I
inJESUS
Guest
no, but do you think they should have starved because of the sabbath ?
- Status
I
inJESUS
Guest
If the highest commandmant is to love your God and your neighbor, that is, love and mercy and charity, exactly the love and mercy and charity Jews should be living after being freed from slavery, where do these 2 commandmants apply when you judge and criticize someone who allowed hungry people to eat on the sabbath? where does love and mercy and charity apply when you deprive someone hungry from eating because it is the sabbath? isn’t the sabbath a sign of God’s mercy and love and charity? what purpose will it accomplish if it becomes devoid of it in the name of God?
H
HashemEchad
Guest
If Jesus had been smart enough to collect the double portion as was required, there would have been no danger of him starving!
Besides, don’t you believe he is divine? How can a god “starve” anyway (or die, for that matter…)
I
inJESUS
Guest
H
HashemEchad
Guest
I
inJESUS
Guest
V
Valke2
Guest
V
Valke2
Guest
Starving implies they were in mortal danger. So if they were starving, then they would not be violating a commandment by plucking grain.
L
Lev23
Guest
Psalm 2
Why do the nations conspire
and the peoples plot in vain?
The kings of the earth take their stand
and the rulers gather together
against the LORD
and against his Anointed One.
“Let us break their chains,” they say,
“and throw off their fetters.”
The One enthroned in heaven laughs;
the Lord scoffs at them.
Then he rebukes them in his anger
and terrifies them in his wrath, saying,
“I have installed my King
on Zion, my holy hill.”
I will proclaim the decree of the LORD :
He said to me, "You are my Son ;
today I have become your Father.
Ask of me,
and I will make the nations your inheritance,
the ends of the earth your possession.
You will rule them with an iron scepter;
you will dash them to pieces like pottery."
Therefore, you kings, be wise;
be warned, you rulers of the earth.
**Serve the LORD with fear
and rejoice with trembling.
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry
and you be destroyed in your way,
for his wrath can flare up in a moment.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.**
John 4:21-24
**Jesus declared, “**Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”
S
St_Aloysius
Guest
To say Jesus “stole” Talmudic interpretations is an unfair accusation. Christ interprets in a tradition and manner that was at once in agreement with many of the rabbis and teachers before him–and very much in line with Pharisean thought–and yet simultaneously revolutionary.
It was nothing new to say ‘worship God and love your neighbor.’ It was the profound way in which Our Lord applied these teachings that makes him stand out. How telling are the Hebrew Scriptures of God’s love for the alien and the stranger, the orphan and the widow–and his mercy toward those in need! It is no wonder his demands for justice and equanimity were so constant. It is only fitting that Christ, if divine in origin as he so boldly claims, should then seek out the marginalized and neglected in society, to love them and heal them. This work, this is divine. This is what is most telling.
Imagine if you will Yahweh anthropomorphized, kneeling down to meet the outcast, to heal the leper, to meet with and assure his People, Israel, in their time of distress.
This is how the Christian sees Jesus. Transfigurations and miracles are great–but they are not enough to invite unreserved trust in one man or his teaching. Only his actions, his mitzvahs, and his fidelity to the God of Truth are adequate proofs.
If his actions tell of divine love, and if his essence is indeed that of the Father as our doctrine holds, then the Christian is justified in his reading of verses like Deut. 13:1-5. But a Jew does not hold this. So the quarrels continue… and simply do not end. The theological debates between Christians and Jews are irrelevant. We may both quote the same Scriptures and hold different readings. All our arguments boil down to the philosophical and psychological underpinnings of both Christian and Jewish belief, and they concern the nature of the divine and his relationship with man. No small subject.
To the Jew, Yahweh, the great I AM, is still Beyond and Above. He is to be revered and worshiped and feared. Humans are to recognize their own inadequacy before him. To the Christian, God is Within and About. There is something deep within that assures man of his divine origins, of that celestial spark (so to speak) within him–telling, revealing, that the gap between the human and the divine is not so great as once imagined, and so the Catholic sees the Incarnation as God’s invitation to man to participate in, and to partake of, the Infinite. It is a blurring, an obscuring, of the divisions we once drew.
Yet if we are honest, it is only in integrating these opposites that the divine Mystery’s grandeur is fully revealed.
So the essence of our belief systems is the selfsame, but each with its own emphasis and approach.
It was nothing new to say ‘worship God and love your neighbor.’ It was the profound way in which Our Lord applied these teachings that makes him stand out. How telling are the Hebrew Scriptures of God’s love for the alien and the stranger, the orphan and the widow–and his mercy toward those in need! It is no wonder his demands for justice and equanimity were so constant. It is only fitting that Christ, if divine in origin as he so boldly claims, should then seek out the marginalized and neglected in society, to love them and heal them. This work, this is divine. This is what is most telling.
Imagine if you will Yahweh anthropomorphized, kneeling down to meet the outcast, to heal the leper, to meet with and assure his People, Israel, in their time of distress.
This is how the Christian sees Jesus. Transfigurations and miracles are great–but they are not enough to invite unreserved trust in one man or his teaching. Only his actions, his mitzvahs, and his fidelity to the God of Truth are adequate proofs.
If his actions tell of divine love, and if his essence is indeed that of the Father as our doctrine holds, then the Christian is justified in his reading of verses like Deut. 13:1-5. But a Jew does not hold this. So the quarrels continue… and simply do not end. The theological debates between Christians and Jews are irrelevant. We may both quote the same Scriptures and hold different readings. All our arguments boil down to the philosophical and psychological underpinnings of both Christian and Jewish belief, and they concern the nature of the divine and his relationship with man. No small subject.
To the Jew, Yahweh, the great I AM, is still Beyond and Above. He is to be revered and worshiped and feared. Humans are to recognize their own inadequacy before him. To the Christian, God is Within and About. There is something deep within that assures man of his divine origins, of that celestial spark (so to speak) within him–telling, revealing, that the gap between the human and the divine is not so great as once imagined, and so the Catholic sees the Incarnation as God’s invitation to man to participate in, and to partake of, the Infinite. It is a blurring, an obscuring, of the divisions we once drew.
Yet if we are honest, it is only in integrating these opposites that the divine Mystery’s grandeur is fully revealed.
So the essence of our belief systems is the selfsame, but each with its own emphasis and approach.
H
HashemEchad
Guest
Aloysius: The problem is not that Jesus copied statements from other rabbis in Jewish teaching.
The problem is that he did so without giving credit where credit was due. In rabbinic writings, this is never done because it is seen as plagiarism (stealing the words of another.)
The problem is that he did so without giving credit where credit was due. In rabbinic writings, this is never done because it is seen as plagiarism (stealing the words of another.)
H
HashemEchad
Guest
And now, for the correct Jewish interpretation:Psalm 2
Why do the nations conspire
and the peoples plot in vain?
The kings of the earth take their stand
and the rulers gather together
against the LORD
and against his Anointed One.
“Let us break their chains,” they say,
“and throw off their fetters.”
The One enthroned in heaven laughs;
the Lord scoffs at them.
Then he rebukes them in his anger
and terrifies them in his wrath, saying,
“I have installed my King
on Zion, my holy hill.”
I will proclaim the decree of the LORD :
He said to me, "You are my Son ;
today I have become your Father.
Ask of me,
and I will make the nations your inheritance,
the ends of the earth your possession.
You will rule them with an iron scepter;
you will dash them to pieces like pottery."
Therefore, you kings, be wise;
be warned, you rulers of the earth.
**Serve the LORD with fear
and rejoice with trembling.
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry
and you be destroyed in your way,
for his wrath can flare up in a moment.
Blessed are all who take refuge in him.**
John 4:21-24
**Jesus declared, “**Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”
messiahtruth.com/psal2.html
N
Nickkname
Guest
You know what’s so funny about Jews claiming Jesus was not a prophet because prophesy had come to an end long before he appeared on Earth? I’d like them to reason how the Messiah will be a prophet if prophesy has already ended. Unless, of course, they don’t expect a Messiah to come.
H
HashemEchad
Guest
We understand the goal and duties of the Messiah differently than Christians. For one thing, we never believed in a divine Messiah, Christianity is the religion that developed that concept.
V
Valke2
Guest
It’s a good question. I’m not sure if the Messiah will be a prophet. He’ll be the Messiah.
N
Nickkname
Guest
And yet I’m not using Christianity’s understanding of the Messiha. I’m using Judaism’s. Judaism says the Messiah must be a prophet. Yet it also says there is no more prophesy. So either there is prophesy and Jesus was a prophet, or else there is no prophesy and Jesus was not a prophet and the Messiah will not be a prophet - in which case, according to Judaism, there will not be a Messiah.
H
HashemEchad
Guest
Where does Judaism say the Messiah MUST be a prophet?
What’s more, even if it did, Jesus was a false prophet because some of what he foretold did not happen.
N
Nickkname
Guest
Oh, I don’t know, maybe simpletoremember.com/vitals/jewsandjesus.htm#2? To quote:
- JESUS DID NOT EMBODY THE PERSONAL QUALIFICATIONS OF MESSIAH (back)
Jesus was not a prophet. Prophecy can only exist in Israel when the land is inhabited by a majority of world Jewry. During the time of Ezra (circa 300 BCE), when the majority of Jews refused to move from Babylon to Israel, prophecy ended upon the death of the last prophets – Haggai, Zechariah and Malachi.
Jesus appeared on the scene approximately 350 years after prophecy had ended.
V
Valke2
Guest
Considering that the Messiah will hereld in the Messianiac Age, what is left to phrophesy about. Also,even if what you say is correct, it does not lead to the conclusion that Jesus was a prophet. But if you have a source for the belief that the Messiah will be a prophet, I’d like to see it.
N
Nickkname
Guest
Also, please tell me which prophesies he made did not happen.
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