Modern rabbinic Judaism, Deut.13:1-5 and Yeshua

[inJESUS]

But if a Jew breaks one, it is not anywhere near the same as if (chas ve’sholom) he breaks an actual Torah Law. Any Orthodox rabbi will tell you that.

where is the actual Torah law that prohibts eating on the sabbath out of necessity?

 

[HashemEchad]

Im not bashing anything here nor offended.

Remember this topic is about the use of Deut 13 view to refute Jesus.

Well, you were ridiculing Orthodox Judaism because we have so many rules and regulations, yet traditional Catholicism has quite possibly an equal number, judging from the Code of Canon Law.

Wasn’t the old joke that the Jesuits used to sit around debating how many angels could dance on the head of a pin? Sounds not unlike the rabbinic tradition of pilpul!

 

[Lev23]

Yet Christians have seen fit to do away with the 7th day Sabbath ALTOGETHER in their religion.

That just goes to show that when you make exceptions here and there, sooner or later you get rid of the entire thing.

Those things like sabbath and the Feasts are a good thing, they are shadows of things to come, which already came, that is Yeshua. Our Sabbath rest is in him.

 

[inJESUS]

inJESUS;3757054:

HashemEchad;3756541:

inJESUS;3756106:

It depends on whether or not they TRULY ARE from God. If a vision tells a Jew to do something contrary to Torah or to follow another religion, he can be CERTAIN it is not from Hashem (God.)

thats if it is indeed contrary to what God says.

As to miracles, do you believe that someone who is not from God can raise the dead?

of course yu will tell me these are written in the NT in which you do not believe, but do you think Jews will invent them to convince themselves about Jesus and then die for their lie?

 

[inJESUS]

inJESUS;3757111:

this is not relevant to our thread.

how did you know the circumstances?

if you get hungry on the sabbath, for whatver reason, what do you do? if circumstances happened that you could not prepare food, what do you do? you starve?

as a labor, i understand it…you must not labor, do business ecc…but to eat ?

of course it does. It proves that the sabbath is not a torture, it can be amended out of necessity and God will not get angry at it. I think God will get angry when you turn the sabbath into a spirit-less commandmant of do and do not, and hence become slaves of it when the sabbath is very beautiful and spiritual commandmant made for man.

 

[HashemEchad]

where is the actual Torah law that prohibts eating on the sabbath out of necessity?

Jews were commanded to prepare a DOUBLE PORTION on Friday so they WOULD NOT run out of food on the Sabbath.

 

[inJESUS]

Jews were commanded to prepare a DOUBLE PORTION on Friday so they WOULD NOT run out of food on the Sabbath.

this does not answer my question. Where is the Law that says you cannot eat out of necessity? if, for WHATEVER reason you could not, where is the law that says you better starve?

 

[Valke2]

there is a prohibition against cutting. And harvesting involved cutting. Almost all the laws involving how to obey the Sabbath are found in the Talmud. Jesus knew he was breaking the law. It looks as if he wanted to provoke the Pharasees.

The double portion law that Hashemechad is referring to, I think, has to do with the collection of manna.

 

[HashemEchad]

there is a prohibition against cutting. And harvesting involved cutting. Almost all the laws involving how to obey the Sabbath are found in the Talmud. Jesus knew he was breaking the law. It looks as if he wanted to provoke the Pharasees.

That’s what I always thought.

 

[Valke2]

this does not answer my question. Where is the Law that says you cannot eat out of necessity? if, for WHATEVER reason you could not, where is the law that says you better starve?

do you think the life of Jesus or his followers was in danger on that shabbat?

 

[Yerusalyim]

This whole “plagerism” excuse is weaker than a wet paper bag. This is just another lie taught to people why they should not believe Jesus is Messiah.

No, almost every concept Jesus taught is found in Talmudic Judaism…as it should be…Christ was not giving us NEW teaching, but explaining the original.

 

[Yerusalyim]

inJESUS;3757111:

Ya gotta remember, the Sabbath law is for Jews, not Gentiles…by the time Sabbath observence went away most Christians had no roots in Judaism.

 

[Yerusalyim]

Well, you were ridiculing Orthodox Judaism because we have so many rules and regulations, yet traditional Catholicism has quite possibly an equal number, judging from the Code of Canon Law.

Wasn’t the old joke that the Jesuits used to sit around debating how many angels could dance on the head of a pin? Sounds not unlike the rabbinic tradition of pilpul!

Not a good comparison…canon law and Mitzvot are on two entirely different levels. The Church does NOT make the claim that Canon law is God’s mandate.

 

[Valke2]

Not a good comparison…canon law and Mitzvot are on two entirely different levels. The Church does NOT make the claim that Canon law is God’s mandate.

how we are to implement the mitzvot is most often found in the Talmud and I think that a compariasion to how a Jew implements his/her faith – set forth in the Talmud and the rabbis – and how a Catholic implements his/her faith – subject to and guided by Canon law, is a fair comparision for the purpose of highlighting the practical aspects of each religion.

 

[Yerusalyim]

how we are to implement the mitzvot is most often found in the Talmud and I think that a compariasion to how a Jew implements his/her faith – set forth in the Talmud and the rabbis – and how a Catholic implements his/her faith – subject to and guided by Canon law, is a fair comparision for the purpose of highlighting the practical aspects of each religion.

A point we’ll disagree upon, the Church claims no divine guidance on Canon law in and of itself.

 

[Valke2]

A point we’ll disagree upon, the Church claims no divine guidance on Canon law in and of itself.

and the majority of the text in the Talmud is commentary by rabbis.

 

[Yerusalyim]

and the majority of the text in the Talmud is commentary by rabbis.

Ask six rabbis, you’ll get 14 opinions.

 

[Lev23]

Jews were commanded to prepare a DOUBLE PORTION on Friday so they WOULD NOT run out of food on the Sabbath.

Again, it all comes down to that prophet like Moses that was raised up from among his bretheren, who was Yeshua. The people were to listen to him, but most did not, which was prophesied also.

Yeshua said it brillantly when he said-
"The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath."----Mark 2:27.

 

[Valke2]

Again, it all comes down to that prophet like Moses that was raised up from among his bretheren, who was Yeshua. The people were to listen to him, but most did not, which was prophesied also.

Yeshua said it brillantly when he said-
"The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath."----Mark 2:27.

Mark seems to have gotten it a little backwards. But that’s ok. THe Sabbath was and is holy with or without man.

If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it. (Isaiah 58:13-14)

Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them. But the house of Israel rebelled against me in the wilderness: they walked not in my statutes, and they despised my judgments, which if a man do, he shall even live in them; and my sabbaths they greatly polluted: then I said, I would pour out my fury upon them in the wilderness, to consume them. Because they despised my judgments, and walked not in my statutes, but polluted my sabbaths: for their heart went after their idols.(Ezekiel 20:12, 13, 16)

 

[inJESUS]

there is a prohibition against cutting. And harvesting involved cutting.

in the Bible or interpretations? for business/labor or any reason? again, is it in the Bible ot interpretations?

Almost all the laws involving how to obey the Sabbath are found in the Talmud.