Divine Essence. The Triune God is Eternally One in Divine Essence.

The Father is greater than Jesus by Human Essence/Nature, but One with Jesus by Divine Essence/Nature. For us mere men, the Triune God (Father, Son/Word, and Holy Spirit) is by His Divine Essence/Nature, greater than us, because we only have a Human Essence/Nature.

However, The Son/Word is by His Human Essence, united with us mere men, and this happened at His conception in the womb of the Virgin. In other words, our Lord Jesus Christ is by Divinity, One with the Father, and by Humanity, One with us, as One Head to One Body.

We enter into the Body of Christ through Baptism, and as adopted children of the Father, we are fed and nourished by the Son’s Body and Blood, and we rejoice in the Holy Spirit our comfort and guide who makes us holy as He is the Holy God!

 

[ronyodish]

Continued…

It also opens a platform for understanding with Muslims and Jews.

Remember Jesus (PBWH) was a Jew
and a Muslim (i have been told the interpretation of this word is “one who submits to God”)
the agony in the garden shows this well.

Our Lord Jesus Christ has two wills in inseparable unity, a Divine will and a Human will. The Divine will is the One will of the Triune God, the One will of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The Human will is the will that the Son created and assumed at conception.

In the agony of the garden, the Lord Jesus aligns Humanity with Divinity, aligns the Human will, which recoils from suffering and death, to the Divine will, which desires all men to be saved, in order to accomplish the redemption of men.

Yes, our Lord Jesus was a Jew by Human Essence, the Son by Divine Essence. As fully Man, Our Lord Jesus submitted His Human will to the Father, and as fully God, Our Lord Jesus receives the submission of the wills of all men who are graced to believe in Him.

It is a safe prayer (cant be wrong) platform praying to the Father ONLY
i aspire to follow the way of Jesus (PBWH) by praying to the Father ONLY.

Our Lord Jesus by His Human Essence prayed to the Father, and by His Divine Essence, received all the prayers made to the Father, through Him the Son, in the Holy Spirit.

When you pray to the Father, you are unknowingly praying to the Triune God, for all the prayers of mankind that are directed to God go through the Son to the Father in the Holy Spirit. Also, when we ask the Angels and Saints in heaven to pray to God for us, they do so by the permission of the Holy Triune God.

Jesus (PBWH) is narrated to have done this in his last breath.

Yes, for the Son (the Lord of Peace) loves the Father, and by His Human Essence, our Lord Jesus Christ (the Prince of Peace), prayed to the Father to teach us mere men how to pray lovingly to the Father.

The God i pray to sees all and knows all He only questions so i question and learn.

The God you pray to is the incomprehensible and all-knowing, all-seeing, all-loving, Triune God of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, even though you might not yet acknowledge His Trinitarian Divine Essence.

The God you pray to sent His Word to men to enlighten all men, and the Word became Flesh and dwelt among us, full of Grace and Truth, the only Son of the Father, fully God and fully Man, even though you might not yet acknowledge His Incarnation.

If i was to believe Jesus (PBWH) is / was God equally there will still be no error in my prayer.

If God is greater then Jesus (PBWH) (not separating divinity and humanity) my pray could be seen as against the way of Jesus (PBWH) who taught to pray with the Father.

It would not be against the Lord Jesus Christ to knowingly pray to the Father through Him in the Holy Spirit. Jesus tells us: “Come to me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest” (Matt. 11:28), and “All that the Father gives me will come to me; and him who comes to me I will not cast out” (John 6:37), but you will not be able to acknowledge in prayer the Lord Jesus Christ until the Father draws you.

It is the Father that draws all men to His Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, for we read: “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him” (John 6:44). It is our Lord Jesus Christ who draws all men to the Father, for we read: “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but by me” (John 14:6).

To increase our awareness a question we can ponder is "while havening faith in Jesus (PBWH) do we want the faith of Jesus (PBWH)?

By His Human Essence, the One Inseperable Lord Jesus Christ obeyed His Father, even obedience unto death, and therefore we the members of His Body, the Church, are called to “keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus” (Rev. 14:12).

In doing so, we are reminded that “what was promised to faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe” (Gal. 3:22) and “in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise” (Gal. 3:26-29).

I love you brother and feel blessing in your communication to me.
I am not a good communicator and pray to Our Father He correct the words i type so you see what it is He has revealed and not my lack of education.

May He keep and bless you and yours for generations to come.

I love you too in the name of the Father who creates! I love you too in the name of the Son who redeems! I love you too in name of the Holy Spirit who sanctifies!

I will not be able to respond to any responses in the next three weeks or so, due to some academic commitments, but God willing, I will try and respond afterwards.

Take care, and God bless you always

Rony

 

[Steven_John]

Though I believe God loves us all equally, we are all equally responsible for what we do in this life. Islam doesn’t get a free pass. It has enough hatred, abuse, opression and injustice to go around, much of which is not even acknowledged, let alone dealt with.

If that’s to change someone needs to keep pointing it out. There are many good people here who do so, not out of hatred but

“I believe Mohammed was either delusional, or a dupe of Satan.”

“Do you get this from reading and praying about the Quran?
From the Muslims you mix with?
prayer or the TV?”

I don’t think what you see people have done and are doing wrong in the name of Islam is sufficient to make your claim.

For me it makes your statement delusional (i say this with respect i doubt you are delusional)

But if you stand by it

You hold Jesus (PBWH) to be the same for atrocities in the name of Christianity It had and has enough hatred, abuse, oppression and injustice to go around, much of which is not acknowledged.

I agree things always need to be shown so we (people that believe in justice and mercy) can act as we believe so to bring change.

May God bless you and yours keep close to your Christian and Muslim friends and gently remind them when you see them astray.

 

[Steven_John]

“I believe Mohammed was either delusional, or a dupe of Satan.”

“Do you get this from reading and praying about the Quran?
From the Muslims you mix with?
prayer or the TV?”

I don’t think what you see people have done and are doing wrong in the name of Islam is sufficient to make your claim.

For me it makes your statement delusional (i say this with respect i doubt you are delusional)

But if you stand by it

You hold Jesus (PBWH) to be the same for atrocities in the name of Christianity It had and has enough hatred, abuse, oppression and injustice to go around, much of which is not acknowledged.

I agree things always need to be shown so we (people that believe in justice and mercy) can act as we believe so to bring change.

May God bless you and yours keep close to your Christian and Muslim friends and gently remind them when you see them astray.

I must appolagise to you, after much prayer i am guided to correct my statment to,

(But if you stand by it

You COULD BE SEEN TO hold Jesus (PBWH) to be the same for atrocities in the name of Christianity It had and has enough hatred, abuse, oppression and injustice to go around, much of which is not acknowledged."

Sorry for making statement for your heart to other persons.

 

[R_not]

Do they not worship the God of Abraham? Has not the Vatican agreed that they do. This religion may have been created by Evil men or Evil intentions but we know that God uses the Evil of men to accomplish good.

I would have to say they certainly believe in the same Father we do, but there worship and understanding is deficient.

Peace!

No, they do not worship the God of Abraham. That is only a muslim’s claim. allah is fashioned after mohammed’s pagan god who was indeed the main god in a pantheon of gods and goddesses. Right now the youtube, and other sites, are being flooded with the claims that allah was not a moon god and they give this or that reason for it. It is their way of censoring the truth and gee, they successfully get the videos that do show the history of islam and allah censored quite often. I now copy anything I find since I know muslim’s tactics now.

mohammed even tried to include three goddesses from his pagan religion and was advised not to do that. They were al-lat, al-uaaz, and Manat.

none of the other two religions run around a rock, spit, snort, throw rocks and then run to another rock but the followers of mohammed’s pagan religion did indeed do that.

Some books, ‘The life and Religion of mohammed’ is a good one. You can usually find it on the internet - the muslims have successfully gotten that book censored from many places also.

mohammed threw in the bible stories because he wanted to convert the Jews and Christians of his time. He didn’t know then hence - they are not correct. but, here is the cagey part - he said that WE were the ones who changed the stories and for that we are condemned. And he said that if the muslims do that to the koran THEY will be condemned just like we are.

Now, some in Turkey are writing up a new version of the koran - well, that is for us because we want islam to change. So, they will show us this book and we will think that they are changing and whenever they quote from the koran they will probably use that one. Well, that will be a bunch of hooey and we should never discount the koran that THEY read.

 

[MH84]

mohammed even tried to include three goddesses from his pagan religion and was advised not to do that. They were al-lat, al-uaaz, and Manat.

Link for this please.

 

[R_not]

My position is a simple one. Muhammad was either insane, lying, was tricked by the Devil, or was the Devil himself. I tend to lean towards option three.

Muslims believe the Qur’an is the word of God. As a Catholic, I would never believe such a thing. I believe the Bible to be the Word of God. If the Quran is not God‘s word, who’s word is it then?

Muslims worship the “god” who inspired the Qur’an. If God (the one true God of the Bible) did not inspire the Qur’an, then who are Muslims truly worshiping? Certainly not the God who inspired the Bible. The Qur’an strongly denies Christ, rejects the Trinity, orders the murder of pagans, and encourages violence against Jews/Christians. Sounds like things Satan would order, not God.

Do any Christians actually believe the Angel Gabriel visited Muhammad for 20 years, spoke to him, and relayed the message of “god”? Now, assuming Muhammad wasn’t insane or lying, and assuming Muhammad himself wasn’t Satan, then who was the angel really? I severely doubt it was Gabriel. The angel visiting Muhammad, if there even was an angel, could only have been Satan.

I know Muslims believe they are following the Creator, the one true God, but they are following Satan’s word, not God’s.

“And no wonder: for Satan himself transformeth himself into an angel of light.”
– 2 Corinthians 11:14

Muhammad was duped.

I think it was Lucifer. And why do I believe that? Because he is the prince of lies. And what group of people are sanctioned to lie if they feel cornered, threatened, or to smooth over their ‘religion’? muslims.

islamreview.com/articles/lying.shtml

But, it could also be this - brain damage.

When mohammed was in Mecca the koran was relatively peaceful. Between his migration from Mecca to Medina something happened - and the Medina surahs in the koran became violent. Violence is over 50% to 75% of the koran and is against infidels. One explanation is frontal lobe brain damage with a narcisstic personality.

What was did he say happened to himself? He was having fits and his lifestyle was one of a guy who lusted after many women and children. He even lusted after his stepson’s wife and created a surah saying allah ‘told him he could have his stepson’s wife’. mohammed realized the problems with adoption so forever after he said muslims should not adopt and that would not make it hard for his followers if they lusted after any woman.

Of course, we will never know. But, one can only study the cult leaders that we have in our own era. And mohammed falls into the same category.

 

[R_not]

Link for this please.

bible.ca/islam/islam-allahs-daughters.htm

It is also in a book, ‘The Life and Religion of mohammed’.

It can still be found on the internet.

Much is being censored by the muslims. there was a video of it but has since been censored because of muslim threats of violence to youtube employees.

There are other books too - but these should get you where you want to go. and I would suppose that the muslims will work on getting these censored so that is why I bought the book already and cut/pasted the web pages already.

 

[R_not]

“I believe Mohammed was either delusional, or a dupe of Satan.”

“Do you get this from reading and praying about the Quran?
From the Muslims you mix with?
prayer or the TV?”

I don’t think what you see people have done and are doing wrong in the name of Islam is sufficient to make your claim.

For me it makes your statement delusional (i say this with respect i doubt you are delusional)

But if you stand by it

You hold Jesus (PBWH) to be the same for atrocities in the name of Christianity It had and has enough hatred, abuse, oppression and injustice to go around, much of which is not acknowledged.

I agree things always need to be shown so we (people that believe in justice and mercy) can act as we believe so to bring change.

May God bless you and yours keep close to your Christian and Muslim friends and gently remind them when you see them astray.

Who, except muslims, would pray over a book of battle tactics against them?! The koran is just that. I tell people they should indeed read it and don’t worry - you won’t get converted to islam.

Who can believe the muslims that are claiming to be ‘moderate’? When they are sanctioned to lie from the koran/mohammed.

Now, you know that muslims are told not to make friends with us. You are misleading and lying even in your words that you think are oh so soothing. Here is an excerpt that shows us that your own koran tells you to smile while hating us:
jihadwatch.org/archives/015800.php

*“Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them” (Qur’an 3:28).

The Sunni Qur’an commentator Ibn Kathir explains that in this verse “Allah prohibited His believing servants from becoming supporters of the disbelievers, or to take them as comrades with whom they develop friendships, rather than the believers.” However, exempted from this rule were “those believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers. In this case, such believers are allowed to show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly. For instance, Al-Bukhari recorded that Abu Ad-Darda’ said, ‘We smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them.’ Al-Bukhari said that Al-Hasan said, ‘The Tuqyah [taqiyyah] is allowed until the Day of Resurrection.’"*

Basically, the koran is telling us that we should not trust even a ‘moderate’ muslim. Not only does it say to do despicable things to us, but it says it is ok to lie to us whenever a muslim feels like it - whether threatened, or in good spirits.

 

[Steven_John]

Thanks, this time you answered my questions and I to see some of your interpretation.

My interpretation is the Quran does contain more of rules of engagement than tactics.

The koran is just that

It also contains a lot more.

Who can believe the muslims that are claiming to be ‘moderate’? When they are sanctioned to lie from the koran/mohammed.

Many “Muslims” i have met are near clueless in regards to the contents of the Quran and repeat hearsay.

As many Christians are clueless to the contents of the bible and repeat hearsay.

I work to see God in all peoples and all religions its Catholic to do so, its Quranic also. I respect it maybe different in your religion but for me it is the same. My Father is the source of ALL creation.

I have never found Quranic (i am not very knowledgeable of it and still have not made it through) writing i interpret to permit lying some have offered me some quotes but i reckon it is a huge stretch to interpret so.

Please share with me quotes that you personally interpreted to permit lying

Now, you know that muslims are told not to make friends with us.

That is a out right lie on your part please quote your source that says i knew this as i did not.

Muslims where i live share about their faith and dogma with each other, gather regularly to do so, share meals and work side by side as equals. Obviously one thing they don’t do is get lessons on their own faith and dogma from each other.

For me your statement felt as you want to personally attack me and defame my character. other than ask you to share more with me what have i done to you? My intention was to ask nicely, I am at aloss to know how i could have even offended you. Sorry if i did.

You are misleading and lying even in your words that you think are oh so soothing

What words did did i say to you? I don’t even know i said I think my words are soothing?

Here is an excerpt that shows us that your own koran tells you to smile while hating us

When did I ever claim to own the Quran?

“Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them” (Qur’an 3:28).

I have read your quote i don’t know what comes before it or after it but on its own it kind of makes sense to me.

My God commands i mix it up with all people to seek His own in them. He warns me that too much time with the unaware is dangerous as it lowers my awareness. This has made sense to me from my life experience. My mates that drink too much (in my opinion) at times tell me have another one it wont hurt you. If i drink too much I don’t pray and lose sight of what God asks of me until the drunkenness wares of.

The Sunni Qur’an commentator Ibn Kathir explains

sorry i don’t want to even read it. I am having enough trouble understanding the Quran, keeping up with my bible readings and sharing with people around me. So cant comment.

Basically, the koran is telling us that we should not trust even a ‘moderate’ muslim. **Not only does it say to do despicable things to us, **but it says it is ok to lie to us whenever a muslim feels like it - whether threatened, or in good spirits.

I reckon I have already shared with you on all the parts except the bold, in relation to it i know where your coming from I give thanks to God such things are not part of what He calls me to do.
As said I am not scholarly in any way but some things i felt were for a time past and circumstances past.
Such writings are very dangerous in the heart of displaced or angry peoples. Having said that what Moses (PBWH) had to do is was also similar and the Jews i know dont seem to imitate it. Some Christians 500 years ago were not people i see as heroes in fact it was not a long time a ago that Catholics and Protestants were in a shameful “jihad” i put it in " " because to me it was un holy, but I dont know enough to comment.

I don’t like your post to me, I pray I have set things straight for others that read it.

It has led me to openly say I DON’T LIKE YOU i still love ya lots though and am sure my God is in you.

Would Jesus (PBWH) HAVE READ MY WORDS AND TREATED ME AS YOU HAVE?

My introduction to God was in the Catholic tradition.
It is the same God i pray to today but don’t believe The Holy Spirit of My God inspired in you such.

I share in communion around 5 times a week with a Catholic parish of kind loving people, I pray at a mosque at least once a week with some kind loving people. I work for social justice with kind loving peoples of many religions and none.
I share with them in the same way i did with you. They don’t treat me as you have.

I pray MY FATHER have mercy on you, guide you in the Holy Spirit to submit yourself to Him so you see He is Our Father.
If you don’t by His will may He set a large divide between us so I can never upset you and see such again.

 

[R_not]

You still haven’t answered my question though. Here’s another one.

This is the scenario…

I’m a homeless man. I’m sitting on a park bench late at night, when all of a sudden an “angel” appears. He professes to be Gabriel, of the Bible, and has a message for me from God. He tells me Christianity is false, Jesus was not God, nor was he the Messiah, Christianity is evil and sinful, and I must convert everyone to the true religion, which the angel teaches me. The “angel” tells me I am under the command of God and must carry out this mission.

Now, I’m convinced that the angel was really Gabriel, so I go and I preach God’s new message. When the Vatican gets word of this, would they say I was really visited by Gabriel? Never. They would most certainly say that if there was an angel, the angel was in no way Gabriel, and was not sent from God. So, if the angel was not Gabriel and was not send by God, who was it, and who sent it? It could only be a demon or evil spirit, right? Evil, trying to lead me astray. So by following the “angels” message from “god”, am I following the One True God? Or am I following the demon/evil spirit?

They might think that you had too much to drink, too much meth injected, or just a nut which is about 5% of the cases of homeless.

All one has to do is to listen to the message. In the case of mohammed and islam - the message started out - maybe ok somewhat - but ended out to be very violent. Even if they carried on the way they treat their women and little girls as the norm all I got to say is that Christ stopped a stoning while mohammed encouraged it.

 

[Steven_John]

Muslims where i live share about their faith and dogma with each other, gather regularly to do so, share meals and work side by side as equals. Obviously one thing they don’t do is get lessons on their own faith and dogma from each other.

sorry that was supposed to be Muslims and people of other religions where i live, not just Muslims.

peace & blessings

 

[R_not]

My interpretation is the Quran does contain more of rules of engagement than tactics.

It also contains a lot more…

That is just another way to say tactics against us.

Many “Muslims” i have met are near clueless in regards to the contents of the Quran and repeat hearsay.

I have never found Quranic (i am not very knowledgeable of it and still have not made it through) writing i interpret to permit lying some have offered me some quotes but i reckon it is a huge stretch to interpret so.

Please share with me quotes that you personally interpreted to permit lying.

ignorance of the koran is no excuse if you are a muslim and/or a muslim appeaser - I don’t believe you. This is why it is too hard to trust muslims who knows when they are lying or telling the truth about it? Who knows if they are ignorant or wise to it? Since it does indeed say to lie to us and it is a book of battle tactics against us I will always view it as such and make sure people know what it is in those terms.

islamreview.com/articles/lying.shtml

From mohammed’s mouth: ‘war is deceit’. islam is eternal war against the infidel. If the muslim is in a land not under islamic law they are in dar al harb - the realm of war versus dar al islam - the realm of islam. They are told they are in eternal war with us until they establish sharia law in the land.

jihadwatch.org/archives/015800.php

“jihadist groups are gaining adherents among peaceful muslims all over the world by presenting themselves as the exponents of pure and true islam.”

in the Qur’an, “Allah will not call you to account for thoughtlessness (vain) in your oaths, but for the intention in your hearts; and He is Oft-forgiving, Most Forbearing.” Surah 2:225. The principal also has support in the Qur’an 3:28 and 16:106.

Muslims where i live share about their faith and dogma with each other, gather regularly to do so, share meals and work side by side as equals.

For me your statement felt as you want to personally attack me and defame my character. other than ask you to share more with me what have i done to you?

What words did did i say to you? I don’t even know i said I think my words are soothing?

When did I ever claim to own the Quran?

My God commands i mix it up with all people to seek His own in them. He warns me that too much time with the unaware is dangerous as it lowers my awareness. This has made sense to me from my life experience.

in fact it was not a long time a ago that Catholics and Protestants were in a shameful “jihad” i put it in " " because to me it was un holy, but I dont know enough to comment.

I don’t like your post to me, I pray I have set things straight for others that read it.

It has led me to openly say I DON’T LIKE YOU.

I share in communion around 5 times a week with a Catholic parish of kind loving people, I pray at a mosque at least once a week with some kind loving people. I work for social justice with kind loving peoples of many religions and none.

Your ‘awareness’ is lowered or is it that you are starting to question the legitimacy of islam? good. read the koran and hadiths - you will know what I know.

Muslims will try to convert us that is why they appear to socialize with us. To appear peaceful, to give the appearance that islam is benign.

jihadwatch.org/archives/015800.php

“Let not the believers take for friends or helpers unbelievers rather than believers. If any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah; except by way of precaution, that ye may guard yourselves from them” (Qur’an 3:28).

The Sunni Qur’an commentator Ibn Kathir explains that in this verse “Allah prohibited His believing servants from becoming supporters of the disbelievers, or to take them as comrades with whom they develop friendships, rather than the believers.” However, exempted from this rule were “those believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers. In this case, such believers are allowed to show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly. For instance, Al-Bukhari recorded that Abu Ad-Darda’ said, ‘We smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them.’ Al-Bukhari said that Al-Hasan said, ‘The Tuqyah [taqiyyah] is allowed until the Day of Resurrection.’"

I don’t care if you like me or not. I don’t care if you love me because I don’t like being loved to death, eg: being beheaded because I hate islam. I get it all the time from muslims, or their appeasers, that they find me abrupt. Basically they don’t like to have the truth about islam revealed. It is common. Why you don’t question the title of this thread is beyond me - since that is more anti-islam, anti-mohammed, anti-allah than me. but, you are here trying to convert or get appeasers to islam. It is called da’wa.

I am here to make sure that the true facts are known. to give websites to people who want to know the truth about islam and why their daily violence is sanctioned in the koran. And that the reason why they appear so benign vs what jihadists are doing around this globe is not. and to also show that jihad against us takes many forms. It is also in the form of immigration, uncontrolled birth rates, demands, increasing violence while they wail and gnash their teeth that they are the victims when they are not, economic jihad, and infiltration into our organizations.

One example of that infiltration is the muslim brotherhood in the guise of the MSA (muslim student association) into our universities.

I figured the face of Lucifer was one of peace and probably a prettiness. but, that face hides lies, violence, hatred, etc. And that is islam.

 

[Steven_John]

R_not:
Thanks be to the Father of Jesus (PBWH) for answering my prayer.
Your post to me this time was much better, i dont think you made false claims against me.

i owe you and apology, in my last post to you i said i did not like you. I was hurt that you claimed i said things i did not.
i should have said i don’t like what you say. i am sorry.
I also would have been better to ask why you said it was my Quran, not i never said i own the Quran.

After prayer and your next post i can see the Islamic religion upsets you.
The Catholic parish in our town started this religion sharing.

If my posting to you is a problem please just don’t respond or tell me not to again.

Why you don’t question the title of this thread is beyond me - since that is more anti-islam, anti-mohammed, anti-allah than me

I am i started the thread, i want to learn.

But not much peacefulness from brethren here.
May God bless you in the work He has you doing and increase your peace.

 

[Steven_John]

5: 89. Allâh will not punish you for what is uninentional in your oaths, but He will punish you for your deliberate oaths; for its expiation (a deliberate oath) feed ten Masâkin (poor persons), on a scale of the average of that with which you feed your own families; or clothe them; or manumit a slave. But whosoever cannot afford (that), then he should fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths when you have sworn]. And protect your oaths (i.e. do not swear much)]. Thus Allâh make clear to you His Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) that you may be grateful.

2: 225. Allâh will not call you to account for that which is unintentional in your oaths, but He will call you to account for that which your hearts have earned. And Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most-Forbearing.

for me these two chapters don’t permit telling lies but say God holds the intention above our words. If you intend to deceive you are wrong. When i was a kid the priest would tell me what prayers to say for my sins. Sacrifice purifies sin. any commentators that exploits such is blind.

16: 106. Whoever disbelieved in Allâh after his belief, except him who is forced thereto and whose heart is at rest with Faith but such as open their breasts to disbelief, on them is wrath from Allâh, and theirs will be a great torment.

For me this is a great mercy for God that shows one does not have to be a martyr.
If one is tortured he wont hold words spoken against them as long as the truth is still in the heart

peace and blessings to you all

 

[Steven_John]

for me these two chapters don’t permit telling lies but say God holds the intention above our words. If you intend to deceive you are wrong. When i was a kid the priest would tell me what prayers to say for my sins. Sacrifice purifies sin. any commentators that exploits such is blind

I have prayed more on this and hear preists saying because Jesus (PBWH) has died all our sins will be forgiven.

Some people of my age say this is ok then i dont need to do any thing.

Not to speak against any prophet (PBWT) My Father inspires in me I am not to sin, to deliberately do this is wrong even though He is merciful.

I volunteer at Centre Care (social justice arm of the Catholic church) so they say.
They were putting together a “value” statment i had to debate stringently to have them include honesty in it. it was ran by the local director he was against honesty being included.

I prayed and prayed while talking my heart was racing i knew it had to be included or a dark cloud would cover these people. I knew Jesus (PBWH) would be kind not abrupt but he would also be strong. He is the way so I must be like him, my beloved brother.

finally in a room of about 12 only two other people sided with my God.

All praise be to Allah for He is greatest. It only takes 2 or three to gather for the truth to be victorious.

I was late for another appointment excused myself, told them I knew they would make a decision that was right. You see i am blessed with great faith.

They never reached quorum, (there were only His two witness i left) never voted and have honesty as part of their value statement.
All prise be to Allah.

Don’t be fooled to thinking i did good no one is good but The Father Jesus (PBWH) is narrated to have said this.

Thanks and praise to Allah for Jesus (PBWH).

 

[R_not]

I have prayed more on this and hear preists saying because Jesus (PBWH) has died all our sins will be forgiven.

Some people of my age say this is ok then i dont need to do any thing.

Not to speak against any prophet (PBWT) My Father inspires in me I am not to sin, to deliberately do this is wrong even though He is merciful.

I volunteer at Centre Care (social justice arm of the Catholic church) so they say.
They were putting together a “value” statment i had to debate stringently to have them include honesty in it. it was ran by the local director he was against honesty being included.

I prayed and prayed while talking my heart was racing i knew it had to be included or a dark cloud would cover these people. I knew Jesus (PBWH) would be kind not abrupt but he would also be strong. He is the way so I must be like him, my beloved brother.

finally in a room of about 12 only two other people sided with my God.

All praise be to Allah for He is greatest. It only takes 2 or three to gather for the truth to be victorious.

I was late for another appointment excused myself, told them I knew they would make a decision that was right. You see i am blessed with great faith.

They never reached quorum, (there were only His two witness i left) never voted and have honesty as part of their value statement.
All prise be to Allah.

Don’t be fooled to thinking i did good no one is good but The Father Jesus (PBWH) is narrated to have said this.

Thanks and praise to Allah for Jesus (PBWH).

Why do you waste time in telling us this - why don’t you tell your fellow muslims that they are the ones who distort the koran?! Those ones who think that killing, raping, torturing, enslaving, and lying to infidels is ok? Or is it that your post isn’t totally correct? Is it that you don’t tell lies to OTHER MUSLIMS and you forget to add that doing whatever to infidels is a-ok?

this is the lie that comes from muslims - they never admit that the only ones they are to NOT lie to are other muslims.

This is the same as their general statement of: ‘…we don’t believe in the murder of innocents or suicide bombers…’. They don’t tell us that they only believe that muslims are innocent and that suicide is indeed ok if they are also trying/achieving in blowing up infidels.

The ones distorting the koran are the ‘moderates’ because of the sort of post that is posted above. The ones who use the koran to justify their imperialistic goals and death are the jihadists who openly reference the koran to explain their deeds.

List of intolerant teachings in the Koran: faithfreedom.org/Articles/quran_teaches.htm

ok to kill and rape non-muslims (this one tells of the fact that muslims do not consider infidels as innocent - not even children - which explains why they are ok with the muslims lobbing bombs into Israel on a daily basis or the slaughter of Africans, or kidnapping and enslaving Asian Indians, etc.:

islam-watch.org/AyeshaAhmed/London-Imam-Attempt-to-Carry-Out-Sunna.htm

As for mohammed being a guy who I would honor - I would say ‘not in my lifetime’.
military expeditions led by the ‘prophet’

usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/059.sbt.html#005.059.369

keep reading the above and you will see mohammed wanted a guy killed, let me quote part of it, ‘…Allah’s Apostle said, “Who is willing to kill Ka’b bin Al-Ashraf who has hurt Allah and His Apostle?” Thereupon Muhammad bin Maslama got up saying, “O Allah’s Apostle! Would you like that I kill him?” The Prophet said, “Yes,”’

 

[Steven_John]

Why do you waste time in telling us this -

It was offered in relation to how people of different religions value truth.

5: 89. Allâh will not punish you for what is uninentional in your oaths, but He will punish you for your deliberate oaths; for its expiation (a deliberate oath) feed ten Masâkin (poor persons), on a scale of the average of that with which you feed your own families; or clothe them; or manumit a slave. But whosoever cannot afford (that), then he should fast for three days. That is the expiation for the oaths when you have sworn]. And protect your oaths (i.e. do not swear much)]. Thus Allâh make clear to you His Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) that you may be grateful.

2: 225. Allâh will not call you to account for that which is unintentional in your oaths, but He will call you to account for that which your hearts have earned. And Allâh is Oft-Forgiving, Most-Forbearing.

for me these two chapters don’t permit telling lies but say God holds the intention above our words. If you intend to deceive you are wrong. When i was a kid the priest would tell me what prayers to say for my sins. Sacrifice purifies sin. any commentators that exploits such is blind.

16: 106. Whoever disbelieved in Allâh after his belief, except him who is forced thereto and whose heart is at rest with Faith but such as open their breasts to disbelief, on them is wrath from Allâh, and theirs will be a great torment.

For me this is a great mercy for God that shows one does not have to be a martyr.
If one is tortured he wont hold words spoken against them as long as the truth is still in the heart

why don’t you tell your fellow muslims that they are the ones who distort the koran?

firstly where have i said i am a muslim?
I have never made shihada. A Catholic priest told me the Arabic meaning of the word muslim is one who submits to God / Allah.
In this definition i am only aspiring.

secondly you and i both agree this is a distortion of the meaning of the words in this part of the Quran.

Thirdly i will offer my understanding to any person musilm or atheist, God / Allah asks us to spread the good news.

Those ones who think that killing, raping, torturing, enslaving, and lying to infidels is ok?

I have not met any, i only see them on tv. I don’t doubt they exist and don’t see these actions as inspired by God / Allah

Or is it that your post isn’t totally correct? Is it that you don’t tell lies to OTHER MUSLIMS and you forget to add that doing whatever to infidels is a-ok?

If you read my post you should see that honesty is important to me, again it is why i “wasted my time telling you this”.
It would have been easier for me to just go with the crowd, but then how honest would I have been?

I aspire to treat all people with honesty, you imply that i would lie to my atheist friends. Why would I? they treat me better than you have in your post. I dont know God / Allahs plan I just have to follow his truth. If i lie to them i could get in the way His plan.

this is the lie that comes from muslims - they never admit that the only ones they are to NOT lie to are other muslims.

Your words not mine, no argument from me. Does God show you the truth of all mens hearts? If He does you may like to reflect on what He has shown you of mine. FOR ME He does not show me all hearts it maybe the same for you.

This is the same as their general statement of: ‘…we don’t believe in the murder of innocents or suicide bombers…’. They don’t tell us that they only believe that muslims are innocent and that suicide is indeed ok if they are also trying/achieving in blowing up infidels.

The ones distorting the koran are the ‘moderates’ because of the sort of post that is posted above. The ones who use the koran to justify their imperialistic goals and death are the jihadists who openly reference the koran to explain their deeds.

This goes on a bit and don’t see how you have made the connection with my post.

My post was offered as personal testament and interpretation of the Quranic statement supposed to justify lying.

I guess if there is a connection you have justified my point, some people claiming to be of different religions don’t value honesty.
the other part of my post is to offer that faith in The One True God / Allah will always make the truth prevail.

As for the rest of your post, I have sen some of that stuff before, I have no argument with you in relation to it, i see despicable acts that sadden my heart too. How you have connected it with my post was not clear at first but i guess it is of naivety.

I guess, not stating as fact you have honed in on the word Allah.

If this is the case

My understanding of English is the word god means any thing worshiped ie ancients had a god called rah, some people hold money above all so it is god to them.
God is the one and only god.
God and god sound the same in speech.

My understanding of Arabic Allah means God and illah means god.
They are written different and sound different in speech.

Out of respect for the person i share with i should use words they are comfortable with, sorry if i made you uncomfortable. I have been told many Christians refer to God as Allah.

If you are like me when i see despicable acts in the name of God i find it insulting it even makes me a bit angry. How and where i direct it is my responsibility. Evil acts are the works of satan and those he has blinded. Let us be not blinded when we see these things and keep on the true path.

the peace i have i offer to you,
you are not compulsed to follow me,
you must follow His guidance to you.

i will be who i will be

 

[Sam_777]

R_not;3647854:

                          Those ones who think that killing, raping, torturing, enslaving, and lying to infidels is ok?

I have not met any, i only see them on tv. I don’t doubt they exist and don’t see these actions as inspired by God / Allah

:tsktsk: Mr. Steven, these are Allah & Muhammad words:

(Quran 47:4):
“Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; at length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah’s Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will never let their deeds be lost.”

(Quran 9:5):
“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”

(Quran 9:29):
“Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued”

(Quran 3:151):
“Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers, for that they joined companions with Allah, for which He had sent no authority; their abode will be the Fire; and evil is the home of the wrong-doers!”

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 261:
“Narrated Anas bin Malik:
A group of eight men from the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Provide us with some milk.” Allah’s Apostle said, “I recommend that you should join the herd of camels.” So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and whey were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died (Abu Qilaba, a sub-narrator said, "They committed murder and theft and fought against Allah and His Apostle, and spread evil in the land.)”

 

[tomshaikh]

As-Salaam-O-Alikum Waramatullah Hi Wabarakhtaho, Brother Stephen John. I am very eager to congratulate you that you are into Islam favourizam. May Allah Give You Long Life With Health and Prosphercy. I was reading your responses and i swear i cry like a baby. And to give you immediate Congratulate i didn’t finished reading your whole thread i read upto page 4 and i guess post 55-58 i think but i know the page 4 i will continued from there. Its about 4:44AM and I am about to pray fajir. Inshallah I will pray for you my brother. And remember about 99 names of Allah so i would like to mentioned one name which is Al-Noor or Al-Nooru. I would like to point out that Prophet Muhammad pbuh also one name is Al-Noor or Al-Nooru. So i thought and thing come in my mind about ISRA AND MIRAJ JOURNEY. Where Prophet Muhammad pbuh Humkalam( Urdu Word) with Allah. And this is only happened because of the characteristic or name of Al-NOOR or Al-NOORU. Light can see Light. SubhanAllah. My request to you after half way reading your post. Instead of calling One and Only Above Father called him Allah. Note: See the word Allah in Arabic it is same scarved as our right hand face it like stop sign you will see you hand structure in Arabic form which is Allah. Once again I love you brother. May you and your family be blessed and hopefully you will visit Saudi Arabia especially Makkah and Medina. Allah Hafiz and Peace