Mixed "sleep-over"?

[lifeisbeautiful]

And BTW way even if they were in different rooms or building some teens always find a way. I used to work for Franciscan summer conferences and believe me we caught enough high school kids.

Thats what I was thinking.
I think a co-ed sleepover is a bad idea no matter how you put it. Kids that age already have crazy hormones and the last thing they need is temptation like this. I would say no even if it was in different rooms due to both moral and safety issues. A big empty school just seems to allow for too many possibilities.

 

[Convert_in_99]

**:nope: :nope: :nope: :nope: **NO WAY! :nope: :nope: :nope: :nope:

 

[Elzee]

Wow, I am going to be the lone ranger here. I chaperoned a trip to Washington DC for my daughters Catholic High School. Our accommodations were in a gym with the boys on one side and the girls on the other. We had 47 kids and about 10-12 chaperone’s. Including men and women, teachers and priests… these were 14-17 yo boys and girls. Trust me, the kids didn’t dream of getting out of line with all us adults there!!! We had bigger problems with them using cell phones at late hours than anything else.

If you are uneasy about it, we put folding tables down the center of the gym and clearly set the boundries from the very beginning.

Since this was a Catholic High School, does your diocese allow this per their guidelines? I was going to check my diocese based on a previous post.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Just adding my** NO**. I would go one better- I would call the diocese youth ministry myself and state that my child is involved in a parish youth group, and what are the diocese regulations for overnights of mixed gender groups. I would ask for a paper copy of them, and offer to pick them up myself, or have them faxed to me. I would make an extra copy, give it to the HEAD youth minister.

And if this was happening in my parish, if the youth minister did nothing, and if the pastor and DRE did nothing- I would make a HUGE thermos of coffee, volunteer my services as chaperone (I’ve been through PGC and am a second level catechist), and park myself at the “border” between the boys’ and girls’ sleeping areas.

 

[Elzee]

Just adding my** NO**. I would go one better- I would call the diocese youth ministry myself and state that my child is involved in a parish youth group, and what are the diocese regulations for overnights of mixed gender groups. I would ask for a paper copy of them, and offer to pick them up myself, or have them faxed to me. I would make an extra copy, give it to the HEAD youth minister.

And if this was happening in my parish, if the youth minister did nothing, and if the pastor and DRE did nothing- I would make a HUGE thermos of coffee, volunteer my services as chaperone (I’ve been through PGC and am a second level catechist), and park myself at the “border” between the boys’ and girls’ sleeping areas.

I guess my overriding concern is just endorsing the concept that it’s okay for boys and girls to sleep in the same room, regardless of any ‘borders’ that are set up. It is all part of the numbing of society in my opinion. In 6th grade I would have thought it very odd and UNCOMFORTABLE to sleep in the same room as a boy - even a gym. Now, it appears to be no big deal to kids. That worries me. It’s not getting a clear message of modesty across to our children at this very young and impressionable pre-teen age.

I’m not saying there is not a chance of boys going over to the girsl side and vice versa, but I think the chance of anything physical happening with this group of kids and with the adults there is slim to none. My main concern is we are planting a seed in our children’s minds that ‘this is okay’. Then when they’re older, I can see them saying - why can’t we all sleep in the basement after prom one night - we’ll be on separate sides of the room? It’s just not a path I think a church should endorse.

For the record, an evangelical friend of mine is involved heavily with their youth ministry - her response- NOT IN MY CHURCH! And we Catholics are supposedly the lead advocates when it comes to chastity…just thought that was interesting.

 

[chevalier]

There might be some agenda in the idea of making the sleep-over mixed instead of separate. As has been pointed out, this is not so much a sexual issue. I would say privacy. I don’t think the kids themselves would like the idea. I don’t think it’s right to play the “one big family” thing and have kids run around in pyjamas. Besides, while it’s not actually such a sexual issue, it’s not like kids at that age don’t have ideas. They would have to be watched anyway. So it’s better to split them up and prevent communication between the two groups.

And if there’s any agenda in the idea, it had better be reviewed.

 

[Elzee]

There might be some agenda in the idea of making the sleep-over mixed instead of separate. As has been pointed out, this is not so much a sexual issue. I would say privacy. I don’t think the kids themselves would like the idea. I don’t think it’s right to play the “one big family” thing and have kids run around in pyjamas. Besides, while it’s not actually such a sexual issue, it’s not like kids at that age don’t have ideas. They would have to be watched anyway. So it’s better to split them up and prevent communication between the two groups.

And if there’s any agenda in the idea, it had better be reviewed.

“Privacy” - thank you - that’s the word I couldn’t come up with.
Can you expand on what you mean by there might be some agenda? Thanks!

 

[BlestOne]

Since this was a Catholic High School, does your diocese allow this per their guidelines? I was going to check my diocese based on a previous post.

If the number of forms I had to sign is any indication, the answer is YES! For me to chaperon this trip we had to sign our lives away! At their HS they take a yearly trip to Rome too, but there they stay in hotels.

People… look at the numbers I gave. Each chaperon had 4 kids to watch for the weekend. Only one group of girls even tried to disobey their chaperon…at that was at a Youth Rally with 4000 other kids, and I got to bust them (thankfully, they weren’t my girls) going outside to have a snowball fight when they were supposed to be inside… they never made it out the door, I just gave them the “mom” look and they turned around and went back in the auditorium.

Maybe we just have a great group of kids but they were awesome. As soon as we left they asked the chaplain to lead us in the rosary… not your average kids I guess. Besides, there was only one boyfriend/girlfriend couple there and the girls mom was a chaperon.

Did I mention this was a gym attached to a church center? We often didn’t get back there until after 9 or 10 pm and had to be out the door at 7 am… the kids knew to sleep when we were there.

This really surprises me considering I am one of the most over protective parents I know. I can’t believe there are so many of you that have no trust in your own parenting. If you instill morals in them, you have to let them test them out some time. I think that a Catholic school sponsored event is much better than a public school or other group for this type of thing.

 

[Elzee]

I

This really surprises me considering I am one of the most over protective parents I know. I can’t believe there are so many of you that have no trust in your own parenting. If you instill morals in them, you have to let them test them out some time. I think that a Catholic school sponsored event is much better than a public school or other group for this type of thing.

As I said in a previous post, I guess I’m not as worried about anything physical happening or not trusting the kids…My initial reaction was that of a church just promoting the ‘concept’ that this is okay and the beginning of a ‘numbing’ effect. It doesn’t seem like an appropriate arrangement, regardless of the number of chaperones, how good the kids are, etc. From *that *perspective, do you think there is any reason for concern?

 

[Mirdath]

I would venture that there’s no chance of a numbing effect, so much as a traumatizing one, that could make the transition to adulthood even more painful and scary than it is. By that age, as some of the other posters have mentioned, many of the kids are already going through such upsetting phenomena as morning wood (etc…), periods, acne, you name it, not to mention the fear and sometimes inadequacy the ‘late-bloomers’ feel. I wouldn’t really think the kids would do anything wrong (sure, it’s possible, but I doubt very likely) so much as be terrified and hurt, feeling exposed and shamed. It’s rough enough dealing with kids of one’s own sex, or anyone at all, during that time.

Heck, I’d say it’d be a less terrible thing to have such an event when the group is maybe sixteen, though still not particularly advisable. By that age, at least the kids have a better sense of identity and are at least in the process of coming to terms with their fledgling-adult bodies and minds and hopefully what proper conduct is now that childhood is mostly behind them. Tsk, I’m pretty appalled by the proposed ‘sleepover’ in the OP.

 

[lizaanne]

I can’t believe there are so many of you that have no trust in your own parenting. If you instill morals in them, you have to let them test them out some time. I think that a Catholic school sponsored event is much better than a public school or other group for this type of thing.

For me, it’s not so much about trust as it is about what is right and appropriate behavior for unmarried people of the opposite sex.

As an adult, I would never see it as acceptable or proper for me to sleep in a room with a man I was not married to. I don’t care if we were on opposite sides of the room. It’s just not appropriate, and opens the situation to possible scandal. The number of people present does not change this dynamic.

Boys and girls need their own sleeping quarters. Period. Nothing wrong with the all night event, but when it’s time to go to bed, bed means not in the same room. If that can’t happen, then the event needs to be restructured so it’s not an overnight.

~Liza

 

[BlestOne]

As I said in a previous post, I guess I’m not as worried about anything physical happening or not trusting the kids…My initial reaction was that of a church just promoting the ‘concept’ that this is okay and the beginning of a ‘numbing’ effect. It doesn’t seem like an appropriate arrangement, regardless of the number of chaperones, how good the kids are, etc. From *that *perspective, do you think there is any reason for concern?

At the ages mentioned in the first post, I would say it is have to say it depends on the kids and their maturity level and geographic location. I live out in rural Illinois, where alot of the kids are farm kids and don’t get to town too often. Our kids tend to lead very sheltered lives in that respect. Our grade school has lock-in’s for the 7th and 8th grades here too. We have had some good times, but in years previous to my kids years there was a problem with one or 2 students. All parents are informed of any thing that happens so it really isn’t a problem. Now, our public schools here are horrible, and I wouldn’t even let my kids go to the 3 hour dances after I saw the behavior there. But then, this is why I transfered my kids anyway.

As for the numbing effect, I think it has alot to do with how the parents present it to the kids. If it is a fun, stay up all night and eat pizza kind of thing, the kids will see it that way too. But if parents voice their concerns about so-and-so or “that” kid’s behavior, the kids will be looking for and expecting some sort of bad behavior. If you are concerned the best thing to do is to chaperon the event. Then you can keep your child safe while you check out how it goes. Then you can gauge how many such events a kid should attend. I think kids get more damaged from just watching TV with the junk on these days. Now that is numbing!!! Even on shows like CSI, they can’t seem to get away from sexualizing our kids… such a shame!

 

[kage_ar]

As I said in a previous post, I guess I’m not as worried about anything physical happening or not trusting the kids…My initial reaction was that of a church just promoting the ‘concept’ that this is okay and the beginning of a ‘numbing’ effect. It doesn’t seem like an appropriate arrangement, regardless of the number of chaperones, how good the kids are, etc. From *that *perspective, do you think there is any reason for concern?

Please call your Diocese and see what the regulations are for Youth activities. If this youth minister is violating the regulations of the Diocese, someone needs to be AWARE!!!

 

[ltbpoe43]

Agree with most other posters here (especially kage er)

1. too much liability - who are these parents watching my kids
2. have all parents been properly trained and vetted by the diocese as approved by the diocese regs?
3. too much peer pressure on 11/12 yo kids
4. Is it really necessary to teach youth lessons?
5. if its in a local gym - that means you can get there by car so you can end late and start early the next day - bring donuts

I think the most important thing for the youth director to know is that by adding the element of a sleepover - I really do think the message and power of the teaching is lost in all that distraction of seeing girls and boys in pj’s in close proximity (What are you gonna wear?) It could be detrimental to some at that age.

I would not let my son/daughter participate. I would pick them up at 10:00pm (or before lockdown time) and bring them back in the morning if they wanted to go. Maybe.

 

[Lovemyfaith]

Our parish does a youth group (teens 9th-12th grade) trip to Appalachia every summer. The kids stay in a parish gym, boys, and girls together. My children are not allowed to participate in that trip. When my child questioned our Parish Youth Minister whether other sleeping arrangements could be made, thinking the reason they slept in the gym together was because there was no place else to sleep, the Youth Minister said sleeping together was all part of the fun.

 

[duskyjewel]

Agree with most other posters here (especially kage er)

1. too much liability - who are these parents watching my kids
2. have all parents been properly trained and vetted by the diocese as approved by the diocese regs?

Yeah, these really caught my attention. You can’t count on other parents, even other parents who call themselves Catholic, to discourage or prevent illicit sexual behavior. For all you know, these are the numbskulls providing alcohol and condoms at your teenagers’ parties. There are many parents who do that, thinking “it’s better if they do it here where they are safe, cuz they’re gonna do it anyway!”

From myself and my husband, this would get a “not only no, but HELL no!” And honestly, I’m pretty sure my kids would know before they ever asked me that I would say no to this.

 

[chevalier]

“Privacy” - thank you - that’s the word I couldn’t come up with.
Can you expand on what you mean by there might be some agenda? Thanks!

By agenda I meant that someone seemed to want such an arrangement. That is, it didn’t start with a problem being solved. The solution predated the problem, so to say.

So, if someone specifically wants a mixed sleep-over, that means the person has a reason for it. He may like the idea. Or he may want to make a statement - “we’re all buddies”, “it can be done without violating chastity”, “we are not prudes”. Or he may believe it’s healthy for the children in some way. Or that it contributes to their development.

My chief problem with it all is the solution predating the problem, actually. I’m very distrustful towards ulterior motives and I have a near-paranoid sense for those. I think I would ask the person about the real motives of preferring that arrangement. If the person were unable to provide a concrete answer, I would conclude that it were a drive, a desire, something emotional and unexplained. That’s also an agenda. I would then ask the person to think again and again and help (unintrusively) discover the real cause of wanting that, and then deal with it.

Note that it’s perfectly possible that there are practical reasons for such an arrangement, so the author or the person in charge may simply be reluctant to change an already accepted idea, especially if he’s the author. That’s only human.

As I said in a previous post, I guess I’m not as worried about anything physical happening or not trusting the kids…My initial reaction was that of a church just promoting the ‘concept’ that this is okay and the beginning of a ‘numbing’ effect. It doesn’t seem like an appropriate arrangement, regardless of the number of chaperones, how good the kids are, etc. From *that *perspective, do you think there is any reason for concern?

Yeah, you sense it too. It’s a bit like doing it because it’s okay to do. And it’s okay to do because it’s not wrong. So, in brief, that’s doing it because it’s not wrong. In my opinion, a deficient cause. It’s just not a reason, it’s like “exercising liberty” for the sake of it.

Also, if any of the children has a problem with the idea, enforcement is morally questionable. If a child feels exposed walking in pyjamas or falling asleep in the presence of the other sex, ordering the child to play along pretty much amounts to coercion and is most likely traumatising. If the event involved co-ed walking around in towels or underwear or something like that, and someone didn’t want to do that but were forced to, it wouldn’t be far from sexual coercion (just the coercion part, no gratification intended etc). A person’s sexuality can be hurt without a sexual intent. Kids’ sexualities are very fragile. It’s all about identity at that age.

 

[Sarabande]

I agree with everyone here. I believe it sends the wrong message to the children with what is ok. I don’t have children yet, but I would never allow my children to have a co-ed sleepover in the same room. There are just too many problems that could arise.

My mother was very “strict” with parties, dances, dating, etc. especially prior to high school. At the time, with the exception of dating (I thought dating was silly as a teenager, since I didn’t want to get myself too involved with boys at that time), I thought my mother was being unfair. But I have come to understand her wisdom as I’ve gotten older.

 

[rpp]

This does not sit right with me.

I think I will echo what many others have said. If I had children in that age group, I would not let them participate. More than that, I would seriously question first this youth leader then the pastor for allowing this to go on. This would never be permitted in years past. This is the influence of the modern sick and sex-obsessed culture.

This youth leader is utterly wrong to suggest it. It almost makes me wonder what his real motives are. Is he gay? Homosexuals are famous for doing ths kind of thing; eroding and corrupting the innocence of young people.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

I guess my overriding concern is just endorsing the concept that it’s okay for boys and girls to sleep in the same room, regardless of any ‘borders’ that are set up. It is all part of the numbing of society in my opinion. In 6th grade I would have thought it very odd and UNCOMFORTABLE to sleep in the same room as a boy - even a gym. Now, it appears to be no big deal to kids. That worries me. It’s not getting a clear message of modesty across to our children at this very young and impressionable pre-teen age.

I’m not saying there is not a chance of boys going over to the girsl side and vice versa, but I think the chance of anything physical happening with this group of kids and with the adults there is slim to none. My main concern is we are planting a seed in our children’s minds that ‘this is okay’. Then when they’re older, I can see them saying - why can’t we all sleep in the basement after prom one night - we’ll be on separate sides of the room? It’s just not a path I think a church should endorse.

For the record, an evangelical friend of mine is involved heavily with their youth ministry - her response- NOT IN MY CHURCH! And we Catholics are supposedly the lead advocates when it comes to chastity…just thought that was interesting.

I would volunteer to chaperone because I am a crumudgeon and no fun- at least not for teenagers. I make Maxine of Hallmark Cards fame look positively perky. If, after I went through the work of informing these youth ministers that this was a bad idea, to the extent I described, and they still proceeded with the plan- Well, I would not be spending the weekend with a teenager who might be miserable. I would inflict such pain on the youth ministry staff, and I would not be a pleasant individual- not nasty, just grumpy and ready to stop any of this “fun”; in short, I think that if I chaperoned they would not try this again.

And my daughter would stay home. I would be the one in attendance.