Mixed-Faith Marriage in Outdoor Ceremony

[Kc906]

Hi Everybody,

I am a male Catholic and I am engaged to a baptized non-Catholic (no religious affiliation.) My future wife is a very spritiaul person, and as a very devote Catholic I would not marry a woman who would not allower our children to be raised Catholic. We had many long discussions about this, we have read through the Bible together and had very long, deep conversations about our God. She has agreed that our children will only be taught the Catholic faith, and nothing additional or contrary.

Now that we are engaged, we have been looking at possible venues to get married and have our reception. Her mother and sisters are all a part of the Jehovah Witness religion (only the mother is active,) so we are looking at getting married outside of the Catholic Church since they would not attend due to their beliefs.

I reached out to the Deacon at the local parish my fiancee and I have been attending mass at, and he suggested that I register with the Parish and then we would discuss the marriage preparation that they offer. In the past I have looked into the possibility of marrying a baptized non-Catholic outside of the Catholic Church, and they said this is usually not a problem to receive a dispensation as long as the Catholic party promises to do their best to raise the child Catholic, among a few other things.

I “assumed” that an Outdoor wedding ceremony would be acceptable since it is technically outside of the Catholic Church, but reading through some posts in a search it looks like an Outside ceremony is almost always not allowed?

 

[TheWarriorMonk]

I “assumed” that an Outdoor wedding ceremony would be acceptable since it is technically outside of the Catholic Church, but reading through some posts in a search it looks like an Outside ceremony is almost always not allowed?

The “outside” marriage is not permitted between two catholic parties (barring exceptional circumstances). It IS permitted between a Catholic party and non-Catholic party, with the appropriate dispensation.

With regard to your future wife’s baptism, you noted that her mother and sisters are Jehovah’s Witnesses. JW baptism’s are not considered valid, so if your future wife was “baptized” in a JW Church, then she is considered unbaptized. In that case, and additional dispensation would be required for marrying and unbaptized person.

 

[Kc906]

The “outside” marriage is not permitted between two catholic parties (barring exceptional circumstances). It IS permitted between a Catholic party and non-Catholic party, with the appropriate dispensation.

With regard to your future wife’s baptism, you noted that her mother and sisters are Jehovah’s Witnesses. JW baptism’s are not considered valid, so if your future wife was “baptized” in a JW Church, then she is considered unbaptized. In that case, and additional dispensation would be required for marrying and unbaptized person.

Thank you for your reply. Her baptism was conducted at a non-denominational church, carried out in the standard Trinitarian Formula (In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,) and she was complete submerged at this particular venue.

It is nice to know that we can be married in an Outdoor setting if the dispensation is provided by the Bishop; I had read mixed replies on this so far. Now I suppose that just because it can be provided, it is not a guaranty even though we will go through this process to obtain a dispensation? I presume it depends on the level of faith among the parties, willingness to raise the children Catholic, and to keep God in our lives?

 

[Suslar]

I think there is also the question of being equally yoked. The Church, in her wisdom, is realizing how many mixed faith marriages and how many marriages that take place outside of the Church (where one party is Catholic), are ending in divorce. The Church is against divorce. In fact, the RCC Is the defender of the sanctity of marriage. Those handling your wedding prep will want to be sure you both know and consent to lifelong commitment. That you know what you’re getting into.

I do find it interesting that her family will not compromise their faith to come to your wedding in your Church, but they would expect you to compromise yours? From someone who has been there and done that, I can tell you it is a difficult journey you are embarking upon. If I would have know then what I know now . . . . .

 

[Mrs_Sally]

OP, please do as the deacon suggests and register at the church and discuss your marriage prep and wedding plans with them. The deacon or priest there can guide you in your specific situation and complete the paperwork necessary for whatever dispensations you need.

Since your wife is non-Catholic and not practicing any faith, I would recommend that you take your marriage prep very seriously. Bring up and discuss any questions at all that you have with the deacon/priest who is assisting you.

You should also ask about NFP classes in your diocese and enroll after you have started your marriage prep. Would your fiance be willing to attend RCIA classes as a means of learning more about Catholicism?

I also recommend the books “Three to get Married” and “For Better, For Worse”.

 

[1ke]

I “assumed” that an Outdoor wedding ceremony would be acceptable since it is technically outside of the Catholic Church, but reading through some posts in a search it looks like an Outside ceremony is almost always not allowed?

If you receive a dispensation from form, yes you may be married in an outdoor ceremony.

What you are likely reading are posts related to Catholics who are wanting to marry in Catholic form who want an outdoor wedding. The Catholic form calls for the wedding to be in the parish church, or possibly a chapel or oratory with permission. To have the wedding take place elsewhere requires the bishop’s permission and most bishops do not give such permission.

 

[1ke]

Now I suppose that just because it can be provided, it is not a guaranty even though we will go through this process to obtain a dispensation? I presume it depends on the level of faith among the parties, willingness to raise the children Catholic, and to keep God in our lives?

Yes, it is contingent upon the Catholic party’s promise to raise children Catholic, etc. But, in the US it is pretty much a formality (which isn’t necessarily a good thing, but I think it’s pretty much a fact). If the priest makes the request for permission for mixed marriage and dispensation from form to the bishop, it will most likely be granted. I haven’t heard of any being denied, at least here in the US.

I think the bishops take a much harder look in countries that, for example, limit women’s rights such as Muslim countries where the wife might not be allowed freedom to practice her faith or raise the children Catholic.

 

[Kc906]

OP, please do as the deacon suggests and register at the church and discuss your marriage prep and wedding plans with them. The deacon or priest there can guide you in your specific situation and complete the paperwork necessary for whatever dispensations you need.

Since your wife is non-Catholic and not practicing any faith, I would recommend that you take your marriage prep very seriously. Bring up and discuss any questions at all that you have with the deacon/priest who is assisting you.

You should also ask about NFP classes in your diocese and enroll after you have started your marriage prep. Would your fiance be willing to attend RCIA classes as a means of learning more about Catholicism?

I also recommend the books “Three to get Married” and “For Better, For Worse”.

My Fiance does attend weekly mass with me at her local Catholic Church, I should have worded that differently in my OP. My two “main” concerns (there were many) was that our children would be raised Catholic, and not taught anything contrary to Catholicism, and that we attend mass and other Catholic functions as a family.

If you can’t go to Church and worship God with your wife, then unfortunately you have made a grave mistake in my opinion. Now the obvious concern is that she changes her mind in the future and stops going to mass or trying to teach the kids what she believes; I made it explicitly clear that this was unacceptable, and that she was better off with someone else if she has this thought in her mind.

I let her know about NFP and my intent to not use any artificial methods/barriers to prevent children. She is skeptical but open to using NFP within marriage; I really need to show her the evidence. She almost enrolled in RCIA late last year, but she is getting her Master’s and it became obvious to me that she was doing this to make me happy, and not because she was called to Catholicism.

I will leave that bridge up to God, and I will let his Holy Spirit work as I help plant seeds of truth into our relationship.

 

[Jeremiah_29_11]

Hi Everybody,

I am a male Catholic and I am engaged to a baptized non-Catholic (no religious affiliation.) My future wife is a very spritiaul person, and as a very devote Catholic I would not marry a woman who would not allower our children to be raised Catholic. We had many long discussions about this, we have read through the Bible together and had very long, deep conversations about our God. She has agreed that our children will only be taught the Catholic faith, and nothing additional or contrary.

Now that we are engaged, we have been looking at possible venues to get married and have our reception. Her mother and sisters are all a part of the Jehovah Witness religion (only the mother is active,) so we are looking at getting married outside of the Catholic Church since they would not attend due to their beliefs.

I reached out to the Deacon at the local parish my fiancee and I have been attending mass at, and he suggested that I register with the Parish and then we would discuss the marriage preparation that they offer. In the past I have looked into the possibility of marrying a baptized non-Catholic outside of the Catholic Church, and they said this is usually not a problem to receive a dispensation as long as the Catholic party promises to do their best to raise the child Catholic, among a few other things.

I “assumed” that an Outdoor wedding ceremony would be acceptable since it is technically outside of the Catholic Church, but reading through some posts in a search it looks like an Outside ceremony is almost always not allowed?

Please, PLEASE continue discerning this marriage! Your fiancee can promise anything to you BEFORE you marry and especially before you have children. But once children come into the picture, it is not infrequent for the non-Catholic parent to go back on that promise, especially under any kind of pressure from their parents. And Jehovah Witnesses are not exactly tolerant of Catholics. You can see already that your very wedding ceremony is going to be arranged to suit your fiancee’s mother and sisters - does that give you any pause for concern?

 

[EasterJoy]

If you receive a dispensation from form, yes you may be married in an outdoor ceremony.

What you are likely reading are posts related to Catholics who are wanting to marry in Catholic form who want an outdoor wedding. The Catholic form calls for the wedding to be in the parish church, or possibly a chapel or oratory with permission. To have the wedding take place elsewhere requires the bishop’s permission and most bishops do not give such permission.

In the case of disparity of cult, a marriage at a venue that the mother of the bride would allow herself into might be worth looking into, but with the marriage of a Catholic to a non-Catholic Christian, most pastors will highly encourage a church wedding. Besides, how charitable is it to require a Jehovah’s Witness to sit through what is still going to be a very obviously Catholic wedding, no matter where it is performed?

If the bride or the groom belongs to a family who cannot attend a marriage in a Catholic Church out of conscience, it might be possible to have some sort of ceremonial affirmation of vows at another venue, such as at the reception, for the benefit of those witnesses, adding on a prayer by those assembled for a faithful marriage and dispensing with “I pronounce you man and wife” or anything similar which falsely implies that those present are witnessing the binding vows instead of a the kind of affirmation that a married couple might make to each other any day after they marry. It is not as if most wedding rituals outside of a Catholic nuptial Mass take very long. Ten or fifteen minute weddings are not unusual. OP, since the people in question are immediate family, I would talk to your pastor about this kind of possibility.

 

[PatriceA]

Please, PLEASE continue discerning this marriage! Your fiancee can promise anything to you BEFORE you marry and especially before you have children. But once children come into the picture, it is not infrequent for the non-Catholic parent to go back on that promise, especially under any kind of pressure from their parents. And Jehovah Witnesses are not exactly tolerant of Catholics. You can see already that your very wedding ceremony is going to be arranged to suit your fiancee’s mother and sisters - does that give you any pause for concern?

I also wonder what is going to happen when and if the OP has children and its time for the the children to be baptized, receive First Communion, Confirmation, etc. Will the bride’s family become involved in those decisions, for example, picking Godparents? The OP may solve the problem of the location of the wedding ceremony, but there is so much more to consider when members of the bride’s family can not set foot in a Catholic Church.

 

[Kc906]

Please, PLEASE continue discerning this marriage! Your fiancee can promise anything to you BEFORE you marry and especially before you have children. But once children come into the picture, it is not infrequent for the non-Catholic parent to go back on that promise, especially under any kind of pressure from their parents. And Jehovah Witnesses are not exactly tolerant of Catholics. You can see already that your very wedding ceremony is going to be arranged to suit your fiancee’s mother and sisters - does that give you any pause for concern?

I thank you for your concern and advice. After meeting my fiance I became “obsessed” with this religion that her mother brought them up with, it overtook my life and my spare time as I researched it for hours upon hours. As a result, my love for God and his Catholic Church, along with my overall knowledge of scriptures, has grown exponentially. I have no doubt that this woman was meant to be brought into my life, for without her I would more than likely still be an occasional attender of mass, and still have my sins of my past in my life.

She is very aware of both of our roles in the family, and the husbands role as the Head of the Household. Even her mother and any JW out there will strongly agree that the husband is the Head, and that he is in charge of rearing a godly family unit.

When we marry someone we decide to put our trust in them for the rest of our lives. She is 100% aware, and as been for some time now, that I will not accept anything less than raising our children Catholic, with no additional point of views.

Again, she is not a JW herself, although she does hold to several of their unique beliefs. She is by far one of the nicest people that I or any of you would ever meet, and I do want to spend the rest of my life with her. She knows that I would happily move on if our children were not Catholic, or if she insisted on allowing other points of view in their spiritual life. As a woman who has not once deceived me, lied to me (that I am aware of,) I am putting my trust in her and God that she is meant to be my wife.

 

[Jeremiah_29_11]

I wish you nothing but the best. I hope that everything you have said here, remains true. Please take my concern how it is meant, with deepest charity.

 

[Kc906]

I also wonder what is going to happen when and if the OP has children and its time for the the children to be baptized, receive First Communion, Confirmation, etc. Will the bride’s family become involved in those decisions, for example, picking Godparents? The OP may solve the problem of the location of the wedding ceremony, but there is so much more to consider when members of the bride’s family can not set foot in a Catholic Church.

Hi PatriceA; thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut and point of view.

Having never been married nor having children, I am not sure how common it would be to includes one’s “In Laws” in a decision to have my/our children go through Baptism, First Communion, etc. I’m not trying to sound arrogant at all, but I don’t believe it is any of their business on how I/we choose to raise our children. My future mother-in-law was the spiritual head of her family as the kids were growing up, her husband is Catholic but no longer felt the need to attend mass; it has been at least 15 to 20 years since he went through this change.

Nonetheless, she was allowed to raise her family how she seemed fit, and I have absolutely no problem letting her know that I expect the same respect from her. If I were to find out that she were proselytizing our children even after being told this, I would not allow our children to be alone with her. This is absolutely unacceptable to me, and I will stand firm. I refuse to take a back seat to raising good, moral, Catholic children, if God blesses us with a family.

 

[PatriceA]

Hi PatriceA; thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut and point of view.

Having never been married nor having children, I am not sure how common it would be to includes one’s “In Laws” in a decision to have my/our children go through Baptism, First Communion, etc. I’m not trying to sound arrogant at all, but I don’t believe it is any of their business on how I/we choose to raise our children. My future mother-in-law was the spiritual head of her family as the kids were growing up, her husband is Catholic but no longer felt the need to attend mass; it has been at least 15 to 20 years since he went through this change.

Nonetheless, she was allowed to raise her family how she seemed fit, and I have absolutely no problem letting her know that I expect the same respect from her. If I were to find out that she were proselytizing our children even after being told this, I would not allow our children to be alone with her. This is absolutely unacceptable to me, and I will stand firm. I refuse to take a back seat to raising good, moral, Catholic children, if God blesses us with a family.

All you have to do is a search on godparents on CAF to see how common the problems that occur with in-laws, even when they were raised Catholic. I know its very easy to say the in-laws won’t be involved in these kind of decisions, I was once engaged and thought I thoroughly had a grasp on how I was going to handle situations with my in-laws after the wedding. Saying it and doing it are totally different, and everything seems great BEFORE the wedding ceremony.

Children will change how family members act and treat each other. Since you nor your bride have ever been married and have children, neither of you may know how you react when its time for the first baptism and you can’t include your bride’s family in the celebration OR they pressure you to pick a family member to be a godparent even when they can’t be one.

These are just things to consider, you may think you have it all figured out, but maybe do a bit more reading on the experiences of CAF members and being in mixed marriages. I’m not saying mixed marriages can not be blessed and healthy, but I think its unwise to think you won’t have difficult situations and how you think you will deal with them now may not be what happens later. Even marriages between two devout, practicing Catholics have their in-law problems when it comes to the children and how they are raised in the Church.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

My Fiance does attend weekly mass with me at her local Catholic Church, I should have worded that differently in my OP. My two “main” concerns (there were many) was that our children would be raised Catholic, and not taught anything contrary to Catholicism, and that we attend mass and other Catholic functions as a family.

If you can’t go to Church and worship God with your wife, then unfortunately you have made a grave mistake in my opinion. Now the obvious concern is that she changes her mind in the future and stops going to mass or trying to teach the kids what she believes; I made it explicitly clear that this was unacceptable, and that she was better off with someone else if she has this thought in her mind.

I let her know about NFP and my intent to not use any artificial methods/barriers to prevent children. She is skeptical but open to using NFP within marriage; I really need to show her the evidence. She almost enrolled in RCIA late last year, but she is getting her Master’s and it became obvious to me that she was doing this to make me happy, and not because she was called to Catholicism.

I will leave that bridge up to God, and I will let his Holy Spirit work as I help plant seeds of truth into our relationship.

I am very glad to hear that she is attending Mass and that she is open to NFP and to attending RCIA. She can attend RCIA without going through any of the rites and without joining the Church. There may also be other classes (Bible studies or talks) that you can both attend together.

As for NFP, she may be very happy about the naturalness of it and how it can help her know more about her own body and health. If you are open to children, your charting doesn’t need to be extraordinarily precise, but I found that the temps and other signs were very helpful to me regardless of the child spacing or conception avoidance/attempting benefits.

 

[Kc906]

All you have to do is a search on godparents on CAF to see how common the problems that occur with in-laws, even when they were raised Catholic. I know its very easy to say the in-laws won’t be involved in these kind of decisions, I was once engaged and thought I thoroughly had a grasp on how I was going to handle situations with my in-laws after the wedding. Saying it and doing it are totally different, and everything seems great BEFORE the wedding ceremony.

Children will change how family members act and treat each other. Since you nor your bride have ever been married and have children, neither of you may know how you react when its time for the first baptism and you can’t include your bride’s family in the celebration OR they pressure you to pick a family member to be a godparent even when they can’t be one.

These are just things to consider, you may think you have it all figured out, but maybe do a bit more reading on the experiences of CAF members and being in mixed marriages. I’m not saying mixed marriages can not be blessed and healthy, but I think its unwise to think you won’t have difficult situations and how you think you will deal with them now may not be what happens later. Even marriages between two devout, practicing Catholics have their in-law problems when it comes to the children and how they are raised in the Church.

I used the term arrogant in my initial reply to you (me not being arrogant that is .) I think my youth an inexperience could be what I am missing; I have one sister who is married but has no children. I do feel like I have most of my ducks in a row, but like you said there plenty of things that come up, some of which will be unexpected. I’m glad you are here to add your (name removed by moderator)ut on the topic.

I plan on bringing my firm belief in the free gift of Grace that God offers to each of us that accepts him. That by faith in this grace, and faith in our Lord Jesus, we can receive eternal life if we repent of our sins and turn from evil. I pray that I will stand strong in my defense of these truths, no matter what or who may come my way.

Please pray for me.

 

[1ke]

In the case of disparity of cult, a marriage at a venue that the mother of the bride would allow herself into might be worth looking into, but with the marriage of a Catholic to a non-Catholic Christian, most pastors will highly encourage a church wedding. Besides, how charitable is it to require a Jehovah’s Witness to sit through what is still going to be a very obviously Catholic wedding, no matter where it is performed?

It would not be an “obviously Catholic wedding”. The OP is asking about a dispensation from form. And, regardless of whether the non-Catholic is baptized or unbaptized, if the OP has received a dispensation from form the wedding can take place outside by a JP or a non-Catholic minister.

 

[Suslar]

My future mother-in-law was the spiritual head of her family as the kids were growing up, her husband is Catholic. . . .

Nonetheless, she was allowed to raise her family how she seemed fit . . .

Earlier, you posted, “She is very aware of both of our roles in the family, and the husbands role as the Head of the Household. Even her mother and any JW out there will strongly agree that the husband is the Head, and that he is in charge of rearing a godly family unit.”

Being “older” (which I don’t admit to very often ) and wiser from experience, I might suggest you “hear” what is not being said . . . .

Like, that your future MIL was head of her family . . . and that her husband fell away form Catholicism. Dealing with us women can be an interesting thing . . . I’d guess that woman is thinking, “I got one man to give up that Faith, surely I can get this guy to give it up too so my daughter can raise her family just like I did.”

I do understand what it is to be in love and to think the other person is the only one in the world. But honestly, there are lots of women who could be your wife. And, there may be one who is better suited for you. If I could do it over again, I would not have attempted to marry someone with different religious beliefs . . .the pain & betrayal from the divorce and annulment almost crushed me. My future spouse will be a Catholic. It’s something I will not compromise on.

May God be with you as you continue to discern and consider your future. Sounds like you are committed to being an ideal husband and that is certainly half the equation!

 

[boymama]

Just a heads up. I wanted to get married on the lawn at the Church in which I grew up and was denied by the Diocese.

We had to get married inside no matter what. That particular Diocese required all Catholic weddings be at the altar.

Posted from Catholic.com App for Android