Mixed marriage if husband converts to Catholicism

[Semper_Fi_1]

Hi

Suffering, suffering, suffering of common and ordinary Christians continues unabated.

To me, the solution is Unity under One Christendum. The Catholics and Protestant should merge together to alleviate the suffering, not by compromising but uniting on truth with peaceful dialogue, the permanant solution.

Meanwhile I pray.

Thanks

What a force a United Christendom would be to the world. It is God’s Will, so His will will be done. We can see the developments of ecumenism panning out a deeper unity than we had just a century ago. Fundamentalism set Protestantism in the right direction in uniting Protestant Christianity so that we could have a dialogue of more dividing issues to come later. Proper catechesis is the major stumbling block in most Christian denominations. If we teach our kid’s Jesus’ message now, then maybe by the time they are grown we can achieve a true unity.

 

[Salonika]

I was led to this thread from one on a similar topic and I am adding to it because I am really moved by it. I am especially moved by the personal accounts of some of the challenges involved in a “mixed marriage” or other close relationship eg where a sibling, parents, grandparents, close friends change religion or join another branch of it, especially when the new religion or branch makes demands on the person who has not changed.

“First Love” and “Lucy 121”, thanks for your contributions, for your openness and honesty, and for describing so clearly some of the challenges involved when people come to the conclusion that they are being led to express deeply held religious beliefs in different ways and settings. Your comments deserve to be read more widely.

Open debate and discussion is very difficult where a person, organisation or group believes that it holds the monopoly on truth. It becomes even more difficult when this is combined with the belief that no-one has the right to hold a contrary view.

I think how people come to their beliefs and how they maintain or develop them is very important. Maybe there would be more discussion and less confrontation if we asked others “how did you come to believe that” rather than “why do you believe that?”

 

[Inman]

I am in a similar situation to your husband, although in an unusual way. My wife is a cradle catholic, but is essentially non-practicing and not religous. I was raised southern baptist, but I was not religous at all when we met. A few years after we wre married I converted to Catholicism. My wife feels like you I think, as in she didn’t sign up for a husband that wants to be a faithful catholic and all that entails. It is hard at times, but with love and patience I think you can make it. There may be some things you have to agree not to talk about. We don’t have kids yet so only time will tell how we work that out.

Just a couple of points on various issues.

Regarding children, their your kids as well. So I think you have every right to expose them to your beliefs. In a catholic marriage, the non-catholic spouse is only informed of the Catholic’s obligation to raise the kids catholic. The non-catholic spouse is not required to agree to raise the children catholic. The Church understands that the non-catholic spouse will want to pass on his or her religious views.

Nonetheless, your husband has to do his best to raise your kids Catholic. I think about the best you can hope for, from your perspective, is to expose them to both your religous communities. For example, every catholic is required to attend mass or Sunday (or Saturday night). To accomodate both of your religious communities you might end up going to mass during one time slot and your communities service at another point during the weekend. The hard part will be working out how you explain your differences to the children and when the Children are required to choose.

Baptism is another thing to think about. I don’t know if your community does infant baptisms or not, but I am sure your husband will want to have the children baptised in the catholic church as soon as practicable after they are born. This would be especially true if your church waits until later to baptize children. Catholics view baptism as necessary, not just a symbol, so getting it done is very important.

Regarding catholic communion, you can participate in every aspect of the mass, other than communion. Similarly, your husband can attend your community’s services as along as he doesn’t take communion (provided he also attends mass on Sunday). In most parishes you can even walk in the communion line with your arms crossed over your chest and the priest will bless you.

As for contraception, your husband is obliged not to use it and must try to convince you, within reason, not to use it either. However, provided he makes his objection known, he is not required to abstain.

Welcome to the forums. I will pray for you and your husband.

 

[First_Love]

Thanks for the thoughts. I think our situation is different in that I
am a practicing follower of Jesus. I actually led my husband to being a believer. When we met, he didn’t know that he could have a relationship with Jesus. I have had a strong foundation in my faith and even in theological studies since I was a little girl. We are both active in our church and in living out our faith and we seek God as the center of our relationship daily.

The issues are a little more deep rooted than to me not wanting deal with the possible “rigidity” in religion that might come with my husbands conversion to the Catholic faith because that’s not it at all! My parents were both raised Catholic and I have many family members who are still Catholic. I think many of them are doing exactly what I am doing…trying to live a life for God and live out their faith the way they feel led by Him. I don’t have a problem with my Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ. I do have a problem with my husband saying Catholicism is “the one true faith.” He doesn’t say that any more because he recognizes that I have a strong faith and a strong relationship with Christ and that comment is pretty much cutting my earnest seeking of God to be something less that what it is. I don’t really think that any group of Christians really has everything 100% right any more. I think we can only do our best in seeking God’s will and in seeking to live a life for Him.

The issue about having children is a struggle because I know if he converted, the Catholic church would insist that they be raised Catholic. I don’t understand this because the Bible teaches to raise up a child in the way he should go meaning teach your children to live a life for God and to follow Jesus whole heartedly. I don’t want to raise our future children to be any denomination but to love Jesus whole heartedly and to live lives as his servants…after all a “Christian” by definition is a follower of Christ. I don’t feel the need to add to that. Living a life patterned after Jesus is a great thing to strive for! If my husband presented a commitment to Catholicism by saying “I must raise our children Catholic regardless of your involvement or agreement” I would no longer feel like a team. I want to teach our children together the way God intended. Since we are both Christians who love the Lord and want to teach our children in the best way we possibly can, I feel it is important for us to do it together even with our small differences in beliefs.

I would not feel comfortable with our children being baptized into any one denomination. I don’t feel that is the purpose of baptisms spoken of in the New Testament. People were baptized as a sign of being a Christian. They were not baptized Catholic or Baptist or anything else. My husband and I were both baptized at an age that we could choose to be baptized.

My husband has committed to going to church with me whether he converts or not. We currently go to the church where he first became a believer and where we were married. He occasionally also attends Mass early in the morning before our church service. I have gone with him a couple of times as well. At this point he is not Catholic and we will raise the children in our current church but with a respect for the Catholic faith. My husband does not feel like our children’s souls will be at risk if we do this. He does not want them to have negative feelings toward Catholicism but he does not believe that salvation comes by being Catholic but by being a believer and follower of Jesus. So though he feels drawn to the Catholic faith, he recognizes that I am a believer and that I have salvation through Jesus just as any Catholic who is a follower of Christ…I recognize that Catholics can also have salvation as well.

Catholic communion has already become an issue for us. He has stopped taking communion at our church which was hard for me. My church would never turn away a believer in Christ from participating in communion. This is actually one big reason why I would have a problem with our home church ever being Catholic. I would be excluded from a meaningful part of church life. At our current church we are both welcome to be a part of everything. This is a huge issue for me and a reason why I would never feel comfortable regularly attending Catholic church. I could never truly be an accepted part of the church and I since I don’t agree with much of the doctrine I can not convert.

As for contraception, my husband never expressed a desire for me to discontinue using it. He is not actually Catholic but just studying Catholicism and feels drawn to it. He has never said he thinks it’s wrong. It seems to be one of those grey areas where many Catholics actually do use it. I do know Protestants who also feel birth control is wrong to use. I disagree and I’m not sure my husband would feel it was wrong even if he converted. Anyway, it’s a non-issue because I don’t take it anymore.

I appreciate your prayers. My husband is a wonderful man who is seeking God and in many cases will lie down his own desires to serve me and make sure my needs our met. We are able to pray together and for each other and God is the center of our relationship. Jesus is what holds us together and keeps our marriage alive. Catholic or not, I cannot ask for more than that in a relationship!

I’m sorry if your wife does not have a strong desire to raise your children up to have strong faith in God. Hopefully, by the time you have children, she will have the same desire that you have!

God bless.

 

[Delraek]

Thanks for the thoughts. I think our situation is different in that I
am a practicing follower of Jesus. I actually led my husband to being a believer. When we met, he didn’t know that he could have a relationship with Jesus. I have had a strong foundation in my faith and even in theological studies since I was a little girl. We are both active in our church and in living out our faith and we seek God as the center of our relationship daily.

The issues are a little more deep rooted than to me not wanting deal with the possible “rigidity” in religion that might come with my husbands conversion to the Catholic faith because that’s not it at all! My parents were both raised Catholic and I have many family members who are still Catholic. I think many of them are doing exactly what I am doing…trying to live a life for God and live out their faith the way they feel led by Him. I don’t have a problem with my Catholic brothers and sisters in Christ. I do have a problem with my husband saying Catholicism is “the one true faith.” He doesn’t say that any more because he recognizes that I have a strong faith and a strong relationship with Christ and that comment is pretty much cutting my earnest seeking of God to be something less that what it is. I don’t really think that any group of Christians really has everything 100% right any more. I think we can only do our best in seeking God’s will and in seeking to live a life for Him.

The issue about having children is a struggle because I know if he converted, the Catholic church would insist that they be raised Catholic. I don’t understand this because the Bible teaches to raise up a child in the way he should go meaning teach your children to live a life for God and to follow Jesus whole heartedly. I don’t want to raise our future children to be any denomination but to love Jesus whole heartedly and to live lives as his servants…after all a “Christian” by definition is a follower of Christ. I don’t feel the need to add to that. Living a life patterned after Jesus is a great thing to strive for! If my husband presented a commitment to Catholicism by saying “I must raise our children Catholic regardless of your involvement or agreement” I would no longer feel like a team. I want to teach our children together the way God intended. Since we are both Christians who love the Lord and want to teach our children in the best way we possibly can, I feel it is important for us to do it together even with our small differences in beliefs.

I would not feel comfortable with our children being baptized into any one denomination. I don’t feel that is the purpose of baptisms spoken of in the New Testament. People were baptized as a sign of being a Christian. They were not baptized Catholic or Baptist or anything else. My husband and I were both baptized at an age that we could choose to be baptized.

My husband has committed to going to church with me whether he converts or not. We currently go to the church where he first became a believer and where we were married. He occasionally also attends Mass early in the morning before our church service. I have gone with him a couple of times as well. At this point he is not Catholic and we will raise the children in our current church but with a respect for the Catholic faith. My husband does not feel like our children’s souls will be at risk if we do this. He does not want them to have negative feelings toward Catholicism but he does not believe that salvation comes by being Catholic but by being a believer and follower of Jesus. So though he feels drawn to the Catholic faith, he recognizes that I am a believer and that I have salvation through Jesus just as any Catholic who is a follower of Christ…I recognize that Catholics can also have salvation as well.

Catholic communion has already become an issue for us. He has stopped taking communion at our church which was hard for me. My church would never turn away a believer in Christ from participating in communion. This is actually one big reason why I would have a problem with our home church ever being Catholic. I would be excluded from a meaningful part of church life. At our current church we are both welcome to be a part of everything. This is a huge issue for me and a reason why I would never feel comfortable regularly attending Catholic church. I could never truly be an accepted part of the church and I since I don’t agree with much of the doctrine I can not convert.

As for contraception, my husband never expressed a desire for me to discontinue using it. He is not actually Catholic but just studying Catholicism and feels drawn to it. He has never said he thinks it’s wrong. It seems to be one of those grey areas where many Catholics actually do use it. I do know Protestants who also feel birth control is wrong to use. I disagree and I’m not sure my husband would feel it was wrong even if he converted. Anyway, it’s a non-issue because I don’t take it anymore.

I appreciate your prayers. My husband is a wonderful man who is seeking God and in many cases will lie down his own desires to serve me and make sure my needs our met. We are able to pray together and for each other and God is the center of our relationship. Jesus is what holds us together and keeps our marriage alive. Catholic or not, I cannot ask for more than that in a relationship!

I’m sorry if your wife does not have a strong desire to raise your children up to have strong faith in God. Hopefully, by the time you have children, she will have the same desire that you have!

God bless.

Hi FirstLove,

First, I want to say that you are in a very difficult situation and I would not wish it on anybody!

While reading your explanation to Inman, something really stood out to me as to one of the main reasons why Catholocism is so different from many protestant faiths. It’s all about what you feel and how you interpret the Bible. How do you know that yours or your pastor’s interpretation is the correct one?

In Catholocism, since we believe that the Holy Spirit guides the magisterium (teaching office) in Rome in matters of faith and morals, our personal opinions are irrelevant when they disagree. For example, I had a very difficult time with the whole artificial contraception thing - does that make me right and the Church wrong? Hardly! Another example is infant Baptism. Are you aware that every early Church Father believed that Baptism wipes away our sins including original sin? These people were much closer to Jesus and the apostles than we are today, yet so many of us believe that we can read the Bible ourselves (forget the fact that it was not originally written in English and that some of the meaning could be lost because of the difference in culture back 2000 years ago!) and know better than the early Church. And look how many so-called Christian churches out there have no problem with abortion?

We tend to want to make up our own rules instead of allowing someone else to tell us what to do, especially if it inconveniences us. I know it’s a struggle for me sometimes.

One final point - Catholocism has been around for approx 2000 years and, except for the Eastern Orthodox which teaches pretty much the same thing, Protestantism only 500 years or much less, so it wouldn’t hurt to spend some time finding out why the Church teaches what they do on the doctrines you disagree with. You might be surprised! Nothing the Church teaches is arbitrary or a because-I-say-so mentality - it’s all about helping us to stay on the right path to heaven. (If you ever do decide to research Catholic teaching and doctrines, please use sources like “Catholic Answers” or the “Catechism of the Catholic Church” and not other protestants or uncatechised Catholics.)

Please know I’m not being critical in any way since I don’t know where I’d be right now if I wasn’t raised in a devout Catholic home! I could easily be where you are right now!

God bless you,
Delrae

 

[First_Love]

Delraek,
This post was not intended to be a doctrinal debate. I was actually seeking advice in a non-Catholic forum because I was going through something really rough about five months ago. There were a few people who gave me some practical advice on how to deal with this situation…my husband is considering converting and I will not. I was seeking advice and maybe even support how to get through this but I will still respond to you questions/comments.

It is a difficult situation, things have improved dramatically since December. The more my husband seeks God, the more he comes to the conlusion that his primary responsibility is to love me. Even the priest at the local parish has advised him to continue going to church with me and for our marriage to be the priority rather than focusing on converting to Catholicism or raising children to believe Catholicism. I think that it’s because that peticular priest “gets it.” He can see that we are God-fearing Christians who are whole heartedly devoted to serving God. A title (Catholicism) would not change what is already in our hearts.

Most of my comments about how I “feel” about something were specifically about my situation and how it makes me feel…I did not say that I feel a certain way about doctrine or interpretation. Every Catholic will have an opinion about certain doctrine unless they are 100% doing what is told without ever questioning. Sadly, most people I meet that do what they are told without ever studying and seeking God personally are unaware that they can actually have a relationship and that they do not have to go through a religious leader to get to God (that is just in my experience with people I have met…I know this is not always the case).

I will ask you the same question…"how do you KNOW that the Pope or other Catholic leaders are correct? With all that has been added to Catholic ritual and beliefs over the years, how do you know what is correct and what is not? As doctrine changes, were they wrong 100 years ago or are they wrong now? Man is fallible and I think that goes for Catholics and Protestants. As a Protestant (and I know some Catholics who believe this) I believe that the Holy Spirit guides anyone who is a true believer and follower of Christ. The Holy Spirit is not reserved for an elite few. My pastors are not responsible for my relationship with Jesus. They advise me and I take advice from them, but they are not my conduit for communication with God. The Bible is pretty clear on “core issues” in regards to salvation. The issues dividing Catholics and Protestants are not “core issues” that determine salvation from what I have learned and I have been studying Catholicism on and off for the past 8 months.

Augustine and others did not difinitively say that baptism is always necessary for baptism. Also, if baptism was instituted as a way to rid a person of original sin, a man who is baptized would not have original sin or be able to pass on original sin to his children. In that case, it seems the children of those who have been baptized, should not themselves need to be baptized. To me abortion is easy. People who don’t think it’s wrong are either completely selfish or don’t realize there is a life from the time of conception (the Bible says “I knit you together in your mother’s womb”, etc.). I do not want to make up my own rules, believe me! I want to serve God the best way I can. He’s much better at making rules than I am.

I am going to use the “feel” word so as not to offend anyone…I feel that many of the morals presented in Catholicism are right on, but I also feel that some of the rituals are unnecessary for salvation…So why would I perform them if they are unecessary? If they bring you closer to God, then I think you should do them, but I don’t feel an obligation to do something that is not necessary.

As for the idea that Catholocism has been around for approx 2000 years, I have never seen proof that all rituals practiced today were practiced 2000 years ago. I don’t think the church 2000 years ago was like the Catholic church or any Protestant church today. There is variation in every denomination from what Jesus and his disciples practiced.

I have a question for you. Do you think that there is a chance that the only reason you believe what you believe is because you were “raised in a devout Catholic home?” I was raised in a strong Christian family and I credit them with raising me with wonderful values and beliefs, but I had to ask myself why I believe what I believe at one point in my life. I can’t look at my relationship with God as an extension from my parents. They did a lot of good things, but I am responsible for seeking God and seeking truth!

 

[ibkc]

I will ask you the same question…"how do you KNOW that the Pope or other Catholic leaders are correct? With all that has been added to Catholic ritual and beliefs over the years, how do you know what is correct and what is not? As doctrine changes, were they wrong 100 years ago or are they wrong now?

First Love,
Very little in the way of ritual and doctrine has changed. Christians in the first one hundred years after Christ’s death believed and worshiped much the same way we do now. Yes, the details of the liturgy developed over time, but always our worship has been the Liturgy of the Word and the Liturgy of the Eucharist. The many writings of the Early Church Fathers are available to support this. Mike Aquilinas’ The Mass of the Early Christians is an excellent and readable introduction to their writings and how they still apply to Catholic worship 1500 - 2000 years later.

 

[Delraek]

Delraek,

Most of my comments about how I “feel” about something were specifically about my situation and how it makes me feel…I did not say that I feel a certain way about doctrine or interpretation. Every Catholic will have an opinion about certain doctrine unless they are 100% doing what is told without ever questioning. Sadly, most people I meet that do what they are told without ever studying and seeking God personally are unaware that they can actually have a relationship and that they do not have to go through a religious leader to get to God (that is just in my experience with people I have met…I know this is not always the case).

I will ask you the same question…"how do you KNOW that the Pope or other Catholic leaders are correct? With all that has been added to Catholic ritual and beliefs over the years, how do you know what is correct and what is not? As doctrine changes, were they wrong 100 years ago or are they wrong now? Man is fallible and I think that goes for Catholics and Protestants. As a Protestant (and I know some Catholics who believe this) I believe that the Holy Spirit guides anyone who is a true believer and follower of Christ. The Holy Spirit is not reserved for an elite few. My pastors are not responsible for my relationship with Jesus. They advise me and I take advice from them, but they are not my conduit for communication with God. The Bible is pretty clear on “core issues” in regards to salvation. The issues dividing Catholics and Protestants are not “core issues” that determine salvation from what I have learned and I have been studying Catholicism on and off for the past 8 months.

Augustine and others did not difinitively say that baptism is always necessary for baptism. Also, if baptism was instituted as a way to rid a person of original sin, a man who is baptized would not have original sin or be able to pass on original sin to his children. In that case, it seems the children of those who have been baptized, should not themselves need to be baptized. To me abortion is easy. People who don’t think it’s wrong are either completely selfish or don’t realize there is a life from the time of conception (the Bible says “I knit you together in your mother’s womb”, etc.). I do not want to make up my own rules, believe me! I want to serve God the best way I can. He’s much better at making rules than I am.

I am going to use the “feel” word so as not to offend anyone…I feel that many of the morals presented in Catholicism are right on, but I also feel that some of the rituals are unnecessary for salvation…So why would I perform them if they are unecessary? If they bring you closer to God, then I think you should do them, but I don’t feel an obligation to do something that is not necessary.

As for the idea that Catholocism has been around for approx 2000 years, I have never seen proof that all rituals practiced today were practiced 2000 years ago. I don’t think the church 2000 years ago was like the Catholic church or any Protestant church today. There is variation in every denomination from what Jesus and his disciples practiced.

I have a question for you. Do you think that there is a chance that the only reason you believe what you believe is because you were “raised in a devout Catholic home?” I was raised in a strong Christian family and I credit them with raising me with wonderful values and beliefs, but I had to ask myself why I believe what I believe at one point in my life. I can’t look at my relationship with God as an extension from my parents. They did a lot of good things, but I am responsible for seeking God and seeking truth!

Hi First Love,

I’m happy to hear that things are improving for you. There is no perfect solution for your situation.

How do I know that the Catholic leaders are correct? Keep in mind that this only applies to doctrinal matters on faith and morals. The answer is because Jesus said when He left that He would send the Holy Spirit and not leave us orphans. Are you aware the the Catholic Church has never changed doctrine in the 2000 yrs of existence? Doctrine has been added because of truth being revealed, but once a doctrine, always a doctrine.

The Holy Spirit can guide each of us (He sure has helped me out more times than I can count!) but not when it comes to the correct interpretation of Scripture. If that were true, the Holy Spirit would have to be really confused! I have a friend who converted from Catholocism to Baptist and claims that the Holy Spirit guides her when interpreting Scripture, but when I ask her why He is giving out so many different interpretations to different people, she ignores my question.

Here are some quotes from Augustine regarding Baptism:
“It is an excellent thing that the Punic [North African] Christians call baptism salvation and the sacrament of Christ’s body nothing else than life. Whence does this derive, except from an ancient and, as I suppose, apostolic tradition, by which the churches of Christ hold inherently that without baptism and participation at the table of the Lord it is impossible for any man to attain either to the kingdom of God or to salvation and life eternal? This is the witness of Scripture too” (Forgiveness and the Just Deserts of Sin, and the Baptism of Infants 1:24:34 [A.D. 412]).

“The sacrament of baptism is most assuredly the sacrament of regeneration” (ibid., 2:27:43).

“Baptism washes away all, absolutely all, our sins, whether of deed, word, or thought, whether sins original or added, whether knowingly or unknowingly contracted” (Against Two Letters of the Pelagians 3:3:5 [A.D. 420]).

“This is the meaning of the great sacrament of baptism, which is celebrated among us: all who attain to this grace die thereby to sin—as he himself [Jesus] is said to have died to sin because he died in the flesh (that is, ‘in the likeness of sin’)—and they are thereby alive by being reborn in the baptismal font, just as he rose again from the sepulcher. This is the case no matter what the age of the body. For whether it be a newborn infant or a decrepit old man—since no one should be barred from baptism—just so, there is no one who does not die to sin in baptism. Infants die to original sin only; adults, to all those sins which they have added, through their evil living, to the burden they brought with them at birth” (Handbook on Faith, Hope, and Love 13[41] [A.D. 421]).

This a quote by Justin Martyr regarding Sunday worship -150 A.D.:
And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons.

The celebration of the Eucharist really hasn’t changed that much - first, portions of the Bible are read, next the Body and Blood of Christ is received.

In answer to your last question about why I believe what I believe… Unfortunately, I was only taught the “what”, but not the “why”. My parents were devout, but not very well catechised. I have spent a lot of time studying and researching my faith during the last 10 or so years and have been truly inspired and confirmed that this Catholic faith, although full of sinners, is where Jesus wants us all to be. I could never give up the Body, Blood, Soul and Divnity of Jesus in the Eucharist.

I’m very surprised that many of the comments that you made (like the changing of doctrine) are inaccurate - I have to question your sources.

If your husband does eventually convert, it might be extremely helpful for you to know the true history of the Church and what it actually teaches even though you will not be converting. By the way, I am not at all questioning your love for or your relationship with Jesus, just attempting to point out that your denom’s interpretation of Scripture may not be as accurate as you would like to believe…

I do have a question for you: Do you really believe that thousands of different Christian denomations is a good thing?

Anyway, may God bless you and your husband. I really hope the future holds many blessings for you.

Delrae